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I need some advice in this matchup.

I have tried many tactics from footslogging horde, to boys in trukks and wagons, but basically everything seems to get killed or weakened enough to not matter anymore before I can get there because of Eldars sick rate of fire.

any good lists, tactics or specific units that will be nasty for Eldar to face?

Tried the biker army?
Or battlewagon rush?

Both worked good for me against the new eldar.

In my experience battlewagons die like trukks to the new fire prisms, thanks to awesome S9 lances, nob bikers are easily negated by psychic powers. I haven't really found a way to beat then reliably yet.

Lootas, Lobbas, and possibly SAG. My Bikerz and Boyz hang out on my side of the table until at least turn 3 now.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Lootas, Lobbas, and possibly SAG. My Bikerz and Boyz hang out on my side of the table until at least turn 3 now.

Pretty much what PipeAlley said. Those are the top three Ork shooters in terms of range. DakkaJets also work in mowing down infantry units.

I would say mass warbiker squads with wazdakka to make them troops or bw rush. Our shooting cant do jack against their wave serpents, on avg. it would take 30 lootas just to down one wave serpent, so really our only option is to get close and pk/deffrolla them asap. For a warbiker army I use 5x6 man units with a pk nob in each, basically the strategy would be to turbo boost the entire army up first turn so you can assault the vehicles turn 2, now as I'm sure your aware of eldar have quite a plentiful supply of S6 dakka so it wont be too hard for them to wound you, so you'll want to keep the pk nobs in the back and also be sure to give them bp's. Once you get eldar out in the open their pretty easy to finish off. Hope this helped and best of luck!

Bikers and trucks... Try using your trucks as shields for your bikes.. If trucks go boom bikes go WAAAH!! Sure they can get around with one or two units.. But isolating their fast movers is the key.. Generally eldar have poor range even with the high movement you can divide and conquer without getting shot from across the board..

It would be really great if you people wouldn't just suggest random units, but also explain why you are taking those units.

Serpents reduce pens to glances on a 2+, have 4+ cover most of the time and get a crapton of medium strength shots to mow down boyz, about half of them ignore cover.

Fire prisms now have a S9 AP2 lance in addition to their two blast shots, which pretty much cuts right through a battlewagon. When deploying on short table edges, two of them have no trouble stopping four battlewagons before they do anything.

One of their cheapest scoring unit are snipers, which do nothing but head-shot your PK nobz all game.

Luckily my opponent has no eldar jet bikes, but I guess those would cause serious trouble, too.

In total, my ork army is missing the reach to actually harm those fast skimmers safely hanging in the back. If my lootaz advance, the serpents come closer and blow them off the table. If the don't, they hang back and keep shooting their shields. While dakka-jets do ok in wiping out most of their infantry, a serpent has a decent chance of blowing it out of the sky, due to TL scatter lasers twin-linking the rest of their weaponry.

Nob bikers did ok, as long as they stayed away from any farseers, however that's a huge area where you can't go.

Those Serpents was causing me lots of problems as well. He fielded two serpents and they basically took down two units of 30 footslogging boyz by themselves. If the boyz are in a trukk, there are no way the serpent does not take down the trukk with 7 TL str 6 shots and D6+1 TL str 7 shots.

The three units that has worked out for me currently are Lootas, Dakkajets and stormboyz led by Zagstrukk. Usually they deep strike, charge and kill something and then get's slaughtered afterwards, but up till now they have always killed my target, and if you are lucky (and the target is a vehicle), it does not blow up so that you can hide behind the wreckage after you have destroyed it.

I'm actually considering trying out either 3 dakkajets (or 2 dakkajets and a zagstrukk mob), 3 units of 15 lootas each, and then for the remaining points put boyz in BWs and charge on. But it just seems like getting into a firefight with eldar, and that seems like a really bad idea for orks.

 Jidmah wrote:
It would be really great if you people wouldn't just suggest random units, but also explain why you are taking those units.

What do you mean you people?

