Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So after a long time of not playing fantasy I was drawn to the lizardmen. After reading the book from front to back I really fell in love with them.
So my question is were should I start? Should I pick the battalion box up or maybe two. I really love tekko, but is he worth it? Any information on how they play would be awesome.

Tetto'Eko is awesome! You can bring him to augment Kroak, Slann, etc. plus he's the only wizard you can take in a reasonable point round and still get two Carnosaurs. No matter the point round, I always bring Tetto, no matter what kind of list I'm using. He's one of the best Hero wizards in the game, and he can buff a Slann so much it's like a Casket of Souls.

I would start with a few chameleon kits, 1-2 battalions, a Carnosaur or two (depending if you want to field a Slann or not. definitely at least 1) Tetto's cool! I would get a box of Kroxigors to put in his bunker. Maybe an Ancient Stegadon, maybe a couple Bastiadons. You get the idea.

Overall Lizardmen aren't as powerful as before, but I think they've become more fun to play! Awesome minis, awesome team!

I would take tetto just for his buff to the magic dice and the vanguard. The fact that he also is a level 2, and can bring down a scary comet (if he gets comet) is icing on the cake.

I agree with the purchase suggestions but how are lizzies "less powerful than before"?

Stuff thats better (mainly because of Predatory fighter but other rules as well):

Kroak
Slann- HIGH MAGIC and dirty spell swapping that basically equates to tailoring your magic lore to the opponent. doing this has generally been known as cheating until now.
Kroq-Gar
Gor-Rok
Saurus- either HW/S or Spears
Temple Guard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Cool new stuff:

Everything, especially Skink cheifs on rippers and bastiladons.

*deleted*


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Isn't Tetto'ekko a loremaster of heavens?

Isn't Tetto'ekko a loremaster of heavens?

No, although now you have said it, i'm not 100%

But i'm gonna stick with my first answer of no.

 mixer86 wrote:

Isn't Tetto'ekko a loremaster of heavens?

No, although now you have said it, i'm not 100%

But i'm gonna stick with my first answer of no.

Yep, Tetto'ekko is a loremaster of heavens . Page 57 under special rules.

 Son of Landuin wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:

Isn't Tetto'ekko a loremaster of heavens?

No, although now you have said it, i'm not 100%

But i'm gonna stick with my first answer of no.

Yep, Tetto'ekko is a loremaster of heavens . Page 57 under special rules.

Sweet. makes him well worth his points.

Woah. How did I miss that? He's easily worth 250 points, and he's worth a lord choice.
So lore-master, re-roll bad casting dice, pre-game movement for ANY unit, and re-rolls dice for the comet? Awesome!

-Matt

250? He's only 185... Seems a bit broken actually.

 mixer86 wrote:
I agree with the purchase suggestions but how are lizzies "less powerful than before"?

Stuff thats better (mainly because of Predatory fighter but other rules as well):

Kroak
Slann- HIGH MAGIC and dirty spell swapping that basically equates to tailoring your magic lore to the opponent. doing this has generally been known as cheating until now.
Kroq-Gar
Gor-Rok
Saurus- either HW/S or Spears
Temple Guard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Cool new stuff:

Everything, especially Skink cheifs on rippers and bastiladons.

...The Lizardmen have gotten worse... The Slann was so ridiculously amazing before, he is simply a shadow of his former glory.

Predatory Fighter is a bad thing, man. The enemy can send your Saurus all over the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Son of Landuin wrote:
250? He's only 185... Seems a bit broken actually.

...No he's not.



P.S. I should add you may also want to purchase Gor-Rok, and a Cold-One Scar-Vet. (You can take those two and Tetto in a 2000 pt round or higher)

The Lizardmen have gotten worse... The Slann was so ridiculously amazing before, he is simply a shadow of his former glory.

I will grant you he can no longer turn enemy 6's off but High magic and the lore attribute allow your slann to tailor his magic to suit. They are still all kinds of awesome. i think what they've done is great for the game, it makes slann a bit fairer for the enemy whilst keeping them that point higher than other races wizards (as it should be).

Predatory Fighter is a bad thing, man. The enemy can send your Saurus all over the board.

I'm going to hold any further comments on this until i have played more games to see how much it effects the army. though it it mitigated by skinks hero.

 LordHamshire wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Son of Landuin wrote:
250? He's only 185... Seems a bit broken actually.

...No he's not.

Yes he is. Well, my book says 185 points anyway.

i think lordhamshire was referring to "no, he isn't broken"

He's VERY good for his points, but not broken.

Oh, that would make sense then. Duh, stupid me!
I read it wrong. Sorry!

 mixer86 wrote:

The Lizardmen have gotten worse... The Slann was so ridiculously amazing before, he is simply a shadow of his former glory.

I will grant you he can no longer turn enemy 6's off but High magic and the lore attribute allow your slann to tailor his magic to suit. They are still all kinds of awesome. i think what they've done is great for the game, it makes slann a bit fairer for the enemy whilst keeping them that point higher than other races wizards (as it should be).

Predatory Fighter is a bad thing, man. The enemy can send your Saurus all over the board.

I'm going to hold any further comments on this until i have played more games to see how much it effects the army. though it it mitigated by skinks hero.

Focused Rumination, and the old Focus of Mystery were amazing. The Lore of High Magic just doesn't stand up to the Lore of Life, and getting an extra die for every cast... was... ridiculous. The Slann is a good wizard... just not that great.

