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The only armies that are in a bad spot are getting updated relatively quickly.
I imagine, due to the high cost of entry to this hobby, you are trying to reduce the amount of dead weight you buy.
The best way to do this is to see what army appeals to you from a fluff/modeling/play style perspective, and figure out what units work within that specific army.
If you like zooming around the battlefield and bright colors, Eldar are amazing, of either flavor
If you love insects or the aliens movies, nids are in a interesting spot and getting updated soon. And by none other than Our spiritual liege, Matt Ward.
For massive hordes with guns, both IG and orks are good, though orks are a bit weak right now. This will be fixed relatively soon, and it's not really a big deal unless you play tourneys.
Robot lover? Necrons are amazing, with almost no dead weight and several wtf combos/abilities.
Like being the good guy, or have a strange attraction to gundams? Tau.
Space marines are harder to pick, but generally you can paint them black and proxy some dexes until you find one that you like. Vanilla looks really good, so custom chapters could be a thing now.
But to answer your original question, here are the tiers
As per the Nova results. Top 10 finishers were almost all Tau and Eldar. By who got the most wins first off, but remember that fewer people took the armies towards the bottom as well.
Tau
Demons
Eldar
Necrons
Chaos Marines
Grey Knights
Imperial Guard
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Tyranids
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Orks
SOB
By win%;
Tau: 66.6%
Eldar: 65.55%
Demons: 58.75%
SOB: 54.5%
Necrons: 50%
Space Marines: 50%
Grey Knights: 48.4%
Tyranids: 47.8%
Space Wolves: 46.4%
Imperial Guard: 45.3%
Blood Angels: 43.1%
Chaos Marines: 40%
Orks: 38.2%
Dark Eldar: 36%
Dark Angels: 33.6%
I think the first list is largely accurate. Blood Angels might switch with nids and Eldar and demons...but it's almost perfectly accurate. Overall though, bow to your new Tau, Eldar and Demon overlords....also, LOL power armor in 6th.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/05 04:04:34
Looking for Durham Region gamers in Ontario Canada, send me a PM!
See my gallery for Chapterhouse's Tervigon, fully painted.
Orks are rubbish right now for competitive play. Only a few 'viable' builds you must stick to religiously or be crushed. If you *do* use these builds your chances of getting crushed drop by a few percentage points.
Carnage43 wrote: As per the Nova results. Top 10 finishers were almost all Tau and Eldar. By who got the most wins first off, but remember that fewer people took the armies towards the bottom as well.
Tau
Demons
Eldar
Necrons
Chaos Marines
Grey Knights
Imperial Guard
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Tyranids
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Orks
SOB
By win%;
Tau: 66.6%
Eldar: 65.55%
Demons: 58.75%
SOB: 54.5%
Necrons: 50%
Space Marines: 50%
Grey Knights: 48.4%
Tyranids: 47.8%
Space Wolves: 46.4%
Imperial Guard: 45.3%
Blood Angels: 43.1%
Chaos Marines: 40%
Orks: 38.2%
Dark Eldar: 36%
Dark Angels: 33.6%
I think the first list is largely accurate. Blood Angels might switch with nids and Eldar and demons...but it's almost perfectly accurate. Overall though, bow to your new Tau, Eldar and Demon overlords....also, LOL power armor in 6th.
So Templars weren't even represented? Ouch.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
Carnage43 wrote: As per the Nova results. Top 10 finishers were almost all Tau and Eldar. By who got the most wins first off, but remember that fewer people took the armies towards the bottom as well.