We have five suggestions of bikes (nobz, warbikers?), two suggestions each of battlewagons, lobbas and the SAG, one suggestion each of trukks.

Except for the one postet by flamingtadpole, there is not a single explanation on how to use them, what to aim them at, which eldar units to take out first or even what the rest of your army is supposed to look like. In short: about as useful as "MOAR BOYZ!!!".

Probably a noob question, why why are farseers so bad for the bikers?

I regularly run battlewagons full of shootaboys, backed up by lootas, and i've found it works against the new eldar. turn 1 they can't get to the side armour if you deploy right, and if they get in range of the lootas they're usually destroyed, as they usually fire their shields. even then, lootas can usually inflict a decent number of pens or glancings, and only 3 need to get through the 4+ cover whether they downgrade them or not.

at 2k i like to get battlewagons for the lootas, it keeps them a lot safer and gives scope to maneuvering around LOS blocking terrain, and it guarantees that they're all in range or none are in range.

never tried lobbas, but i imagine they'll fail against AV12 serpents and T6 wraithguard.

supakannons, if you can bring imperial armour, are very good at outranging most things, and have a strength enough to seriously hurt wraithguard, wraithlords and wraithseers.

tankbustas, much maligned and always underestimated, if you can get these guys in range of 2 waveserpents, they've got a chance of breaking both of them - release bomm squigs at the closest, fire rokkits at the other. keep them out of range of the serpents (something he'll help you with) and you can go kill some wraithlords.

trukkboys still eat wavserpents, if you can catch them. it helps that you'll have 2 trukkmobs for each serpent he has, and if he buches up and relies on superior range, and you follow the trukks with battlewagons, you can keep him from escaping without using his flat-out move, then do the same again next turn. if he doesn't flat out, the boys charge, glance him to death and he'll get no saves.


for da orks, close combat is king against vehicles. shooting is king against infantry. if you can pop a vehicle with trukkers, the trukkers get shot by what comes out and then shootaboys kill them back.

 Jidmah wrote:
We have five suggestions of bikes (nobz, warbikers?), two suggestions each of battlewagons, lobbas and the SAG, one suggestion each of trukks.

Except for the one postet by flamingtadpole, there is not a single explanation on how to use them, what to aim them at, which eldar units to take out first or even what the rest of your army is supposed to look like. In short: about as useful as "MOAR BOYZ!!!".

OMG... The problem from the OP was wanting either lists, tactics or specific units that are nasty to elder. "RANGE" and "DAKKA" isn't a good enough of a reason for you? -sheesh- Alright fine let's get really specific then:

Lootas: 48" range. STR 7 AP 3 Heavy D3 shots each time you shoot them. Keep them in cover, don't footslog.

Lobbas: 48" Range. I want to say 5/5 off the top of my head (not sure). Heavy 1 Blast. Fire them at mobs.

Shokk Attack Gun: 60" Range. STR 2D6 AP2. Heavy 1 Ordinance. Can't snap fire when you move but it's great when you roll high on the strength.

DakkaJets: Supa Shootas: I want to say 36" range off the top of my head. STR 6 AP 4. Assault 3. On the turn you WAAAGH you can fire every Supa Shoota you have on the plane twice.


Happy Now, Jidmah?

Not sure where you issue lies havent seen the list that really needs help...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway for 1850 Pointz try this TAC Wagon Rush List

HQ
Big Mek/KFF
WarBoss/Mega,Cyb,BP
Elite
9 Lootas Behind ADL can GTG
9 Lootas GTG in Cover
9 Lootas GTG in Cover
Troops
3 MegaNobz:(BattleWagon/DR,BS,RPJ) Boss and Big Mek
20 Shoota Boyz(One Is Nob,BC,BP) in Wagon
20 Shoota Boyz(One Is Nob,BC,BP) in wagon
20 Shoota Boyz(One Is Nob,BC,BP) in wagon
15 Grots Runt Herd in ADL Manning Quad
15 Grots + Runtherd (Reserve for late game Objective Taking)
Heavy
BattleWagon/DR,BS,RPJ,GR
BattleWagon/DR,BS,RPJ,GR
BattleWagon/DR,BS,RPJ,GR
Fort
ADL,Quad (100)

