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Are these any good? I may be able to get a bucketload of the dudes for cheap, but not sure if its worth it. If not, I might make them into MegaNobz...

Would be able to run them as SM Termies, Chaos, Grey Knights, or anything else. Of course we don't know about the new Space Marines though...

DA can do termies pretty decently, imo. Others, of course, disagree.


The new SM dex drops soon. Maybe that will allow a good termi-spam army too.

Failing that - Meganobz iz bestest.

Grey Knights have Terminators as a standard Troop choice. Then you take Paladins (Elite Termiantors) and then you take Dreadknights (big monstrous Terminators). A whole army of Terminators.

Terminator armies are so tough to play. So few minis and with the abundance of ap2 shooting its hard to do what they do best

Dragiowing is still effective with allies.

They are okay. In any of the termi armies they are finesse units and if used incorrectly will die faster than an eldar army...so like butter on a hot sidewalk.

DA do them pretty well. They have DWA which is really nice and can mix and match weapons.

The GK do paladins really well but termies are somewhat lackluster in that book compared to paladins with FnP. You can even make them scoring with draigo or even a simple grand strategy.

The new SM dex is coming so no way of knowing until it comes out.

just don't think they are tough units. They are really fragile expensive units that can reduce some forms of attack.

Ok, so lots of love for Dark Angels and Grey Knights...

Are Chaos Termies rubbish then?

Not at all. They just are not an army onto themselves. Actually with combi-flamer/melta/plasma and with proper support I would say they are some of the best.

Oblits are of course excellent and probably my top 5 all time favorite chaos units.

Chaos termies are the best termies. They have the best weapon options and are absurdly cheap. And then you can take marks, etc. The only problem with them is that they don't score. If you use them to contest obejctives, this won't matter ALL that much, though.

The thing with termies, though, is that, used smartly, they're not that much durable than their points in troops choices (used stupidly, of course, they just die straight away), and, depending on how things are, they don't kill that much better than them either. As such, it's about as difficult to play terminator armies as to play an all-troops army. The one benefit they get, though, is deepstrike, so they're troops that you can use in clever ways. If you're not very clever, though, then you're more or less only paying for models that look cool, rather than are better.

... of course... they do look pretty damn cool.

All Terminator armies aren't very competitive. Draigo-wing is probably the most competitive of them all, and it does very well at certain things, but is generally less competitive than other Grey Knights builds.


Basically, because you have so few models, a few bad rolls can really screw you horribly. Also, in a 1,500 point Deathwing army you're bringing a maximum of 5 heavy weapons and they're all pretty weak. The strength lies in having almost 30 Powerfist-armed models. If your opponent's army isn't terribly troubled by that (i.e., Orks, Spawn, Daemons, Dark Eldar, some CSM builds, Tau...), then you really don't have any advantages over your opponent.


Most armies offer advantages. At best, all-Terminator armies offer portability and that's about it.



The only way I've found to play Deathwing that doesn't completely suck ass, is...

1) Run half of your squads with Cyclone Missile Launchers so they can deploy on the table and shoot T1. Deploy centrally so the opponent can't concentrate his army.
2) DWA everything else on Turn 1. Deepstrike everything hard onto a distant flank and grab First Blood. Advance the CML squads in this direction.
3) Try to eat your opponent's army piecemeal. The only way you're going to win is if you only have to fight ~25% of his army at a time, with >50% of your army.


However, even with competent generalship and your best efforts, all-Terminator armies still fail miserably against competent opponents with decent lists. I only run the army when I want to play with kids gloves, or I can't bring anything else because I'm traveling.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
1) (...) Deploy centrally so the opponent can't concentrate his army.
3) Try to eat your opponent's army piecemeal. The only way you're going to win is if you only have to fight ~25% of his army at a time, with >50% of your army.

While I agree with most of your post - these two points are at direct odds with each other. Why would you deploy centrally, where your opponent can gather up anything he's put on the sides towards the middle as well?
Try to deploy second and use one flank only - anything over on the other side is then going to struggle to catch up. If you're forced to go first, spread out a bit to try and goad your opponent into spreading out too, but plan to use any faster units (that is - anything in a Land Raider) to quickly dash over to the one side on your first turn.

Well, it doesn't have to be all Terminator, but if the majority is that is what I'm looking at.