Tau
Demons
Eldar
Necrons
Chaos Marines
Grey Knights
Imperial Guard
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Blood Angels
Tyranids
Dark Eldar
Space Marines
Orks
SOB
By win%;
Tau: 66.6%
Eldar: 65.55%
Demons: 58.75%
SOB: 54.5% (LOLZ !) Necrons: 50%
Space Marines: 50%
Grey Knights: 48.4%
Tyranids: 47.8%
Space Wolves: 46.4%
Imperial Guard: 45.3%
Blood Angels: 43.1%
Chaos Marines: 40%
Orks: 38.2%
Dark Eldar: 36%
Dark Angels: 33.6%
I think the first list is largely accurate. Blood Angels might switch with nids and Eldar and demons...but it's almost perfectly accurate. Overall though, bow to your new Tau, Eldar and Demon overlords....also, LOL power armor in 6th.
QFT! I experience the same power level in my local meta too. The Tau Master Race is bi-winning everything, Chaos Daemons FMC spam is like a nuke with a chance to spontaneously self-destruct, Eldar is just plain good, and Codex: Nurgle and Baledrakes plays the edition quite nicely (interesting fact: for the ~35 CSM armies, the tournament had 70 Baledrakes, 70 units of Cultists, 30 units of Plague Zombies and 2(!!!) units of Chaos Space Marines).
Though I would swap Blood Angels with Dark Eldar and Space Wolves with Tyranids.
I'll just hasten to add that those lists are power lists with experienced generals.. Eldar won 65.5% percent of the time at NOVA!?
THEN WHY DOES MY FOOT STORM GUARDIAN / HOWLING BANSHEE LIST LOSE ALL THE TIME!?
Good players can win with bad armies, bad players can't win with good armies. By all means attempt to avoid 'weak' armies, but make sure you do your research.
Local meta also comes into it; if no-one plays Tau for example, then a lot of the convential wisdom on army strength will go entirely out of the window.
Tau: 66.6%
Eldar: 65.55%
Demons: 58.75%
SOB: 54.5%
Necrons: 50%
Space Marines: 50%
Grey Knights: 48.4%
Tyranids: 47.8%
Space Wolves: 46.4%
Imperial Guard: 45.3%
Blood Angels: 43.1%
Chaos Marines: 40%
Orks: 38.2%
Dark Eldar: 36%
Dark Angels: 33.6%
I think the first list is largely accurate. Blood Angels might switch with nids and Eldar and demons...but it's almost perfectly accurate. Overall though, bow to your new Tau, Eldar and Demon overlords....also, LOL power armor in 6th.
I actually think the second list is just as important at the first. A highly skilled player with an optimized list of a poor army can finish high, while a poor player with a bad list of a good army can finish in the bottom. Overall win %, along with who's in the top, sets up a better comparison. When you mush them together, you get:
It's pretty clear that the top armies are:
- Tau
- Eldar
- Demons
- Necrons
Dakkamite wrote: Orks are rubbish right now for competitive play. Only a few 'viable' builds you must stick to religiously or be crushed. If you *do* use these builds your chances of getting crushed drop by a few percentage points.
This is the truth. Also applies to Blood Angels, too. Used to be the case for Dark Angels and Black Templars before their update/rollup.
Farseer_Kaiser wrote: THEN WHY DOES MY FOOT STORM GUARDIAN / HOWLING BANSHEE LIST LOSE ALL THE TIME!?
I genuinely have NO IDEA. Did you put them all in Wave Serpents?
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
Farseer_Kaiser wrote: I'll just hasten to add that those lists are power lists with experienced generals.. Eldar won 65.5% percent of the time at NOVA!?
THEN WHY DOES MY FOOT STORM GUARDIAN / HOWLING BANSHEE LIST LOSE ALL THE TIME!?
Good players can win with bad armies, bad players can't win with good armies. By all means attempt to avoid 'weak' armies, but make sure you do your research.
Local meta also comes into it; if no-one plays Tau for example, then a lot of the convential wisdom on army strength will go entirely out of the window.
Maybe you're not using effective ways to get them into CC.
And this, my friends, is why you'd never, ever see me at a tournament.
A bunch of WAACers running the most ridiculawful mathhammered lists possible competing to see which guy's poorly written codex can beat everyone else's the most often.