Run the Wagons up the Side with Big,mek/Meganob wagon protected by the other three.flat out for turn one and cruise on turn two as you smash into his lines .Passengers can still snap shot at cruise speed ..keep them spaced apart so that one big template cannon hit any two of them ..note this will provide a 5+ cover for the outer wagons and a bonus cover for the inner ..Smash the Deffrollas into them and wreak face..the Sheer Volume of Fire from the Lootas should give him pause ..Use the Riggers and the Mek to repair glances and weapons as the wagons roll ..
(even if the wagons get popped odds are most of the boyz will survive run them in behind the wagons ..or run them onto an objective ...
Remember when GTG in cover or behind ADL Lootas need to be spaced so that a standard blast maker will only hit 2-3 at most or one if its a direct hit (base to base 1.75 inches make a quick T this size to check )

this is a straight foward list that will win or draw and rarely lose

Also note the ADL can also fire at ground units or at units comming in from reserve ..during the stage when it comes in ..

some bloke wrote:I regularly run battlewagons full of shootaboys, backed up by lootas, and i've found it works against the new eldar. turn 1 they can't get to the side armour if you deploy right, and if they get in range of the lootas they're usually destroyed, as they usually fire their shields. even then, lootas can usually inflict a decent number of pens or glancings, and only 3 need to get through the 4+ cover whether they downgrade them or not.

My problem with that is that the new fire prisms have S9 AP1 lances. With the lance special rule, front armor is the same as side armor, AP1 + open topped is pretty much a guaranteed explosion every turn (assuming the aforementioned two fire prisms).

 DieselJester wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
We have five suggestions of bikes (nobz, warbikers?), two suggestions each of battlewagons, lobbas and the SAG, one suggestion each of trukks.

Except for the one postet by flamingtadpole, there is not a single explanation on how to use them, what to aim them at, which eldar units to take out first or even what the rest of your army is supposed to look like. In short: about as useful as "MOAR BOYZ!!!".

OMG... The problem from the OP was wanting either lists, tactics or specific units that are nasty to elder. "RANGE" and "DAKKA" isn't a good enough of a reason for you? -sheesh- Alright fine let's get really specific then:

Lootas: 48" range. STR 7 AP 3 Heavy D3 shots each time you shoot them. Keep them in cover, don't footslog.

Lobbas: 48" Range. I want to say 5/5 off the top of my head (not sure). Heavy 1 Blast. Fire them at mobs.

Shokk Attack Gun: 60" Range. STR 2D6 AP2. Heavy 1 Ordinance. Can't snap fire when you move but it's great when you roll high on the strength.

DakkaJets: Supa Shootas: I want to say 36" range off the top of my head. STR 6 AP 4. Assault 3. On the turn you WAAAGH you can fire every Supa Shoota you have on the plane twice.


Happy Now, Jidmah?

So in short, your have no idea what you are doing or even what eldar armies look like. Is that what you are trying to say?

Thanks for pointing out that your advice should be ignored.

Gotta agree with Jidmah here, too often we get "use X unit" as advice, which unless its some obscure unit you'd never think of is not great advice.

That said I've never played Eldar so god knows what to take against them. I use Lootas to great effect against Dark Eldar though, smashing those whimpy skimmers of theirs, and barrage weapons like Lobbas are great for blasting fiddly, mobile light troops that can hide behind cover and such.

codedaemon wrote:
Probably a noob question, why why are farseers so bad for the bikers?

It really depends on what your opponent got for his powers, but considering their low LD, they easily fall victim to powers aiming at that, in addition doom pretty much negates their toughness, and many other maledictions take heavy toll on their power you paid premium to get. If you opponent got all buffs, of course you don't need to stay away from them.