Name a better wizard that isn't a special/named character?

A. Why can't it be named?
B. It's not about a wizard being "better", it's that this Slann cost near 500 points when all is said and done! Sure, it might still be a good option, I'm not saying he's not. He just isn't that amazing for 500 pts.

Options like an Oldblood on Carnosaur have become more reasonable, because of how much worse the Slann has become. In the meta, that is primarily what made Lizardmen top-tier. Lizardmen are no longer near as competitive as teams like Ogres or Vampire Counts.

 LordHamshire wrote:
A. Why can't it be named?
B. It's not about a wizard being "better", it's that this Slann cost near 500 points when all is said and done! Sure, it might still be a good option, I'm not saying he's not. He just isn't that amazing for 500 pts.

Options like an Oldblood on Carnosaur have become more reasonable, because of how much worse the Slann has become. In the meta, that is primarily what made Lizardmen top-tier. Lizardmen are no longer near as competitive as teams like Ogres or Vampire Counts.

I think the near 500 point slaan is a suckers bet. I've downsized to 345 and I'm very happy.

Yeah, but that's still really expensive.

 LordHamshire wrote:
A. Why can't it be named?
B. It's not about a wizard being "better", it's that this Slann cost near 500 points when all is said and done! Sure, it might still be a good option, I'm not saying he's not. He just isn't that amazing for 500 pts.

Options like an Oldblood on Carnosaur have become more reasonable, because of how much worse the Slann has become. In the meta, that is primarily what made Lizardmen top-tier. Lizardmen are no longer near as competitive as teams like Ogres or Vampire Counts.

To be fair, Lizardmen are still up there.

You have to consider that the Slann is a level 4 wizard with higher toughness, more wounds, a 4+ ward save, cold blooded and Ld9 and the ability to reroll dangerous terrain tests due to his chair. He's actually quite comparable to other level 4 wizards if you were to give them sufficient magic items to try and bring them on par.

In addition he can have the disciplines - which include more dice for channeling, the ability to reroll dispel attempts each turn, Loremaster and the ability to store dice.

In addition he can be the army's battle standard bearer as well as the general - adding a further magic item allotment to what he already has (and what he pretty much has for free!).

This is before you factor in the ability to swap out spells from High Magic - effectively allowing a Loremaster (High) Slann to completely overhaul his spells depending on what he's facing. Furthermore these spells can be swapped with other Slann on the field, allowing you to pretty much maximise the spell's effectiveness. Short ranged damage? Get it to the Slann that's closer to the enemy or has more skink options to cast through. Augments? Get them to the Slann that is near a scrap so he can put it on units. Ranged? Get it to the Slann that's safely sat in the back.

This is before you factor in the ability to cast direct damage and magic missile spells through friendly characters, even if his own unit is engaged in combat.

Slann may have lost the ability to smother 6s but to be fair they got a lot more flexibility in what they can do. Between the Cube of Darkness and Drain Magic, as well as the rerolling dispel discipline and the ability to channel so many more dice (from Slann, from Skinks, from the freaking Troglodon) the Slann can make life hell for anyone who's dependent on remains in play spells or augments - so Tomb Kings, Ogres, Vampire Counts and anyone using Beasts are going to have a very bad day.

I'd say for a minor point increase Slann got a lot more flexible in what they can do.

And that's before you factor in the rest of the army - pretty much everyone got buffs across the board.

Saurus remain the same in points but got Predatory Fighter for free. Furthermore spears are a free exchange as well.
Skinks remain the same but Aquatic got better (free cover save!). Oh, and they got an armor save.
Kroxigor are cheaper, got a point reduction and increased Strength. Oh, and Predatory Fighters. I believe this puts them back on par with other Monstrous Infantry, especially when you consider that they have a 4+ save base which no one else can get close to really.
Temple Guard are cheaper and got Predatory Fighter for free. And a cheaper command group.
Saurus Cav stole the show by getting significantly cheaper if you don't give them spears, PF and cold ones with more attacks (!)
Jungle Swarms tried to steal the show as well getting significantly cheaper and giving everyone in combat with the same unit poisoned attacks. Just consider this. Every 6 a PF unit rolls is an autowound with an additional attack thrown in.

I'd say Lizards came out rather well.

As far as Monstrous Infantry hordes? Well now. Between Salamanders having a stronger, actual flaming attack template, the Slann's mass magic denial and Stegadon mutli-wound impact hits....I'd say that's not a problem.

 LordHamshire wrote:
Yeah, but that's still really expensive.

Most of the Slaans abilities can be mimicked by dark elves.
Want to cast Magic missiles out of combat in a different arc? 25 point focus familiar.
4+ ward? Talisman of protection (45 points)
Want a free power die** each magic phase (dark star cloak, 20 points)
Want a free dispel die** each phase (seal of ghround 30 points)

**That averages the same as 3 channels on a 5+

Buying the gear, it's 120 points of upgrades. Strip that away, and he's a 225 point wizard.
An empire wizard is 200 points. So you're paying 25 points for for 2 wounds and LD9 cold blooded; and picking up the 2nd rank, stubborn temple guard boost and auto pass look outs.

If extra wounds, power dice, dispel dice, extra line of sight, ward save, cold blood, and temple guard bonuses are things you want, you'll find that the slaan is still very effective and most likely cheaper than he should be.