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I played against blood angels the other day and feel no pain sucked. You get to roll an armor save then roll a feel no pain save if the armor save fails? And what about low ap values like plasma and meltas, do they still get fnp if they can't make an armor save anyway?

You get to roll FNP if the save fails, and can take it against anything that doesn't inflict ID.

This is not the forum you're looking for.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/15.page

Also, because relevant, and I missed it when first learning, weapons with a strenght of two times your toughness cause instant death as if they had the special rule, rather than anything else, and DO deny FNP.

Might have just been me being dumb though.

In all honesty, it's not actually that bad now - FNP used to be a lot handier when it was 4+ instead of 5+. This nerf (and a couple of others) combined with Blood Angels having higher points costs means you shouldn't be having a massively difficult time with them anyway. You may be able to use Precision Shots or Challenges or similar to take out the source of FNP - Sanguinary Priests - which means the buff is lost, although Death Company in particular get it by themselves so those you have to kill the hard way.

Otherwise, as mentioned, anything S8 or up or that causes Instant Death anyway will ignore FNP.

 Super Ready wrote:

Otherwise, as mentioned, anything S8 or up or that causes Instant Death anyway will ignore FNP.

That is assuming the model with Feel No Pain is T4.

 Super Ready wrote:
In all honesty, it's not actually that bad now - FNP used to be a lot handier when it was 4+ instead of 5+.

No, FNP is far better now. It's only negated by ID, not every AP1 or 2 weapon (of which there are a lot). You can sit plague marines on area terrain and get two 5+ saves against freaking lascannons. Sure, you could laugh off small-arms fire with FNP last edition, but as soon as the enemy turned a big gun at you, you went up in smoke.

@OP. Yes, FNP is an extra 5+ save you are allowed to make in addition to your armour/invulnerable save. The only time you are not allowed to take it is against a wound that would cause Instant Death.

Ghaz wrote:That is assuming the model with Feel No Pain is T4.

Very true, but outside of bikes, Mephiston and non-guaranteed psychic powers everything in the book with a Toughness value is at T4. It's the important value to consider.

The Shadow wrote:No, FNP is far better now. It's only negated by ID, not every AP1 or 2 weapon (of which there are a lot). You can sit plague marines on area terrain and get two 5+ saves against freaking lascannons. Sure, you could laugh off small-arms fire with FNP last edition, but as soon as the enemy turned a big gun at you, you went up in smoke.

For Plague Marines, it's a bit different - you're looking at one or two units in a bigger army that are at T5 already anyway. For them FNP was improved because they get a lot of higher Strength (therefore AP1/2 weapons) pointed at them - and because they're T5, they get it against anything under S10.
Blood Angels use FNP as part of their survivability across pretty much the whole army. That whole army is not being shot solely with AP1/2 weapons, there are a lot of lower AP weapons as well. No army has access to more AP1/2 than its basic weapon except for Wraithguard. On which note - as a Blood Angels player I can confidently say I would much rather have old FNP back, any day.

Yeah, I play Marines and thought FNP got nerfed in the edition change. I'm not complaining about the change, but I can't see any way of thinking that it's better now.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I can't see any way of thinking that it's better now.

A Space Marine with FNP in the last edition hit by a Plasmagun got no saves at all.
Same Marine in this edition now gets the 5+ from FNP.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I can't see any way of thinking that it's better now.

A Space Marine with FNP in the last edition hit by a Plasmagun got no saves at all.
Same Marine in this edition now gets the 5+ from FNP.

Also a space marine on a bike gets hit with a meltagun or lascannon now gets the 5+ from FNP this edition.

So there are a few instances where it is better.