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I've just started playing against drop pods, and something seems a bit fishy to me. I know they don't scatter into Impassable terrain or friendly/enemy models, but is it right that their doors can drop onto them? Don't they need to have enough room to open without hitting anything? It seems that pods only need a few square inches to land, and right between your squads seems the ideal place...

It depends on whether or not you consider the doors to be part of the hull or not. Most people lay that the doors are not hull and thus enemy models can be within 1" of them, they cannot be targeted, and embarked models cannot disembark off them.

ted1138 wrote:
Don't they need to have enough room to open without hitting anything? It seems that pods only need a few square inches to land, and right between your squads seems the ideal place...

I've never seen anyone say Landraiders, rhinos, waveserpents, or other transports have to be able to open their doors... why would DPs?


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BTW, pod proofing or bubble wrapping a force is pretty/really easy. Don't leave gaps greater than 5" and put either expendable or durable units on the periffory. After that it should be intuitive.

It takes a little practice. An experienced pod player knows how to pop bubble wrap. I'm not saying it isn't a viable tactic (between that and putting many of your units into 'walk on' reserve, it's the best way to steal the pods' thunder) but it certainly isn't foolproof. The ability of the marines to combat squad, and have one squad gun down the human shields so the other one (bearing the melta, or plasma gun, or what have you) can get at the soft, creamy center of the pile is something that can peel back the wrapper, so to speak. Still, bubble wrapping (or reserving important, fragile, units, as well as putting your back to a large terrain piece or the board edge) is a very good defense against the pods.

As far as the doors go, there is no clear cut definition on whether or not they count as hull. I prefer that they do not, but since I play pods, I always leave that decision in their hands. While doors counting as hull means that the enemy only needs line of sight to the very tips of my doors, it also means that the squad could deploy from the very tip of the door (gaining them extra inches of movement). Most opponents, after hearing it like that, agree that they would rather the doors NOT count as hull. (I've never had an opponent choose to do it the other way.)

In any event, I hope that helps!

The way we play it (and mind you this is just how we've agreed to do it among my group) is that the doors do not count as part of the hull, but do count for LoS purposes (since no one in our group glues the doors shut) -- allowing people to choose which doors they want to open.

Either way, what do you propose if someone plays against you with a pod that's been glued shut?

there was an official ruling at some point to say that technically the doors did count as hull, however as it is at player discretion to discuss this with the opponent to find a mutually agreeable outcome.

personally I've always played it that the doors play no part and that the pods do not block LoS but do provide the cover save for shooting through it.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
there was an official ruling at some point to say that technically the doors did count as hull, however as it is at player discretion to discuss this with the opponent to find a mutually agreeable outcome.

personally I've always played it that the doors play no part and that the pods do not block LoS but do provide the cover save for shooting through it.

There was never a ruling that said this. The BRB clearly states that nothing but the hull of a vehicle counts for LOS, etc. Doors, flags, weapons, etc, don't count. The hull of the drop pod is what is important, the doors are there for model completeness and looks.

 nutty_nutter wrote:
there was an official ruling

Proof?

 Portugal Jones wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
there was an official ruling

Proof?

sorry don't have anything in writing about it, was stated at a ToS tournament by the organisers when brought into question that the doors counted as the hull of the drop pods and could be used for such purposes.

they also amended it during the day that you could discuss between yourselves before the game if you wanted to enforce it.

Technically the doors are the hull of the pod as they form roughly 45% of the total mass of the model surface area, there are arguments for either case in at any rate.


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 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
there was an official ruling at some point to say that technically the doors did count as hull, however as it is at player discretion to discuss this with the opponent to find a mutually agreeable outcome.

personally I've always played it that the doors play no part and that the pods do not block LoS but do provide the cover save for shooting through it.

There was never a ruling that said this. The BRB clearly states that nothing but the hull of a vehicle counts for LOS, etc. Doors, flags, weapons, etc, don't count. The hull of the drop pod is what is important, the doors are there for model completeness and looks.

nothing on P73 of the BRB supports your statement there, doors are part of the hull and as such can be targeted, decorative banner poles, antennas, gun barrels are ignored.

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 Portugal Jones wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
there was an official ruling

Proof?

sorry don't have anything in writing about it, was stated at a ToS tournament by the organisers when brought into question that the doors counted as the hull of the drop pods and could be used for such purposes.

they also amended it during the day that you could discuss between yourselves before the game if you wanted to enforce it.

Technically the doors are the hull of the pod as they form roughly 45% of the total mass of the model surface area, there are arguments for either case in at any rate.
.

