Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi everyone, i have devised a 1500pts of chaos. I aiming to make it at least semi-competitive so help is appreciated

Chaos lord w MOK, juggernaut, axe of blind fury and sigil of corruption - 170

Sorcerer w sigil of corruption and mastery level 2 - 110

9 chaos space marines w 1 plasma gun, power fist and a rhino - 202

10 chaos space marines w 2 meltaguns and a rhino - 195

10 chaos space marines w 2 meltaguns and a rhino - 195

Heldrake w baleflamer - 170

5 chaos spawn w MOK (not sure if MOK is necessary so pls point out if not) - 160pts

3 obliterators w MON - 228

Chaos predator w twin-linked lascannon and heavy bolters - 120

Total: 1490

(Btw im trying to avoid cultists cause i REALLY don't like them but if anyone thinks its necessary pls let me know)

Couple of thoughts:
The predators weapons need to be suited for the same target. Auto-cannon with heavy bolters; autocannon with lascannons or a full las cannon fit out. Lascannon and Heavybolters don't work too well, usually the HB can not damage or just ping off good saves.

MoK on the spawns is wasted. MoN makes them immune to instant death (from weapons strength alone) which makes them much better; but means the lord can not go with them.

Powerfist is an expensive option for a units champion and makes them vulnerable in the challenge they have to issue. You could ditch it and the units rhino and go for a lascannon to get an other long range-ish unit.

Apart from that you're looking good; three solid troops units with a splattering of support and air. Keep the rhinos tight with the spawn and get the troops out and shooting the turn the spawn go in for an assault. Obliterators need to be in the thick of it to make the most out of them so keep them very agressive; if you want to stand back and shoot then max out on havocs.

Couple of questions:

Is the lord durable enough to be on his own and if not should should i swap the spawn for khorne bikers?

And should i swap the oblits for havocs so i have points for the extra lascannons?


I agree w the power fist though and swapping for a lascannon might be a good idea for heavy support.

I'm not sure you should run the Juggerlord on his own. He needs to get into CC asap; chances are he will present a high priority target on the way in, and it really helps to have a delivery system/meat shield/retinue to take some ablative wounds.

I've ran him with a unit of bikers a few times (I don't have any spawn yet to compare). It works ok but the bikes don't have Fleet like the spawn, although it's often a good idea to split the Juggerlord off before the charge anyway so that the meat shield takes the overwatch on its own (especially if there's not many left).

What if i use nurgle spawn as a wall for the lord? i gues the only downside about that is that someone could deepstrike behind and kill him...

However, for the reason of money and the fact chaos bikers are ok with MOK it might be a better idea to use some bikers. If i choose bikers over spawn should i have meltas or flamers?

A lord on a bike with a powerfist and lightning claw escorted by nurgle spawn will get in and be dirty. Always something to think about there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A lord on a bike with a powerfist and lightning claw escorted by nurgle spawn will get in and be dirty. Always something to think about there.

Honestly, I only like two units here, the MoK juggerspawn combo, and the obliterators. Everything else feels sort of lacking. Some bolters here and a baleflamer there all seems sort of... meh. I feel like there are some definite holes in the killing power here, and having a list that isn't particularly shooty or choppy, it means you can be forced down by more focused lists.

@Allaros how is a baleflamer meh?! The heldrake is one of the most feared units because of the baleflamer. Also what do you mean by isn't choppy or shooty?


@p8ntba1141lfe imo the khornejuggylord is way more killy but, if i need more points that might be a good idea.

something in the back of my mind suggests using cultists...

The bale flamer is meh because it's only good against infantry, and it's only going to hit some 4 or 5 models against proper displacement. Terminators won't fear Ap3, and anything horde won't fear losing 4 models a turn. On a model that arrives late, and probably leaves the table early, and is far from invincible.

Moreover, it's not even the best at what it does. For many fewer points, for example, that blind fury lord is going to beat much, much more face.

But that's not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that you've got a couple meltaguns and a couple obliterators as all your anti-tank. And you've got a couple of obliterators and a pair of HQ models to handle MCs. What you need is less anti-MEq, and more anti-heavy-hitters.

Ok, i have taken in advice and have come up with another list. It has a lot more anti hard-hitting units and less anti - Meq. However, i have kept the heldrake (Imo no chaos list is complete without al least one of these beasties) and have removed the sorcerer as i feel he is a bit redundant. Some of you may groan but, i have removed MON from the spawn to make more use of points. One of the choas marine squads has been replaced with a 20 strong cultist squad.

