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Just found out that the Emperor constantly gobbles on the souls of imperial psykers...

WTF???

That's been in the fluff since the very beginning. Honestly, I wish the Horus Heresy series wouldn't keep trying to portrayal the genocidal tyrant and self-proclaimed God as such a nice guy.

 LoneLictor wrote:
That's been in the fluff since the very beginning. Honestly, I wish the Horus Heresy series wouldn't keep trying to portrayal the genocidal tyrant and self-proclaimed God as such a nice guy.

You must not have been reading the Horus Heresy series then, because it doesn't portray him as a nice guy.

It is the older, Index Astartesy fluff that portrays the Emperor as a nice guy.

I mean I always knew the imperium was horrid and such but the Emperor-man himself? Beggars belief... This is why I'm a heretic

The Emperor eats the souls of psykers so that he can maintain the Astronomicon, which makes Imperial space travel possible and helps him keep Chaos from flooding the galaxy.

It is a necessary evil.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
The Emperor eats the souls of psykers so that he can maintain the Astronomicon, which makes Imperial space travel possible and helps him keep Chaos from flooding the galaxy.

It is a necessary evil.

Apparently he also does it so he doesn't get hungry...

The BRB wrote:
the Emperor cannot eat as men eat, or drink or breathe air. His life has long since passed beyond the point where such things can sustain him and the only viable sustenance for the Emperor is human life force - souls - and he has an insatiable appetite.

Again, that's done simply to keep him alive. The bit about his "appetite" isn't so much that he devours psychic power because he's hungry, more a fanciful way of saying that the Astronomican is kept permanently active through him as he siphons and properly focuses the power of the psykers who fuel it.

Yeah but it says that the ones he uses to fuel the astronomican are different to the ones he nomnoms for nutrition could the entire might of the imperium really find no other way to fuel him other than psyker-souls?

Yep, the Imperium is not a good place, and it's not just the Emperor. When you look at their approach to other races, or even any humans who don't want to serve the Emperor, as well as what little we learn about the government's control of the various parts of life and the economy it's really, shockingly Facist.

The writers attempt to justify it by telling us that in the 40k universe the Emperor is mankinds only hope. Still, it seems to me that the empire is equal parts 3rd Reich Nazism, and the worst parts of Medieval Western European culture.

I do enjoy much of 40k fluff and some of the novels and many of them do present Imperial charachters who are "good". However I'm not deceived enough to think of the Imperium as a whole as "Good Guys".

Yeah I do like the whole grimdark stuff and the way mankind is portrayed, but I always figured that it was simply because ol' Empy wasn't around to sort stuff out
The more you know eh?

Tactical_Genius wrote:Yeah but it says that the ones he uses to fuel the astronomican are different to the ones he nomnoms for nutrition

Where do you read that?

This isn't about nutrition. If it was just that, they'd simply plug him into some machine and pump nutrients directly into his dessicating body. Which they probably do anyways. This is about the Emperor (apparently) relying on the absorption of the psychic energy of humans born with the psyker-gene, who have at times been described as being chained into a monumental "choir" where their psychic focus is sapped until they are literally burnt out, the lifeless husks to be replaced by the next captive. The "undead" Emperor is apparently incapable of summoning this psychic energy by himself, so he is relegated to the role of a beacon, tapping these human batteries and directing their energies into the Astronomican.

Or, to propose a more grim version, the Emperor is long dead, and all those psykers sacrificed day by day are just to feed the Astronomican directly, which is nothing but a very complicated machine that bundles the psychic energy of whoever sits underneath it, and all those psykers just don't happen to have the same psychic potential as the Emperor once did, so they can't cope with the stress.

And to be fair, the Emperor may well not have had any sort of influence over the entire subject. This system was set up after he was interred in the Golden Throne, so .. blame the High Lords and/or the AdMech.

Also, don't take the fluff literal. Read between the lines. It often sounds a lot less ridiculous that way (unless you really find it that awesome and totally believable that Leman Russ had a sword that carves entire mountains in half for example), and you may arrive at theories that are just plain horrible but would fit right into this dystopian setting.

 Lynata wrote:

Tactical_Genius wrote:Yeah but it says that the ones he uses to fuel the astronomican are different to the ones he nomnoms for nutrition

Where do you read that?

BRB p.160 wrote:
Only the Emperor's mind is powerful enough to survive
directing the raw forces supplied by the servants of the Adeptus
Astronomica to shape the psychic beacon of the Astronomican.
The same survivability does not hold true for those members of
the Adeptus Astronomica themselves, for their fate is a sad one.
The efforts of generating so much mental energy soon destroys
them, leeching their souls and reducing them to empty husks.
Many die every day, but they are not the only psykers who are
asked to make the ultimate sacrifice, for the Emperor cannot eat
as men eat, or drink or breathe air. His life has long since passed
beyond the point where such things can sustain him and the
only viable sustenance for the Emperor is human life force -
souls - and he has an insatiable appetite.

