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Hi Dakka,

Inspired by a couple of recent threads I'm going to start a Space Wolf army. But with Wolves (Fenrisian and TWC as these and drop pods are the main reasons I want a SW army). I've got the codex and started going through it, but have a couple of questions (I've been through the 6th Ed Space Wolf Tactica - thanks Andilus!).

1) Njal - Is the staff of the Stormcaller a Force Stave? The FAQ just says Stave and I can't find strength and AP details in my electronic BRB for a "stave". Also, does Nightwing let you place a marker per Chooser of the Slain? I'm confused by the wording in the codex - I think you get to place a marker plus get the bonus attacks with someone in base contact. Whats the AP of the Nightwing attack - I'm assuming AP-.

I'm looking closely at Njal for higher points lists, because with so many wolves running around I need someone who can do some damage (in addition to Canis and a couple of rune priests). Has anyone tried running Njal with Biomancy powers?

2) Mark of the Wulfen - I can't find the reference to these attacks being AP2 which I read in the Tactica. Can someone point me to it? Is it worthwhile on TWC (if it is AP2 I'm assuming that's a yes!)

3) Does the GH carrying a standard still get weapons and attacks? I assume so as it doesn't reference the standard replacing anything.

4) Frost Blade vs Frost Axe - As I'm planning on using WG terminators to deal with terminators, Frost blades on the TWC and for the WG pack leaders seems better - cos you get to strike at normal init. As Frost axes make you strike at I1 anyway, if you have points, might as well get a TH or PF. On the table are people taking frost axes? If so, why?

5) If I buy a drop pod for, say, Long Fangs, but don't use it for them, can I put a lone wolf in it?

6) Heavy Support: As I will be wolf heavy (Fenrisian plus TWC) and will have most things in drop pods, I'm not going to have a lot of points to throw around. I'm thinking I need an ADL with comms relay so I can (hopefully) get all my units in by T2. However, I'm thinking that getting the quad gun would be useful. If I do that, I'll probably dispense with LF and have a pair of Vindicators behind the ADL. Thoughts?

7) I'm thinking about putting deathwind launchers in half the pods, and using them to set up a sort of artillery line. I know the pods will die, but I need a reason for the opponent to shoot at the Pods rather than the incoming wolf packs and TWC. Comments on this would be great.

8) Speaking of distractions, my main concern with the list I'm proposing is that I'll have a lot of combat power tied up in units with pathetic leadership. So, I had an idea - put Bjorn in a stolen Pod - Drop him T1 right next to the enemy and hope they kill him. Then the whole SW army becomes fearless. Can I do that - put Bjorn in a stolen pod I mean? I reckon that having the entire army become fearless would be worth 270 points (given the composition of the list) + if they are shooting at Bjorn they aren't shooting at my wolves - what do you think?

Thanks Dakka!

5) If I buy a drop pod for, say, Long Fangs, but don't use it for them, can I put a lone wolf in it?

You cannot deploy in another units dedicated transport, I believe this applies to transports such as drop pods entering the game from reserve aswell. You can drop the pod empty and deploy the long fangs as usual, or deploy the long fangs via their pod, but the lone wolf wouldnt get to ride it.

MarkCron wrote:
1) Njal - Is the staff of the Stormcaller a Force Stave? The FAQ just says Stave and I can't find strength and AP details in my electronic BRB for a "stave". Also, does Nightwing let you place a marker per Chooser of the Slain? I'm confused by the wording in the codex - I think you get to place a marker plus get the bonus attacks with someone in base contact. Whats the AP of the Nightwing attack - I'm assuming AP-.

I'm looking closely at Njal for higher points lists, because with so many wolves running around I need someone who can do some damage (in addition to Canis and a couple of rune priests). Has anyone tried running Njal with Biomancy powers?

The weapon is a Force Stave, which is the same as a Power Maul with the Force special rule. Nightwing is a Chooser of the Slain and you get the bonus attacks at AP- in addition.

As for Njal's powers, I'd never take anything but Space Wolves powers on him. If you want Rulebook powers, take a Rune Priest. Njal gets all the Codex powers, giving him a lot of flexibility. Taking Rulebook powers means he only gets 2 (totally random) powers for ~140pts more than a regular Rune Priest.