What is a ToS tourney? Because if it wasn't GW ran, during 6th edition, it really means nothing to the rest of the 40k community. If it was GW, then tracking this down should be pretty easy and kudos to you for finding it


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Also. page 79 shows disembarking... none of the doors that CAN be built to open (and are, if you follow the directions) on that page are open. In the rules it says you measure from the access point, not the physical door.

nutty - that is NOT an official ruling.

An official ruling is an FAQ available on the GW FAQ section. Not a ToS FAQ - the events team who run ToS are not in any way shape or form the actual studio, and have no ability to make an "official" ruling - ever

 Lobukia wrote:
What is a ToS tourney?

ToS = Throne of Skulls.
GW's official tournament held at Warhammer World.

 Lobukia wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:

 Portugal Jones wrote:

 nutty_nutter wrote:
there was an official ruling

Proof?

sorry don't have anything in writing about it, was stated at a ToS tournament by the organisers when brought into question that the doors counted as the hull of the drop pods and could be used for such purposes.

they also amended it during the day that you could discuss between yourselves before the game if you wanted to enforce it.

Technically the doors are the hull of the pod as they form roughly 45% of the total mass of the model surface area, there are arguments for either case in at any rate.
.

What is a ToS tourney? Because if it wasn't GW ran, during 6th edition, it really means nothing to the rest of the 40k community. If it was GW, then tracking this down should be pretty easy and kudos to you for finding it


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Also. page 79 shows disembarking... none of the doors that CAN be built to open (and are, if you follow the directions) on that page are open. In the rules it says you measure from the access point, not the physical door.

it was a 6th one, one of the more recent ones as we have a couple of guys that are now hard core fans of the Throne of Skulls tournement days.

currently the doors count as hull, however it is open to discussion with your opponent as it can have varied effects on the game (and most people think it is silly to state the doors counteing in this regard as it makes the drop pods footprint huge).

they did say however that it will be cleared up in the next installment so watch this space.

It's taking the mick when a pod lands in an area where it's doors can't open, yet it's passengers can somehow get out. Should be a rule that passengers can only get out of doors that can physically open, any blocked ones can't be used. Also, if getting out brings you within 1" of an enemy model, then you can't get out that side either...

ted1138 wrote:
It's taking the mick when a pod lands in an area where it's doors can't open, yet it's passengers can somehow get out. Should be a rule that passengers can only get out of doors that can physically open, any blocked ones can't be used. Also, if getting out brings you within 1" of an enemy model, then you can't get out that side either...

this is why a lot of people consider the doors to not be part of the hull, otherwise it gets messy.

also there is a rule covering the 1", you do have to maintain the 1" from an enemy otherwise your breaking the movement rules, the only way your allowed within 1" of an enemy model is when you have charged them (excluding vehicle hulls that have not moved away after having been charged in the previous assault phase)

I dont think doors count as hull. I can't recall where( I'll check when I get home) but somewhere in the rule book it says that a drop pod doors are considered blown open when it lands for LOS purposes. If they were part of the hull I think they wouldn't say that cuz a vehicles hull can block LOS allowing you to keep em close to block it

sangheili wrote:
I dont think doors count as hull. I can't recall where( I'll check when I get home) but somewhere in the rule book it says that a drop pod doors are considered blown open when it lands for LOS purposes.

Not true.

There is a fluff sentence that states "The hatches are blown..." (SM Codex 69)

But that is not the same thing as being a rule nor is it the same thing as Blown Open...

 DeathReaper wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I dont think doors count as hull. I can't recall where( I'll check when I get home) but somewhere in the rule book it says that a drop pod doors are considered blown open when it lands for LOS purposes.

Not true.

There is a fluff sentence that states "The hatches are blown..." (SM Codex 69)

But that is not the same thing as being a rule nor is it the same thing as Blown Open...

I'll check when I get home cuz lime I said Idk where and hopefully I'll find it cuz somewhere it states the LOS issue

sangheili wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I dont think doors count as hull. I can't recall where( I'll check when I get home) but somewhere in the rule book it says that a drop pod doors are considered blown open when it lands for LOS purposes.

Not true.

There is a fluff sentence that states "The hatches are blown..." (SM Codex 69)

But that is not the same thing as being a rule nor is it the same thing as Blown Open...

I'll check when I get home cuz lime I said Idk where and hopefully I'll find it cuz somewhere it states the LOS issue

There are no rules about the Line of Sight issue except for the basic Line of Sight rules.

 DeathReaper wrote:

sangheili wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I dont think doors count as hull. I can't recall where( I'll check when I get home) but somewhere in the rule book it says that a drop pod doors are considered blown open when it lands for LOS purposes.

Not true.

