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Very simple question's

A friend of mine plays A Farsight Enclave army....suits galore. Now I am happy that suits can deep strike. But I was under the impression that after deep striking no moving or assaulting was allowed what so ever. Now he deep strikes in, and then uses jet packs in the assault phase to get out the way of my weaponry....this doesn't seem right to me?

Also, when a unit regroups it clearly states that no moves of any kind are allowed, and yet he is convinced that once they re group they are allowed to jet pack in the assault phase again.

Can anyone please clear this up for me? Perhaps he is right, I just want an opinion/other people's experience.

Check the rules for thrust moves under Jet Pack units in the BRB, I believe party of your answer lies there.

pg 31 for regrouping ( you are correct there)

pg 47 for jet packs ( he is correct there )

books are wonderful things.

Sweet, that answers the deep strike question pretty comprehensively! (I was reading the deep strike rules) but I'm still not convinced on the regroup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I showed him that regroup page. However, his counter was that they are not 'assaulting' in the assault phase, they are jet packing in the assault phase and there was nothing that says they couldn't do that. I argued, he got irritable, I conceded and let him get on with it, but I didn't think it was right!

Also, do jet packs fall back 2 or 3D6? I thought it was 2 as per normal infantry, but he thinks its 3 as per jump infantry? As far as I was aware they are not jump infantry....

3D6 fall back.

jet packs are not jump troops..2 different kinds of troops and rules, their fall back is found on pg 425 (hint nosferatu1001 is incorrect )

A successful regroup is allowed a 3" move and NOTHING else for that turn, the rules spell that out pretty well, and nothing in the Tau codex conflicts with the BRB in this case.

Jet Pack Infantry (p. 41 Tau Codex)

Jet Pack movement p. 47 (little rule book) = 2d6

They are *not* Jump units, they are Jet Pack Infantry units.

Movement Phase = 6"

Assault Phase = 2d6"

They *can* move in the Assault Phase after arriving via Deep Strike (p. 36 LRB) because they aren't charging.

edit:

However, after reading the rules on Regrouping, it states that they "cannot otherwise move" and gives examples such as Running in the Shooting phase and charging during the Assault phase. But, because the unit is doing neither of those things (it is Thrust moving in the Assault phase), I can see how it may be....discussed....and interpreted both ways. However, I think when it says "cannot otherwise move" that means no more moving at all by any means.

making an assault move is moving. they cannot "otherwise" move. This is "otherwise" movement, and is absolutely prohibited.

I don't have a page 425......

Your little rulebook is the same ruleswise as the main rulebook, with the page numbers the same prior to the "big"books hobby section.

a good rule to go by when reading GW rules is not to look for loopholes, and read what is stated as stated, if a units type does not state a exception to a rule, then it is effected by the rule as normal.

Pg 425 is a summary table with all fall backs and movement printed, but as others have stated its 2d6", unless specifically stated all units fall back 2d6", pg 47 should be a good example of this, it states a exception for jump packs , but not for jet packs, tell your opponent to stop trying to read into rules what is not there..or I will send the XV-9 team of "stop being a D-bag" to his house.

I still don't have a page 425. Mine goes up to 156!

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I still don't have a page 425. Mine goes up to 156!

You have the "Little" Rule Book. All the rules are the same. Use my post above as a guide for the page numbers in the LRB.

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I still don't have a page 425. Mine goes up to 156!

Little rulebook page 149 is the one they are referencing.

 TheMeanDM wrote:

However, after reading the rules on Regrouping, it states that they "cannot otherwise move" and gives examples such as Running in the Shooting phase and charging during the Assault phase. But, because the unit is doing neither of those things (it is Thrust moving in the Assault phase), I can see how it may be....discussed....and interpreted both ways. However, I think when it says "cannot otherwise move" that means no more moving at all by any means.

The thrust move is instead of making a charge in the assault phase though. Since they can't move to make an assault, the thrust move would be out as well.

So then models without ranged weapons cannot run? After all, if they can't shoot they can't do something instead of shooting.

Not to mention that you can not issue a charge unless you meet a wide range of conditions allowing you to charge in the first place. Given that the weapon systems on battle-suits, with only flamers as an exception if I remember, are not assault weapons then you would never be able to jump-shoot-jump if Helotaxi is correct. It would render the well known tactic of jump-shoot-jump to be completely illegal, which is clearly not the case given how wide spread this tactic is and how it is used in official tournaments by all Tau players.

It is far more likely that instead means what it does for a lot of other rules: Regardless of the rules, limitations and restrictions of Option A you can chose instead to do Option B.

Regardless of the results of the "instead of" debate after you regroup you "cannot otherwise move". The jet pack rules give you no such permission to ignore this restriction. Unless you can prove RAW that a "thrust move" is not actually moving.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
3D6 fall back.

Incorrect.

Jet Pack fall back 2D6. (I'm sure you're just incorrectly remembering 5e, as I thought so too until recently )
Both page 425 and 47 support this.

It had already been corrected, and yes, was thinking of 5th.

Warfrog wrote:
Regardless of the results of the "instead of" debate after you regroup you "cannot otherwise move". The jet pack rules give you no such permission to ignore this restriction. Unless you can prove RAW that a "thrust move" is not actually moving.

Pg 36 (mini book) says "in the movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any bfurther... "(Unless to disembark) ...
And you can perform a jetpack move if you're "not locked in combat or charging."

So..by those two rules, it would seem that you can make a thrust move after the deep strike. I don't have the FAQs handy though, only the BRB.

 Akula wrote:

Warfrog wrote:
Regardless of the results of the "instead of" debate after you regroup you "cannot otherwise move". The jet pack rules give you no such permission to ignore this restriction. Unless you can prove RAW that a "thrust move" is not actually moving.

Pg 36 (mini book) says "in the movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any bfurther... "(Unless to disembark) ...
And you can perform a jetpack move if you're "not locked in combat or charging."

So..by those two rules, it would seem that you can make a thrust move after the deep strike. I don't have the FAQs handy though, only the BRB.

I don't disagree that you can thrust move after deep striking. There is a rule in jetpack infantry section that says that you can do just that. My post was about thrust moves after regrouping.

I can see the argument both ways...
Regrouping says that you can't otherwise move... but Thrust Move says that you can do it if you're not charging or engaged.
I think, though, the "otherwise move" is the key to the question.
Does Thrust Move fall into the "otherwise move" category? I think it does... although a clear answer in an FAQ would be nice.

It pains me when valuable lines in an FAQ are taken up by self answering questions like:
"Can a Broadside purchase submunitions?"
And
"Can a model armed with two pistols shoot two witchfire powers?"

Also...formatting on the screen of a mobile phone is all sorts of bonkers.

"cannot otehrwise move" MUST trump "can move...." - its how the game is written.

Thrust move would have to *specify* you can do this even if you have regoruped for it to override.

Deepstriking only denies Movement and Assault. Running or "Thrust Moves" are different and totally legal. If tau suits couldnt do that after using their jet packs for another reason, i dont think anyone would use anything except castle-tau with long range guns and literally never ever bring suits lol