MarkCron wrote:
2) Mark of the Wulfen - I can't find the reference to these attacks being AP2 which I read in the Tactica. Can someone point me to it? Is it worthwhile on TWC (if it is AP2 I'm assuming that's a yes!)

Against non-vehicle enemies, to wound rolls of 6 are AP2 due to Rending. MotW is NOT worth it on TWC though because it replaces their attacks value with D6, so there's a 2/3 chance they'll get less or equal numbers of attacks. The fact that they already have Rending makes it an even worse upgrade to take.

MarkCron wrote:
3) Does the GH carrying a standard still get weapons and attacks? I assume so as it doesn't reference the standard replacing anything.

Yup, it's not a weapon so they still get everything as normal.

MarkCron wrote:
4) Frost Blade vs Frost Axe - As I'm planning on using WG terminators to deal with terminators, Frost blades on the TWC and for the WG pack leaders seems better - cos you get to strike at normal init. As Frost axes make you strike at I1 anyway, if you have points, might as well get a TH or PF. On the table are people taking frost axes? If so, why?

Frost Axes aren't that great in general since they're the same cost as a Power Fist, which does the same thing but is stronger. The only reason you'd consider a Frost Axe is if you're equipping the Wolf Guard with a bolt/plasma pistol because then it'll get +1 attack (remember, Power Fists are specialist weapons). However, more often than not if you're running a Frost Axe then you want to give the character a Combi-weapon or a Storm Shield.

MarkCron wrote:
5) If I buy a drop pod for, say, Long Fangs, but don't use it for them, can I put a lone wolf in it?

No, because only the unit which bought the Drop Pod can be deployed in it at the start of the game. Since it would go into reserves, the Lone Wolf can't just hop inside either.

MarkCron wrote:
6) Heavy Support: As I will be wolf heavy (Fenrisian plus TWC) and will have most things in drop pods, I'm not going to have a lot of points to throw around. I'm thinking I need an ADL with comms relay so I can (hopefully) get all my units in by T2. However, I'm thinking that getting the quad gun would be useful. If I do that, I'll probably dispense with LF and have a pair of Vindicators behind the ADL. Thoughts?

It's a pretty decent idea, but I'd actually probably go for the comms relay. Quad Guns are good, but if you had it then you would want Long Fangs to man it rather than taking the Vindicators. In fact, 2x Vindicators and an ADL with a Comms Relay's probably a pretty good idea. Fliers could be a problem, but with Pods you can deploy in such a way that overshoot you (unless it's a Heldrake of course). That said, I still like Long Fangs myself.

MarkCron wrote:
7) I'm thinking about putting deathwind launchers in half the pods, and using them to set up a sort of artillery line. I know the pods will die, but I need a reason for the opponent to shoot at the Pods rather than the incoming wolf packs and TWC. Comments on this would be great.

Hmm I've never done this myself, but it actually sounds like an interesting idea.

MarkCron wrote:
8) Speaking of distractions, my main concern with the list I'm proposing is that I'll have a lot of combat power tied up in units with pathetic leadership. So, I had an idea - put Bjorn in a stolen Pod - Drop him T1 right next to the enemy and hope they kill him. Then the whole SW army becomes fearless. Can I do that - put Bjorn in a stolen pod I mean? I reckon that having the entire army become fearless would be worth 270 points (given the composition of the list) + if they are shooting at Bjorn they aren't shooting at my wolves - what do you think?

Bjorn can't take a Pod and can't steal one either. However, you could still have a TWC Lord with the Saga of Majesty. Taking the Saga of the Wolfkin also gives Fenrisian Wolves higher Ld.

Thanks Andilus, that's really helpful.

Couple of quick follow up questions if you have time.

a) Re the LD, Saga of the wolfkin gives the wolves L7 plus I5. I'm thinking that Canis is an autotake in the list I'm planning. However, that still isn't great. I went through the codex again and can't see any way to increase it further, although rerolls from having TwC or Saga of Majesty will help.

What do you think about pulling in Ulrik for the Wolf Helm? I can't see any other way to get it.

b) Flyers - one of my regular opponents is a CSM player with, naturally, a pair of heldrakes.

