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I seem to have two ways I play table top games. 1) Brain dead charge or 2) terrified wallflower trying to get in the "prefect" position. So far with my Everblight army its been one defeat after another( and most of them crushing). Most of the time my opponent pulls something out that lets him get the charge on me( and everblight doesn't seem to take hits well.)killing off my big expensive heavy or pulling my warlock in a bad spot.. After many defeats I'm starting to resent the army( does that sound crazy, to resenting an inanimate object?) and getting a case of the "grass is green" for some other armys. Case in point Menoth and Cygar.

So between Menoth and Cygar what army can take a hit better and doesn't need to get the first attack to win the game. Thank you for any input, even if its to tell me Learn to play n00b.

Menoth. The whole point of Menoth is weathering the initial charge using excellent jamming infantry and denial techniques and then counter punching with excessive force.

That said, your brain dead charge or wall flower techniques probably need some updating Just out of interest, how long have you been playing now? It can sometimes take quite a few games to work out the intracacies of an army and their playstyle, though obviously if you feel it doesn't fit you well after a reasonable period of testing, changing armies might be the way to go

How is your opponent getting charges against you? You're EVERBLIGHT aka king of alpha strike. Before recommending anything: How experienced with warmachine are you? What kind of terrain are you and your opponents playing with? What is your typical everblight list?

 Surtur wrote:
How is your opponent getting charges against you? You're EVERBLIGHT aka king of alpha strike. Before recommending anything: How experienced with warmachine are you? What kind of terrain are you and your opponents playing with? What is your typical everblight list?

Let me see if I can answer these questions.

1) How is your opponent getting charges against you?
At first when I started playing I darn near always got the first charges whether it be with my shredders or my Carnivean. They do their damage( and its good damage), but it far from a death blow and when counter attack comes I'm the one that get shattered. So I started be more careful, trying to get as many my units in the first charge as I could. That left me with a warlock kind of blowing in the wind and a opponent who still not dead. From that point I staring getting more units and try to "patch up" the weaknesses I saw ( or thought I saw) in my army. That approach only got me more losses and more frustration.

2) How experienced with warmachine are you?
Not very. A friend and I started playing this year with a hordes battle box. we really enjoyed it. So it became a weekly thing. There are now four of us that play almost ever week.

3)What kind of terrain are you and your opponents playing with?
Mostly open but with hills, houses, and the odd ruins here and there. not much rough, or impassable terrain.

4)What is your typical everblight list?
Right now I tend to go with Plylyth, Carnivean or Typhion, one or two shredders, and a set of melee troops(warspear, warmongers, swordsmen.)

I live under one creed. DO NOT SELL ARMIES. you will regret it.
Maybe not today, maybe not tommorow, but soon and for the rest of your life.
Also, go cygnar, they have a merc solo that can stop everblight beasts cold. And I hate everblight

Why did you chose Everblight? Do you like the faction? Are you looking to balance out your win/lose ratio to have a nice balanced army. Are you looking for a alpha strike auto win army? Id stick with them until you feel you have tried everything you could to make them fit your lay style. Throwing in the towel and moving on to something is just teaches you to give up when it doesnt work out.

If you haven't been playing for very long like you say, I would say you simply have a case of too little experience.

Everblight can be very nasty. There is a reason people call them "Legion of Everbroke". Their motto is "Where we're going, we don't need rules..."


Everblight's greatest strength is Eyeless Sight and Pathfinder on all their big beasts. Which means unless there is some rough terrain on the table you are missing out on a lot of the benefits. Forests are an easy way to get some variety into your terrain. Get some green felt, cut it into shape, stick a based tree on it, bam, you got yourself a forest.

Rough Terrain is an important component of Warmachine. I'm surprised your Circle friend hasn't been demanding more forests.

Legion is a great army. Keep at it, try new tactics even if they seem crazy. Don't be afraid to sacrifice one of your models/units to gain an edge(IE: stick a warbeast in easy charge range of the enemy. If they take the bait, you can counter charge them and kill what they sent to take your beast out)

 Warplock wrote:

 Surtur wrote:
How is your opponent getting charges against you? You're EVERBLIGHT aka king of alpha strike. Before recommending anything: How experienced with warmachine are you? What kind of terrain are you and your opponents playing with? What is your typical everblight list?

Let me see if I can answer these questions.

1) How is your opponent getting charges against you?
At first when I started playing I darn near always got the first charges whether it be with my shredders or my Carnivean. They do their damage( and its good damage), but it far from a death blow and when counter attack comes I'm the one that get shattered. So I started be more careful, trying to get as many my units in the first charge as I could. That left me with a warlock kind of blowing in the wind and a opponent who still not dead. From that point I staring getting more units and try to "patch up" the weaknesses I saw ( or thought I saw) in my army. That approach only got me more losses and more frustration.

