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Unforgiven was a classic and the penultimate, end of a whole genre Western movie.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Unforgiven was a classic and the penultimate, end of a whole genre Western movie.
Would you like a list of Samurai to Western and Western to Samurai films? It is a long list since the two go back to almost the beginning of cinema; these two genres are intertwined historically. It seems only fair that they remake a Clint Eastwood film considering Eastwood became famous in westerns based on Samurai films.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Which ones pray tell did Eastwood get famous in that were from Japanese films. He was made famous in rawhide and spaghetti westerns.
You're thinking of other movies.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Yeah, I got to agree that getting precious about a Japanese samurai remake of a classic Western is pretty silly. The two forms of cinema have drawn from each other for decades, to the benefit of both. I can imagine Japanese cinephiles got all precious and started complaining when Hollywood remade Seven Samurai...
Also, Ken Watanabe.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Frazzled wrote: Which ones pray tell did Eastwood get famous in that were from Japanese films. He was made famous in rawhide and spaghetti westerns.
You're thinking of other movies.
Fistfull of Dollars was was a remake of Yojimbo, collectively "The Man With No Name" series is directly influenced by Sanjuro and Yojimbo. There are several good books on the subject of how Western films influenced Samurai films, and vice versa if you want to learn more.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I think that samurai flicks and western flicks are both pretty close in tone and theme some of the time. It'd be nice to see a samurai film for once that isn't all 'westernized.' You know, where the samurai are the landed thugs repressing a disarmed populace. Given the general freedom from the whole scale of morality that you see in Unforgiven, I'd bee really interested to see it applied to the samurai genre. I would worry about changing the core themes of the film, but that's just me.
Still, I'd love to give it a watch. It has the potential to be really amazing. It also has the potential to suck beyond belief, but I'm trying to stay positive.
Jimsolo wrote: I think that samurai flicks and western flicks are both pretty close in tone and theme some of the time. It'd be nice to see a samurai film for once that isn't all 'westernized.'
Could you be a bit more clear? Are you referring to Westerns the genre or western the colloquial term for Europe and North America? When we have been talking about Westerns and Samurai we have been talking about the genre of film, not the people or the western powers.
Jimsolo wrote: You know, where the samurai are the landed thugs repressing a disarmed populace.
For a great deal of their history that is what they did, but this isn't that time period.
Jimsolo wrote: Given the general freedom from the whole scale of morality that you see in Unforgiven
I'm not sure what you mean here; Unforgiven was all about morality, not free of it.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Jimsolo wrote: I think that samurai flicks and western flicks are both pretty close in tone and theme some of the time. It'd be nice to see a samurai film for once that isn't all 'westernized.'
Could you be a bit more clear? Are you referring to Westerns the genre or western the colloquial term for Europe and North America? When we have been talking about Westerns and Samurai we have been talking about the genre of film, not the people or the western powers.
I apologize. Didn't even realize that. My bad. Been dealing with a sick kid, so my posts aren't up to the normal level of composition I expect. Haha. When I said 'westernized' I was referring to western culture, not the western genre. Although I'm a big fan of not going on whiny tangents on how much I hate this or that, I'm kind of tired of most samurai-themed entertainment I see. I'd like to see a samurai depicted as something other than a shining paragon of bygone virtue, defiantly holding on to a set of idealistic yet antiquated morals in the face of progress and social amorality. I think it would be refreshing to see samurai depicted with a little bit of dirt on them, metaphorically speaking. Carrying the essential nature of William Munny's character into a samurai setting would really, really go a long way to accomplishing that.
Jimsolo wrote: You know, where the samurai are the landed thugs repressing a disarmed populace.
For a great deal of their history that is what they did, but this isn't that time period.
Hrmm. I'll admit that I'm not as deep into Japanese history as some of my gamer peers. (Largely due to an aversion to the Japanese-worship that you occasionally see.) My prejudice leaves me at a disadvantage, so in the interests of curiosity: which period will it be set in, and what kind of behavior/image/role can we expect from the samurai if it is being historically accurate? (Or as historically accurate as a film intended primarily for entertainment is likely to be?)
Jimsolo wrote: Given the general freedom from the whole scale of morality that you see in Unforgiven
I'm not sure what you mean here; Unforgiven was all about morality, not free of it.
Hmmm. That's an interesting interpretation. I'll hide this next bit for the benefit of the two people who spent the last 12 years living in outer Mongolia with their fingers in their ears, and missed Unforgiven.
Spoiler:
I always saw the movie as showing a world where there was no good or evil, just actions. (You could alternatively view it as a world where everyone's evil if you wanted to, but I don't really get that vibe. Others have said that, though, so I include that view for completeness.) If there is no permanent stain of good or evil, just actions, then redemption is only a matter of allowing yourself to be redeemed, which is the realization that finally allows Will Munny to achieve some peace.
I guess what I meant when I said I wanted to see it uphold the same themes is that I would be disappointed if the main character was some angelic knight on a quest for redemption. I'd like to see the main character not just with a questionable past, but a morally questionable present and future as well. If it's going to be a good conversion of Unforgiven, I think it should leave some room for debate about whether the main character is good, evil, or something in between. Answering that question definitively will break the spell of the original, and while it won't necessarily spoil the new movie as a whole, it would certainly disappoint me.
Is that a reasonable position, or am I way off base here?
Unforgiven was a classic and the penultimate, end of a whole genre Western movie.
A Fistful of Dollars and The Magnificent Seven were remakes of two of the best feudal Japanese period pieces ever.
Why not cross the streams and have a Meiji-era remake of one of the best westerns ever?
This looks amazing and I'm sold.
Eastwood was not in Magnificent Seven. Someone has to show a cite where Italians stole Fistful of Dollars from the Japanese.
I have no probblem with either, but again - Unforgien is the classic American film with a very specific mood and some of the best actors, well ever. You can recreate the plot but you can't recreate the movie.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
snurl wrote: Since this is a "western" movie adapted for the far east, would this be a new genre called an "Eastern" ?
You're good...too good...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/29 11:08:20
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
As noted, Although I like Watanabe, I can't get past a film that had Eastwood, Gene Hackett, Richard Harris, AND Morgan Freeman in it. Too much like a remake for me.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
I didn't get that from Unforgiven at all. I got the plot of a homicidal maniac when drunk had sobered up, and events led him back down the fall. Additionally a coplot of a reporter moving from fake to the bloody real as he moves from more lethal to more lethal character.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Frazzled wrote: As noted, Although I like Watanabe, I can't get past a film that had Eastwood, Gene Hackett, Richard Harris, AND Morgan Freeman in it. Too much like a remake for me.
Okay.. so don't watch it?
I for one look forward to this. Never watched the original (Because frankly cowboys bore me to tears).
Frazzled wrote: As noted, Although I like Watanabe, I can't get past a film that had Eastwood, Gene Hackett, Richard Harris, AND Morgan Freeman in it. Too much like a remake for me.
Okay.. so don't watch it?
I for one look forward to this. Never watched the original (Because frankly cowboys bore me to tears).
Thats kind of what I said. I have nothing against it and hope others enjoy it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Envisions Hondo as a Sumo wrestler...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/29 16:59:19
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Given the general freedom from the whole scale of morality that you see in Unforgiven, I'd bee really interested to see it applied to the samurai genre. I would worry about changing the core themes of the film, but that's just me.