Good lord. This game is irreversibly broken at the competitive level.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
sing your life wrote: Maybe you're not using effective ways to get them into CC.
BTW no need to shout friend.
I do believe he was being sarcastic... Storm Guardians and Howling Banshees are widely considered just about the only units in the new Eldar Codex not made worthless by a different unit. In fact - there being no effective way of getting them into combat is the biggest problem for both. The book has no Assault Vehicles or open-topped transports. Howling Banshees also don't get assault grenades so strike at I1 if they have to charge through terrain (not exactly uncommon).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/05 17:42:04
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
sing your life wrote: Maybe you're not using effective ways to get them into CC.
BTW no need to shout friend.
I do believe he was being sarcastic... Storm Guardians and Howling Banshees are widely considered just about the only units in the new Eldar Codex not made worthless by a different unit.
British sense of humour... I very highly doubt Farseer_Kaiser actually has a Storm Guardian / Howling Banshee list. He was using it as a humorous example of how a bad player might start a touted "top tier" army and still do very badly with it.
"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch
Haha yes... my sarcasm really didn't carry on that one!
My point was that talking about what is and isn't strong codex in a vacuum ignores other elements that come into play, naturally a footdar list with nothing but Storm Guardians and Howling Banshees is going to be so incredibly bad, despite the fact that the Eldar codex rakes in all of those tournament wins.
The new Marine Codex is looking to be very strong. I'd think it'll go within the top tier.
They have answers to everything with only one or two glaring weaknesses.
3+ saves being easy to ignore are one of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: How the hell did SoB pull over 50% of wins?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/06 08:12:22
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
Puscifer wrote: The new Marine Codex is looking to be very strong. I'd think it'll go within the top tier.
They have answers to everything with only one or two glaring weaknesses.
3+ saves being easy to ignore are one of them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: How the hell did SoB pull over 50% of wins?
I think thats down to the SoB players being die hard fans who've learnt every inch of their rules. They aren't exactly an easy to get hold of starter army.
As they're seen as a 'bad' army most of the time, if you take them to a tourney, you've got to be fairly serious about liking them. Also, a lot of people won't have played against them either.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/06 08:53:36
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
Akiasura wrote: The only armies that are in a bad spot are getting updated relatively quickly.
I imagine, due to the high cost of entry to this hobby, you are trying to reduce the amount of dead weight you buy.
The best way to do this is to see what army appeals to you from a fluff/modeling/play style perspective, and figure out what units work within that specific army.
If you like zooming around the battlefield and bright colors, Eldar are amazing, of either flavor
If you love insects or the aliens movies, nids are in a interesting spot and getting updated soon. And by none other than Our spiritual liege, Matt Ward. For massive hordes with guns, both IG and orks are good, though orks are a bit weak right now. This will be fixed relatively soon, and it's not really a big deal unless you play tourneys.
Robot lover? Necrons are amazing, with almost no dead weight and several wtf combos/abilities.
Like being the good guy, or have a strange attraction to gundams? Tau.
Space marines are harder to pick, but generally you can paint them black and proxy some dexes until you find one that you like. Vanilla looks really good, so custom chapters could be a thing now.
But to answer your original question, here are the tiers
Top)
Necrons
Tau
Eldar
Middle
Everyone else
Bottom
Certain builds (wych cult, 1k sons)
I'm sorry but this is very much worthy of this
Followed by
That's...certainly unexpected.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Think of a daemon incursion like a fart you don't quite trust... you could either toot a little puff of air, bellow a great effluvium, or utterly sh*t your pants and cry as it floods down your leg.
If it is, it'll be balanced, with one or two duff units.
If its a Wardian Dex... HERE COMETH THE DEVOURER, DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!!
Mr Mystery wrote:Suffice to say, if any of this is actually true, then clearly Elvis is hiding behind my left testicle, and Lord Lucan behind the right.
Puscifer wrote: I thought Phil Kelly was the author of Nids 2013?
If it is, it'll be balanced, with one or two duff units.