Anyone tried Terminators in Zone Mortalis, Space Hulk style? Thats the real appeal of these guys tbh because of those nasty AP2 large blasts wiping out whole squads of the emperors finest...

I think Termi lists are fun! Or at least look it. The others have brought up the flaws to them, the fact you'll have so little on the field on top of the fact a few bad rolls coupled with a good player may mean you'll lose those guys pretty quick. Super Ready really did hit the mark with his suggestion of baiting and luring your foe to spread themselves out and use a LR to get your guys to make them suffer for falling for the plan. I'm still new at this so I think if you're in it for fun run it! if not then maybe it would be best to go for something else

I've already got Orks for fun, hoping to find a 'competitive' way to run them because winning on occasion is nice

If by "competitive" you mean "easy", then keep moving. Termiantor armies aren't easy. Of course, if by "competitive" you mean "challenging", then yes, terminator lists offer that.

A terminator army's effectiveness depends entirely on the opponents list - sure luck and skill come into play, but the lists matter a lot in these matchups.

A dark eldar/eldar lance spam army would completely outmaneuver terminators and ignore their 2+ saves entirely.

A farsight enclave army (such as the one I run) packs 10 plasma rifles and 6 fusion blasters + all the non AP 1 & 2 weapons @ 1500 pts. The list just obliterates marine armies - terminators fair much worse as there are less bodies and have fewer transport options.

IG vet armies just sit in their chimeras and blast your with plasma/melta guns while vendettas/LRBT hammer you with blast templates and hull mounted lascannons.

That is just a few examples of popular lists that can completely disable a terminator heavy list.

I love me some Termies, but it is difficult to be competitive with. You absolutely can, but you really can't afford to screw up, as losing a "unit" usually equates to about 300+ points. Go for it, but expect some growing pains until you get the kinks worked out.

 Super Ready wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
1) (...) Deploy centrally so the opponent can't concentrate his army.
3) Try to eat your opponent's army piecemeal. The only way you're going to win is if you only have to fight ~25% of his army at a time, with >50% of your army.

While I agree with most of your post - these two points are at direct odds with each other. Why would you deploy centrally, where your opponent can gather up anything he's put on the sides towards the middle as well?
Try to deploy second and use one flank only - anything over on the other side is then going to struggle to catch up. If you're forced to go first, spread out a bit to try and goad your opponent into spreading out too, but plan to use any faster units (that is - anything in a Land Raider) to quickly dash over to the one side on your first turn.

You only deploy the parts of your army that you MUST deploy, since only half of your units can go in reserve.

If you go first, you should deploy centrally so that your opponent has to spread out (he doesn't know where your reserves will come in). When you DS, DS everything onto one flank and start pushing in that direction. I should have made that more clear - You don't deploy EVERYTHING centrally, only the things that MUST deploy.

If you want competitive (aka tau triple riptide spam) keep going but If your looking fora army that will challenge you to become a better 40k player terminator armies will do that.

I just played in a tournament and came close to tabling a gray knights player, tied a dark eldar/eldar army (I got lucky and killed all his troops) then got tabled by tau triple riptide. You can do ok in tournaments you just have to pray that you get good match ups. Besides my first game I got the two worst armies for me to play against. ( well maby also add necron flyer spam or IG flyer spam) but you get my point. So if your looking to go win a big tournament look elsewhere.

spam all hammer storm sheilds and deepstrike them in.

without the 3++ i think they are pretty much crap.

and chaos termies suck

kb305 wrote:
spam all hammer storm sheilds and deepstrike them in.

without the 3++ i think they are pretty much crap.

and chaos termies suck

Well, that equates to how much we should listen to you from now on this subject. Spamming Hammers is a terrible idea if your going to deep strike them in. They can't charge, they can scatter, then can mishap, and they are all bunched up ready to eat plasma cannons. This unit will die before it can charge by most armies (Dakka Dark/Eldar, Tau, Ig, Necrons, Sisters, any type or marine with lots of plasma/vindicator), get assaulted and die before it can swing (Ork Horde, WraithWing, Assault Dark/Eldar deathstars), will be simply out maneuvered (Any type of Mech army, flying circus) or will be tarpitted into uselessness (Tyranids, Daemons, blob guard). Hammers are good anti elite, terrible anti infantry and mediocre anti tank thanks to how slow they are. 3++ only goes so far when you get drowned in wounds because you deepstuck into rapidfire range of his entire army.