There is a fluff sentence that states "The hatches are blown..." (SM Codex 69)

But that is not the same thing as being a rule nor is it the same thing as Blown Open...

I'll check when I get home cuz lime I said Idk where and hopefully I'll find it cuz somewhere it states the LOS issue

There are no rules about the Line of Sight issue except for the basic Line of Sight rules.

Yea I couldnt find that but I remember seeing it somewhere. So now since it doesn't say anywhere about the doors having to open. Can the stay closed and block LOS

Sure, but that means the gun mounted inside will never be able to fire. Of course you will also have people arguing that "the hatches are blown" so the doors must be opened, yet I have never seen anyone actually blow the hatches on their drop pods.

The most common way I've seen DPs played is you treat the doors as open for drawing LOS through the pod, but ignore them for everything else.

 Happyjew wrote:
Sure, but that means the gun mounted inside will never be able to fire. Of course you will also have people arguing that "the hatches are blown" so the doors must be opened, yet I have never seen anyone actually blow the hatches on their drop pods.

The most common way I've seen DPs played is you treat the doors as open for drawing LOS through the pod, but ignore them for everything else.

Yea that's how I play too and everyone I've played with as long as the main part is 1 inch away from their units it's ok they don't care if their models end up on top of doors

 Happyjew wrote:
Sure, but that means the gun mounted inside will never be able to fire. Of course you will also have people arguing that "the hatches are blown" so the doors must be opened, yet I have never seen anyone actually blow the hatches on their drop pods.

The most common way I've seen DPs played is you treat the doors as open for drawing LOS through the pod, but ignore them for everything else.

Probably the best way to play it.

I feel also shooting at a drop pod that is obscured with only a door laying on the ground visible is pretty stupid, What possible hull damage could you deal by damaging a door that is barely attached to the drop pod?

It's the explosive bolts on the hatches that are blown, so the doors have to open(even if they open onto other models). I still don't agree with models exiting through an access point that's within 2" of an enemy model though...

ted1138 wrote:
It's the explosive bolts on the hatches that are blown, so the doors have to open

Thats not a rule though, just a bit of background fluff.

(even if they open onto other models.)

That would be a Deepstrike Mishap then.

Have any of you seen the revised rules for the .. Lucius pattern is it ? ..... Dreadnought droppod that FW makes ?

Rules for that seem to indicate that the doors are indeed part of the vehicle as normal.

ted1138 wrote:
It's the explosive bolts on the hatches that are blown, so the doors have to open(even if they open onto other models). I still don't agree with models exiting through an access point that's within 2" of an enemy model though...

So space wolves drop pods dont have to open? The fluff sentence about blowing the hatches isnt there in the space wolves drop pod entry.
Also if you consider "the hatches are blown" as an actual rule i expect you to actually blow them the next time you use C:SM drop pods.

ted1138 wrote:
It's the explosive bolts on the hatches that are blown, so the doors have to open(even if they open onto other models).

What happens if the bolts are blown but the doors are stuck due to ice buildup from the drop? (In other words "Hatches are blown" is fluff and does not pertain to any given rule).

I still don't agree with models exiting through an access point that's within 2" of an enemy model though...

Why, is it illegal to be 2 inches from an enemy model?

 DeathReaper wrote:

ted1138 wrote:
It's the explosive bolts on the hatches that are blown, so the doors have to open(even if they open onto other models).

What happens if the bolts are blown but the doors are stuck due to ice buildup from the drop? (In other words "Hatches are blown" is fluff and does not pertain to any given rule).

I still don't agree with models exiting through an access point that's within 2" of an enemy model though...

Why, is it illegal to be 2 inches from an enemy model?

Since when does ice build up on a vehicle falling from orbit? And if there is less than 2" between a vehicle access point and an enemy model, then there isn't enough room to place a model(on a 1" base) without it being within 1" of an enemy model, thus breaking the rules...

ted1138 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

ted1138 wrote:
It's the explosive bolts on the hatches that are blown, so the doors have to open(even if they open onto other models).

What happens if the bolts are blown but the doors are stuck due to ice buildup from the drop? (In other words "Hatches are blown" is fluff and does not pertain to any given rule).

I still don't agree with models exiting through an access point that's within 2" of an enemy model though...

Why, is it illegal to be 2 inches from an enemy model?

Since when does ice build up on a vehicle falling from orbit? And if there is less than 2" between a vehicle access point and an enemy model, then there isn't enough room to place a model(on a 1" base) without it being within 1" of an enemy model, thus breaking the rules...

1) The ice buildup happens when the Pod enters the Atmosphere.

2) Less than 2 inches is illegal, 2 inches or more is legal