Here it is:

Chaos lord w MOK, juggy, axe of blind fury and sigil of corruption - 170

10 chaos space marines w 2meltas and a rhino - 195

10 chaos space marines w 2 meltas and a rhino - 195

20 cultists w 20 autoguns - 110

Heldrake w baleflamer - 170

5 chaos spawn - 150

3 obliterators w MON - 228

predator w lascannon and and lascannon sponsons - 140pts

5 havocs w 4 lascannons - 135

Alternatively i could replace the predator w some havocs (with autocannons probably) and use some points to buff the cultists up a bit. Thoughts?

While the TL LC is statistically better than the autocannon for med-heavy armor, it's just too expensive for what it does. A roughly +1% chance for a glance on AV 12 costs a lot of points. Pull that off and use the autocannon.

Your CSM are just asking to get wiped after losing a challenge. Put a PS on the champ. with the points left over from dumping the TL LC.

Alternatively you could dump all the CSM, get cultists, and use the remaining points (including from the loss of the TL AC) to get another flying burninator. 1 helldrake is just meh. It does damage, but can be focused down. 2 is when it starts getting bad for other other side.

I'd say test out the LC havocs, and try ML and AC havocs. I personally hate LC havocs. Too pricey for the firepower. But some people like them, so give them a shot.

But lascannon are better at blowing AV 12 Up by a lot. And they do anything to MCs and terminators.

I agree about the troops being lacking, but I think the biggest problem right now is lack of focus. Take-one-of-everything lists tend not to do very well, especially compared to armies with a theme and a single, uniting strategy.

Im worried about dumping the chaos marine squads because, Imo a full cultist army is way too squishy. 2 heldrakes sounds nice.

@Ailaros if I were to focus on one thing I would like to theme it on heavy support w some troops holding objectives midfield. Although the thought of running faux zerhers w forgefiends is quite tempting

More nurgle!!

20 CSM and a few oblits isn't enough to make that kind of a strategy work, though. 60 CSM and 9 oblits, maybe, but you're just spending too many points on too many different kinds of things to make it work.

Lord on bike with powerfist and power claw good combo

Just wanted to pipe in on the predator debate. First, figure out what you want it to do, and you don't have to stick with a single purpose. A multi-role predator is perfectly possible, and provides very nice combat flexibility.

As for the TL LC vs. AC debate, the auto-cannon is only better at glancing AV10 when compared to the TL LC. It is statistically the same at penetrating AV10, as well as glancing AV11 as a TL LC. It is worse at everything else. 9% less likely to to pen AV11 and glance AV12. 18% less likely to pen AV12 and glance AV13. No chance above that.

And if you're looking for a killer, consider the following:

The TL LC has a 22% chance to explode AV10, 18% on AV11, 13% on AV12, 9% on AV13, and 4% on AV14.

The AC, by contrast:
11%, 7%, 4%, 0%, 0%

You have literally double the chance of popping transports with a single shot using the TL LC compared to the AC (1/5 vs. 1/10).

So I'd keep the TL LC if you can find the points for it and your goal is armour hunting.

 Aipoch wrote:
Just wanted to pipe in on the predator debate. First, figure out what you want it to do, and you don't have to stick with a single purpose. A multi-role predator is perfectly possible, and provides very nice combat flexibility.

As for the TL LC vs. AC debate, the auto-cannon is only better at glancing AV10 when compared to the TL LC. It is statistically the same at penetrating AV10, as well as glancing AV11 as a TL LC. It is worse at everything else. 9% less likely to to pen AV11 and glance AV12. 18% less likely to pen AV12 and glance AV13. No chance above that.

And if you're looking for a killer, consider the following:

The TL LC has a 22% chance to explode AV10, 18% on AV11, 13% on AV12, 9% on AV13, and 4% on AV14.

The AC, by contrast:
11%, 7%, 4%, 0%, 0%

You have literally double the chance of popping transports with a single shot using the TL LC compared to the AC (1/5 vs. 1/10).

So I'd keep the TL LC if you can find the points for it and your goal is armour hunting.

I mathed for AV12 glance. I didn't go into as much depth. Either way, IMHO i don't feel like the extra points are worth it for the TL LC when you have the side LC too.

As for CSM vs. cultists. The idea is to have more cultists for less than a CSM squad. If you're looking at parking on an objective and sitting there, neither are great options, but i'd rather have 20 cultists than 10 marines. If you want to objecetive camp then you want plague marines. The issue with CSM is how easy they are to take out for how expensive they are. Tournament winning lists never use CSM.

Oooo I forgot about the plaggue marines. I quite like their statline and their capabilite of holding objectives. However, I do not want units at rhe back holding objectives, iwant troops moving up in the rhinos w heavy support such as predators, heldrakes, obliterators and havocs. As for the predator argument I would rather take the full lascannon loadout cause I want the predator to specialise in tank hunting. I really don't think autocannons are that good at the roll I want the predator to fufill. Now imo faux zerkees might be a good option because they can say no to threats that want to assault them whilst being able to put out a reasonable amount of firepower.