This has long since been debunked as in universe propaganda to disguise JUST HOW FEW psykers are actually put to death. 10 thousand psykers DO form the psychic choir that powers the astronomicon and daily some of them die (Somewhere between 50 and a hundred) due to the stress of powring the astronomican. But the 10 thousand chosen of the Adeptus astrobnomica live their lives like planetary governors. They give their lives gladly for how high of an honour it is. Not to mention that a psykers soul shines brighter in the warp then those of normal men. It is universally their FATE to either spend eternity beeing tortured by daemons, BECOME daemons or to become snacks for the Dark gods. A psyker that dies fueling the astronomican simply has his soul evaporate in a whisk of power, becoming one with the emperor which is why he sheds his never ending tears. In the empire. beeing a psyker is heresy that is punishable by death. But 90% of psykers either become navigators, astropaths, chosen of the astronomican, grey knight applicants, Space marine librarians, primaris psykers or even inquisitors. That fable exists to put peoples minds at ease. The emperor afterall is the highest authorithy fo the empire. Him putting these psykers to death by taking their heretical powers as his own (Remember only the emperor is supposed to be a psyker) Sounds like justice to the people of the empire.

Or, the Emperor only can obtain nourishment from the psychic energy of humans. And if he doesn't eat, he dies.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Yeah I do like the whole grimdark stuff and the way mankind is portrayed, but I always figured that it was simply because ol' Empy wasn't around to sort stuff out
The more you know eh?

Because massed genocide in the name of 'liberation from religion' isn't grimdark for you? Even in the early Imperial heydays they made Stalin look like a very nice man, and he killed 30 million of his own people while the Germans only killed 25 million.

Thanks to an enforced atheism and political repurposement campaign the Imperium basically does the same thing on a galactic scale. Sinderman gives a speech in Horus Rising about why what they are doing is right but it is an ultimately futile speech. What they are doing boils down to 'the Emporer demands your fealty and will kill you if you don't give it. We're mightier so that make us right.

It isn't so much the worst of the middle ages/dark ages, but the worst with the dial cranked up and magnified out of proportion combined with the unsavory modern flavors of the state is supreme.

Tactical_Genius wrote:

BRB p.160 wrote:
Only the Emperor's mind is powerful enough to survive directing the raw forces supplied by the servants of the Adeptus Astronomica to shape the psychic beacon of the Astronomican. The same survivability does not hold true for those members of the Adeptus Astronomica themselves, for their fate is a sad one. The efforts of generating so much mental energy soon destroys them, leeching their souls and reducing them to empty husks. Many die every day, but they are not the only psykers who are asked to make the ultimate sacrifice, for the Emperor cannot eat as men eat, or drink or breathe air. His life has long since passed beyond the point where such things can sustain him and the only viable sustenance for the Emperor is human life force - souls - and he has an insatiable appetite.

Huh, I never actually catched that detail when I read the book - this seems to be a new thing, or at least I cannot recall having seen it before. Thanks for the quote!

The Emperor is a good character. He's noble and cares deeply for mankind, yet in order to ensure man's dominance and safety, he's ok with wiping out whole species of aliens. Yin and yang, baby. He wouldn't be a compelling character if he were fully "good" or fully "evil."

The soul eating thing - well, that's a necessary evil. If that didn't happen, the astronomican would fail, making space travel impossible. In addition, there is some indication that chaos and other warp beings could flood forth into the materium. That cannot be allowed.

 Lynata wrote:
And to be fair, the Emperor may well not have had any sort of influence over the entire subject. This system was set up after he was interred in the Golden Throne, so .. blame the High Lords and/or the AdMech.

This. I think if I remember correctly, the Golden Throne wasn't even meant to be Empy's life support, more of an amplifier - it had to be retrofitted that way as an emergency.

Also, get used to there being nothing nice or friendly about the lore. Even the so-called goody-two-shoes Tau have their secrets and dark sides. Just how do the Ethereals live that much longer than an ordinary Tau? Why do they hold so much sway over their race? And why has Farsight suddenly gone rogue once out of touch with them...?

 Super Ready wrote:
Just how do the Ethereals live that much longer than an ordinary Tau? Why do they hold so much sway over their race? And why has Farsight suddenly gone rogue once out of touch with them...?

Oh that's actually covered. You see Do not meddle in our affairs.


-Aun'Wei

He'd be much less of a nice guy if he died and let Chaos overwhelm all of humanity, I guess. You get used to the general evilness of 40k's fluff after a while.

Well, given recent fluff and the whole 'unreliable narrator' thing, the question is actually 'Are the psykers to fuel the astronomicon is is that just a cover for feeding them to the golden throne to keep Terra from becoming a new Eye of Terror.

Does it really matters? Those sacrifices are necessary for the survival of the IoM, and maybe Humanity.

 Zed wrote:
He'd be much less of a nice guy if he died and let Chaos overwhelm all of humanity, I guess. You get used to the general evilness of 40k's fluff after a while.

Pretty much this.