And in a side note, Chaos termies are one of the best termies there are, they just fulfill a different role to other termies. A unit of 3 with 3 combi melta's make an excellent suicide squad and marks give them more choices then other termies. They are cheap base, can get a butt load of power weapons and Marks to increase their durability (T5 is better then a stormshield vs everything that isn't AP 2, there are a lot more none AP 2 things...) or make them extra killy (Rage induced death machines with 4 power weapon attacks each). Then they have access to FAR better HQ support then other termies and are in a slot that has very few other good things in it. So yeah...well done.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

kb305 wrote:
spam all hammer storm sheilds and deepstrike them in.

without the 3++ i think they are pretty much crap.

and chaos termies suck

Well, that equates to how much we should listen to you from now on this subject. Spamming Hammers is a terrible idea if your going to deep strike them in. They can't charge, they can scatter, then can mishap, and they are all bunched up ready to eat plasma cannons. This unit will die before it can charge by most armies (Dakka Dark/Eldar, Tau, Ig, Necrons, Sisters, any type or marine with lots of plasma/vindicator), get assaulted and die before it can swing (Ork Horde, WraithWing, Assault Dark/Eldar deathstars), will be simply out maneuvered (Any type of Mech army, flying circus) or will be tarpitted into uselessness (Tyranids, Daemons, blob guard). Hammers are good anti elite, terrible anti infantry and mediocre anti tank thanks to how slow they are. 3++ only goes so far when you get drowned in wounds because you deepstuck into rapidfire range of his entire army.

And in a side note, Chaos termies are one of the best termies there are, they just fulfill a different role to other termies. A unit of 3 with 3 combi melta's make an excellent suicide squad and marks give them more choices then other termies. They are cheap base, can get a butt load of power weapons and Marks to increase their durability (T5 is better then a stormshield vs everything that isn't AP 2, there are a lot more none AP 2 things...) or make them extra killy (Rage induced death machines with 4 power weapon attacks each). Then they have access to FAR better HQ support then other termies and are in a slot that has very few other good things in it. So yeah...well done.

ya, i forgot about flyers, was thinking more in a 5th edition mindset but shooty terminators wont beable to scratch fliers either anyway so it makes no difference.
doesnt dark angels not scatter, they just land wherever you want or osmething? i forget the details.

obviously tau/eldar could out cheese this pretty easily but they out cheese everyone, so again it doesnt really matter.

most of that shooting would just bounce off because of the 3++ and i dont think plasma cannons are all that popular. and you would have a whole army of them, they wont beable to kill them all or even close. drop behind LOS blocking terrain is also an option.

That 3++ doesn't matter even the slightest to many armies shooting. Orks, Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tau, Necrons, IG and Dark Angles Dakka Bikes can put enough wounds on you to simply kill off entire untis by forcing you to roll those eventual 1's. If your whole army is these, then that means you will have weak troops and weak anti vehicle (Strength 8 hammers all you like, most things you won't catch and Land Raiders will simply roll on through) and horde. This may work against some local kid at the FLG who simply isn't ready for this, but any gamer worth their salt should be able to avoid/ kill off some assault termies while killing off your troops and playing the objectives.

Psycannons on GKT or Paladins can kill flyers, as well as AV14. Just say'n.

SJ

the assault terminators would be my troops. or is that not possible with dark angels? I havnt actually read the codex.

that's the whole point of this fricken thread. whatever, you could have fun "easily" killing off my 40-50 storm shields.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Psycannons on GKT or Paladins can kill flyers, as well as AV14. Just say'n.

SJ

youre right, for an all terminator army that would prob be even better. as many psycannons as you can take. would regular or paladins be better? prob paladins because they can cram in more psycannons.

With Paladins, you need to pay the Draigo tax to make them worth taking in lower point lists (not a bad tax, as Draigo is still a beast and the only real "tank" in the GK codex). Paladins are the better unit in TDA, yet the GKT are troops without paying a tax, cost less per unit, and have functionally the same role. Paladins do make a better "Deathstar", though.

However, I love my GKT, and run 2 full units in my Ghostwing. 27 TDA at 1500pts is very rewarding to play, if not exactly competitive in todays meta. Makes me a better player to play an underdog list than to play a point-and-click net-list.

SJ