As far as I can see, the anti air options in the codex are:

ADL with quad gun; Lascannon LF; Lascannon Preds. Have I missed any? Of these, given that I'm going to need a comms relay, would you say Lascannon Preds or LF?

I think that in the end I'm just going to have to accept that flyers are going to hurt and deal with it on the table as best I can. I don't really want to ally in IG or something as I want the points for Wolves.

If you have any suggestions or sneaky tactics, that would be great.

Thx

Mark

MarkCron wrote:
Thanks Andilus, that's really helpful.

b) Flyers - one of my regular opponents is a CSM player with, naturally, a pair of heldrakes.

As far as I can see, the anti air options in the codex are:

ADL with quad gun; Lascannon LF; Lascannon Preds. Have I missed any? Of these, given that I'm going to need a comms relay, would you say Lascannon Preds or LF?

Njal. I'm a new player, but my understanding is that Njal's "Lord of the Tempests" is the best Anti-Air the wolves are going to get.

MarkCron wrote:
a) Re the LD, Saga of the wolfkin gives the wolves L7 plus I5. I'm thinking that Canis is an autotake in the list I'm planning. However, that still isn't great. I went through the codex again and can't see any way to increase it further, although rerolls from having TwC or Saga of Majesty will help.

What do you think about pulling in Ulrik for the Wolf Helm? I can't see any other way to get it.

Hmm well the I5's good at least for letting you strike before most enemies, but it'll probably be best to rely on the rerolls from TWC or Saga of Majesty rather then spend another 180pts on Ulrik. That said, Ulrik's not a particularly great character, but if your friend runs Plague Marines often then he's borderline broken - he lets you reroll all failed hits and wounds vs models with T5 or higher. That's just mean. If you are worried about it though, a Wolf Priest on a Bike might be a good idea.

MarkCron wrote:
b) Flyers - one of my regular opponents is a CSM player with, naturally, a pair of heldrakes.

As far as I can see, the anti air options in the codex are:

ADL with quad gun; Lascannon LF; Lascannon Preds. Have I missed any? Of these, given that I'm going to need a comms relay, would you say Lascannon Preds or LF?

I think that in the end I'm just going to have to accept that flyers are going to hurt and deal with it on the table as best I can. I don't really want to ally in IG or something as I want the points for Wolves.

Ugh, that's mean. Hmm well you could take Guard or Space Marine allies to get cheap fliers, but if you don't want that then your best options in the Codex are really Long Fangs with Rune Priests casting Prescience behind an ADL with a Quad Gun. The suggestion of Njal's actually a half-decent idea too, but it's very unreliable since the effect of the storm's completely random and has a limited range. If you're really worried about Heldrakes though, Rhinos, 2+ saves or a Fortress of Redemption are a good way to troll them.

Thanks for replies guys!

One more question about what is practical on the table - wolf guard pack leaders - terminator armour or not?

Plusses I can see are tanking against aforementioned heldrakes, and because he's part of the squad its possible to end up with a scoring terminator.

Downside is cost, plus loss of sweeping advance (and sweeping advance seems to be one of the benefits of GH).

Thoughts?

If you're going on foot or in a Pod, take cheap Termie Wolf Guard to soak up wounds. Maybe just a combi-weapon on them. If you're going in Rhinos, Wolf Guard aren't essential, but I prefer them for the additional Ld and ability to challenge.

Thanks for the help Andilus.

I use a 1500 point army all in drop pods. Deploy the grey hunters first and use the rapid fire weapons to take out hq or meltas/plasma to take out other targets. Then follow up with the blood claws.
Sometimes it works sometimes it dosnt. But that's the game.

Thx @pauly. Do you find WG pack leaders useful, or do you just take the extra special weapon?

I don't use them.
You can only put ten men in a pod so I go for ten man sqds and take the free plasma gun.
I used to use termies but more often than not found they die quicker than a ten man unit and arnt as flexable. But that may have something to do with my now legendary dice rolling.

The 10 drop pod capacity is proving to be a pita. Most of the options I come up with would be FAR more deadly if you could have 12.