4)What is your typical everblight list?
Right now I tend to go with Plylyth, Carnivean or Typhion, one or two shredders, and a set of melee troops(warspear, warmongers, swordsmen.)

These two questions pretty much answer your problem. You're not playing much beyond the Battleboxes at the moment. It's extremely hard to get how an army really comes together and plays at low points like that (you can't be playing more than 20 or so points with the above). You haven't even delved into the Alpha Striking at range capability of Legion. Once you expand you open up a lot more play options. Legion has the potential to be one of the fastest armies out there, that ignore a lot of the tricks other armies use to weather the opening salvos. While I love both Cygnar and Menoth, I can tell you from personal experience that I think my Legion was stronger on the table than either of them. I sold it a few years ago (for Menoth coincidently), and as HSM1 says, it does come with some regrets. Not that I've ever given a lot of thought about rebuying it, even when I had the opportunity to pick up a Hordes force again I chose Circle (which I quickly dropped because beyond the WWs I hated the aesthetic). I suggest trying out some different casters and warbeasts (Lylyth2, and Ravagores are great at that Alpha Strike thing), and higher points levels, a lot of people will shill for 50, but try 35 first. See how the different parts of your army can work together, don't be afraid to lose because of trying things. Eventually you'll figure out how to make it work.

 Warplock wrote:

 Surtur wrote:
How is your opponent getting charges against you? You're EVERBLIGHT aka king of alpha strike. Before recommending anything: How experienced with warmachine are you? What kind of terrain are you and your opponents playing with? What is your typical everblight list?

Let me see if I can answer these questions.

1) How is your opponent getting charges against you?
At first when I started playing I darn near always got the first charges whether it be with my shredders or my Carnivean. They do their damage( and its good damage), but it far from a death blow and when counter attack comes I'm the one that get shattered. So I started be more careful, trying to get as many my units in the first charge as I could. That left me with a warlock kind of blowing in the wind and a opponent who still not dead. From that point I staring getting more units and try to "patch up" the weaknesses I saw ( or thought I saw) in my army. That approach only got me more losses and more frustration.

2) How experienced with warmachine are you?
Not very. A friend and I started playing this year with a hordes battle box. we really enjoyed it. So it became a weekly thing. There are now four of us that play almost ever week.

3)What kind of terrain are you and your opponents playing with?
Mostly open but with hills, houses, and the odd ruins here and there. not much rough, or impassable terrain.

4)What is your typical everblight list?
Right now I tend to go with Plylyth, Carnivean or Typhion, one or two shredders, and a set of melee troops(warspear, warmongers, swordsmen.)

1) Nothing short of a Khador 25 arm jack or colossal should be survivng your carnivean's charge. If you're boosting damage rolls, this could be the problem. It's bite is PS 18 which means an average 5 damage each hit. On the charge, lead off with bite (after your assault spray attack) on the charge and after your initial attacks, just buy bite attacks. Shredders aren't going to do much damage to a jack/beast but are often great at solo hunting. Use them to support a jack kill if needed or send them to hunt their own prey. WIth parasite, a carnivean should be shredding what ever stands in your way.

2) So you're not very experienced, but you've been playing for a few months right? You may need to sit down with the rulebook and just do "homework." Reading the rules trying to patch up your knowledge can go a long way to improving your game. As everblight you'll want to read terrain and special rules in particular and for hordes, reread animus, damage spiral effects and fury mechanics rules. Key here being Animus rules, you can cast your warbeasts' animus freeing up their fury for killing stuffs which should be helping your carni survive the counter attack.

3) You should invest in a few forests. They are very dynamic in warmachine. They're rough terrain, cannot see farther than 2" through them and legion loves hanging out in them. I would go so far as to say no matter what armies are on the board, there's a 50/50 chance that a scythean is hiding in one of the forests waiting to murder everything.

4) Your army needs some work. I'm not a huge fan of lylyth, but she needs other things. Typhon is good, but he's expensive. A scythean is as fast as a carnivean, but with reach. This means he has a LONG charge range and good PS attacks + bloodbath. I would suggest swapping the two to free up a few points. Everblight has some amazing ranged units, raptors in particular. They're light cavalry with poisoned bows which means they're all sorts of nasty awesome. Cavalry are expensive money wise, but if you go to www.miniaturesmarket.com you'll find a 25% discount on em.

First off, thank you so much to everyone that responded. I've be giving it some thought and I've decided that i won't sell off my Everblight army, BUT it will under go...wait for it...a Culling!!