If its a Wardian Dex... HERE COMETH THE DEVOURER, DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!!
More like:
Kelly - good internal balance/unit, abysmal external balance/unit, blank units/special rules turbo-boosted by weird conceptions, one or two "be all end all" list the rest of the book is just for giggles
Ward - excellent rules, horrible fluff, balances well with other Ward codices, OP against everyone else
I think thats down to the SoB players being die hard fans who've learnt every inch of their rules.
They aren't exactly an easy to get hold of starter army.
As they're seen as a 'bad' army most of the time, if you take them to a tourney, you've got to be fairly serious about liking them.
Also, a lot of people won't have played against them either.
Don't think I agree with your main point. I mean, why would a hardcore SoB player be any more dedicated to mastering their army than a hardcore fan of any other army? Tournaments are full of people who are looking to win, and that usually means mastering your army's rules and playstyle. Personally, I'd say it's more a combination of them being geinuely competitive as well as, like you said, the average player not being used to facing them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/06 11:01:02
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far.
I think thats down to the SoB players being die hard fans who've learnt every inch of their rules.
They aren't exactly an easy to get hold of starter army.
As they're seen as a 'bad' army most of the time, if you take them to a tourney, you've got to be fairly serious about liking them.
Also, a lot of people won't have played against them either.
Don't think I agree with your main point. I mean, why would a hardcore SoB player be any more dedicated to mastering their army than a hardcore fan of any other army? Tournaments are full of people who are looking to win, and that usually means mastering your army's rules and playstyle. Personally, I'd say it's more a combination of them being geinuely competitive as well as, like you said, the average player not being used to facing them.
Fair enough I know they kicked my face in with st10 cover ignoring exorcists in one game...That was definitely due to me not knowing their rules.
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
Puscifer wrote: I thought Phil Kelly was the author of Nids 2013?
If it is, it'll be balanced, with one or two duff units.
If its a Wardian Dex... HERE COMETH THE DEVOURER, DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!!
Kelly wrote 4th ed Eldar and the current Space Wolf Codex. Don't let that stop you though...
Space Wolves have always been considered the OP marine army, ever since their first full codex from back in 2nd edition. Don't let that stop you though...
And I would again point out that 4th ed Eldar wasn't entirely his fault, but apparently DakkaDakka requires people to record conversations with their friends in order to be believed...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/06 12:25:17
Puscifer wrote: I thought Phil Kelly was the author of Nids 2013?
If it is, it'll be balanced, with one or two duff units.
If its a Wardian Dex... HERE COMETH THE DEVOURER, DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!!
Kelly wrote 4th ed Eldar and the current Space Wolf Codex. Don't let that stop you though...
Space Wolves have always been considered the OP marine army, ever since their first full codex from back in 2nd edition. Don't let that stop you though...
Nahh, that was BA - they were the original +1 marines. +1 strength, +1 Initiative and all the vehicles were fast. For no/few extra points.
Although SW were too good in 2nd - an entire chapter with WS5 was nice
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
If the BA see a nice point reduction the their next codex (make priests or DC cheaper ) and some superficial buffs to some characters (Sanguinary Guard invuln save option?) I could see them return to form as midtier competitor.
- The new SM codex will help them fill some holes with allies though.
The SW have some options still, but they have something like 1 choice per force org slot. If they had access to the storm talon I think they would be a lot more competitive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/06 14:46:29
personally I'd say [in order from most to least competative]:
Necrons
Tau
Grey knights
Eldar
Imperial Guard
Space wolves
Dark Angels
Space marines
Daemons
Orks
Chaos space marines
Blood angels
Dark eldar
Tyranids
Sisters of battle
How many of the top armies had the Taudar? Seems like Tau and Eldar combo was the reason, and by themselves they might not be as good. Nearly beat a Tau player myself, and it was pure tau. I guess it was Eldau that did well.
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"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch 
Order of the Righteous Armour - 542 points so far. 
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