 LoneLictor wrote:
That's been in the fluff since the very beginning. Honestly, I wish the Horus Heresy series wouldn't keep trying to portrayal the genocidal tyrant and self-proclaimed God as such a nice guy.

You're reading a very different Horus Heresy series than I am.

One thing to remember, 40K is not Good vs. Evil, it's Law vs. Chaos (to use the D&D alignment grid) The IoM is pretty solidly lawful neutral. They don't care about good and evil, as long as you tithe on time and follow the rules.

 Nevelon wrote:
One thing to remember, 40K is not Good vs. Evil, it's Law vs. Chaos (to use the D&D alignment grid) The IoM is pretty solidly lawful neutral. They don't care about good and evil, as long as you tithe on time and follow the rules.

That only applies to the relations between the IoM and Chaos, then you add the other factions. 40k is more of a free for all for survival.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Just found out that the Emperor constantly gobbles on the souls of imperial psykers...

WTF???

Hahahaha! Welcome to the 41st Millenium!

This is one of the juiciest parts of the best of the good ole' lore from this crazy setting. The Imperium epytomizes the worst pesimistic points of view about mankind and society ever. On punk steroyds. Massive Governmental evil is necessary just to prevent social collapse and utter extinction. This could be an Imperial motto. Remember Hobbes? Filter his Leviathan though XXth century totalitarisms, European Wars of Religion, high medieval darkening, genocidical imperialism and malthusian cynism, add lasguns and telliportas and there you go!: the Imperium of Man!

If I remember well, your options as a psyker in the Imperium are, from best to worse (more or less):
- Work for the Stablishment! Inquisitor, Librarian, Adeptus Astra Telepatica... there is plenty of demand for really, really tough psykers. But you wont probably be so tough. Keep reading...
- Get underground in a forgotten place like the deeps of Hive Primus in Necromunda or some backwater frontier planet (Deadwood in space). You can even make some money healing people, fighting alongside local gangs or selling third class divinations. Try not to get detected neither by Enforcers nor by Daemons. Certainly, not by the Black Ship's Inquisitors.
- Join Chaos! Your future will lie somewhere between an early anonymous violent death and becoming an exhalted Chaos Lord. Probably, closer to the first than to the second.
- Provoke some unexpected cataclysm. Burn your neighbours at touch, collapse chunks of reality or summon armies of hypnotized weaklings to fulfill your darkest desires. You will have your fun until Imperial response arrives. Bolter response, usually.
- Get used and spent by a Daemon in some way or another. Some of these are quite nice, actually, specially if treating with Slaaneshi Daemons.
- Get found by the Black Ships. Join, after a painfull training, the Chorus that keeps the Astronomicon alive. Die in duty after a short life truly serving mankind.
- Get found by the Black Ships. Join, after a shorter painfull training, the menu of the Emperor. His unlife keeps the Imperium from collapsing, even if only because he focuses the Astronomicon, is a powerful symbol and maybe sits on a big fat potential Second Eye of Terror. You don't do any of these.

Remember, 40k revolves about social and ideological caricature. The rest is just flavouring war-porn. Which I welcome, of course

 Tyran wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
One thing to remember, 40K is not Good vs. Evil, it's Law vs. Chaos (to use the D&D alignment grid) The IoM is pretty solidly lawful neutral. They don't care about good and evil, as long as you tithe on time and follow the rules.

That only applies to the relations between the IoM and Chaos, then you add the other factions. 40k is more of a free for all for survival.

The Iom vs. Forces of Chaos defines the setting. Everyone else plays the part of supporting characters. Depending on your POV, even chaos plays that role. It's basically the Emperor trying to bring order to the galaxy, and everyone telling him to feth off.

Orks? Amoral killing machines. CN in D&D terms.
Tyranids. True neutral. They just want noms.
Eldar, who will casually sentence whole planets to die to save one eldar life are hardly good. DE don't even pretend.
There are some Good elements within the IoM, but a vast majority don't care. LN
Chaos is a solid CE
Tau are the only group that even tries to be good. And they are the odd man out for that.

40k is a shades of grey world from a good/evil POV. Not a whole lot of shining lights of hope and goodness out there.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
Just found out that the Emperor constantly gobbles on the souls of imperial psykers...

WTF???

Every day, thousands upon thousands of Psykers arrive on Terra aboard the Black Ships of the Inquisition. They are tested to the utmost, judging the strength of their minds and their souls, to determine if they can withstand the horrors of the Warp that prey upon Mankind, most often through the minds of the untrained, unsanctioned, and unprepared Psyker.

Of these thousands, many will be found wanting, too weak in power, will and spirit to resist the temptations of the Daemon. These, then, are brought before the Golden Throne, and the Emperor devours them utterly. A thousand per day. So that he may never truly die.

 Roberkhan wrote:
- Get used and spent by a Daemon in some way or another. Some of these are quite nice, actually, specially if treating with Slaaneshi Daemons.

Err... I wouldn't bank on it, not for anything but the shortest of terms at least. There's a reason the Eldar are afraid of death.