Just for reference here is a list of what I have now:

pLylyth
eThagrosh

Shredders x4
Stingers x2
Angelius
Carnivean
Typhon

Blighted Nyss Archers x6
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen x10(I bought a box and the received a box as a gift)
Blighted Nyss Swordsman Abbot & Champion
Blighted Ogrun Warmongers x5
Blighted Ogrun Warspears x5

Warmonger War Chief
Shepherd
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

I'm thinking of sell off everything except the warbeasts, The Shepherd, and the Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew. Then getting Absylonia, and 2 Forsaken and working off her themed army list for a bit( the one thing that really drew me to everblight was the warbeasts). With the extra money may be starting a Cygar or Menoth army( still can decide on what one I'd like to play more. Do they both play fairly differently from everblight?). Thoughts?

I started with Cygnar and I never really got rolling very well. I won some games, but never consistently.

I switched to Cryx (won a free battlebox so said, what the heck!) and I started winning a lot more. And even if I lost I felt like I had a chance.

Now I have large Cygnar and Cryx armies and do well with both. I just needed a change early on to help me get over the hump and help everything start to "click" into place.

I also have smaller 35ish point lists of Circle, Menoth and Legion (I traded the Khador) and plan on a Cyriss list at some point.

Playing other armies helps you learn their strengths and weaknesses. Also helps with the "Grass is Greener" syndrome that a lot of people have. While sometimes people simply "click" better with certain armies. But playing one faction over another is not going to turn you from a newbie into a world champion overnight.

And with the battleboxes and low model count armies this game is really easy to get a new 35 point list going for not too much money (compared to a lot of other games anyways).

 Warplock wrote:
First off, thank you so much to everyone that responded. I've be giving it some thought and I've decided that i won't sell off my Everblight army, BUT it will under go...wait for it...a Culling!!

Just for reference here is a list of what I have now:

pLylyth
eThagrosh

Shredders x4
Stingers x2
Angelius
Carnivean
Typhon

Blighted Nyss Archers x6
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen x10(I bought a box and the received a box as a gift)
Blighted Nyss Swordsman Abbot & Champion
Blighted Ogrun Warmongers x5
Blighted Ogrun Warspears x5

Warmonger War Chief
Shepherd
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

I'm thinking of sell off everything except the warbeasts, The Shepherd, and the Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew. Then getting Absylonia, and 2 Forsaken and working off her themed army list for a bit( the one thing that really drew me to everblight was the warbeasts). With the extra money may be starting a Cygar or Menoth army( still can decide on what one I'd like to play more. Do they both play fairly differently from everblight?). Thoughts?

I'd stick with what you've got and save up separately for a different army if you really want to go that route. The Ogrun are excellent army components, as they can act like turbo tar pit units and also do really well if you get the alpha strike with them. The swordsmen and archers aren't essential, so if you really want to sell off something then maybe you could part with them, but they still aren't bad by any means. Truth be told, just by picking up Absylonia and sticking with what you have right now, you wouldn't be doing too badly at all.

 Warplock wrote:
First off, thank you so much to everyone that responded. I've be giving it some thought and I've decided that i won't sell off my Everblight army, BUT it will under go...wait for it...a Culling!!

Just for reference here is a list of what I have now:

pLylyth
eThagrosh

Shredders x4
Stingers x2
Angelius
Carnivean
Typhon

Blighted Nyss Archers x6
Blighted Nyss Swordsmen x10(I bought a box and the received a box as a gift)
Blighted Nyss Swordsman Abbot & Champion
Blighted Ogrun Warmongers x5
Blighted Ogrun Warspears x5

Warmonger War Chief
Shepherd
Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew

I'm thinking of sell off everything except the warbeasts, The Shepherd, and the Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew. Then getting Absylonia, and 2 Forsaken and working off her themed army list for a bit( the one thing that really drew me to everblight was the warbeasts). With the extra money may be starting a Cygar or Menoth army( still can decide on what one I'd like to play more. Do they both play fairly differently from everblight?). Thoughts?

Thaggy in either version likes Warbeasts. EThags in particular runs beasties well, most particularly shredder spam. Your infantry is solid, but I would recommend the archer's UA and filling it out to full. Solos, maybe grabbing a forsaken for alternative to shepherd. Warbeasts needs some work though, imo. Angelius is neat, but I find it lacking for 9 points. Single shot ranged attack is bleh and the arm piercing is nice, but only one attack so it's very limited after it's first attack that round. The seraph on the other hand, is godsend. It's animus can create headaches for your opponent as you alter charge lanes or leap frog heavy hitters into charge range. eThags loves getting into melee with other casters. Those casters do not. Seraph also has multi shot ranged and crit poison on melee making it a better combat choice as well. Like I mentioned before, Scythean is scary, you should get one. Aby + some more warbeast diversity will probably satisfy your desires to win. Don't stop believing!