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I tried to go back again to the tactica. There has to be something wrong with the way I play them...

Anyhoo, I tried to stop insisting on using my Jotum, and here is what I get:

Panocéanie | 10 modèles
________________________________________________________

Fusilier Lt (10|0)
Auxilia (14|0)
Auxbot
Auxilia (14|0)
Auxbot
Bagh-Mari COMBI (22|0)
Hexa Sniper (38|1.5)
Aquila HMG (60|2)
Nisse Sniper (41|1.5)
Croc Man Poseur de Mines (34|0.5)
Bagh-Mari Hacker (34|0.5)
Nisse COMBI (31|0)
________________________________________________________

298/300 points | 6/6 CAP
ouvrir avec Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/fX9mgi

I have all the minis (some are outright conversions though) except a Nisse, and the two Bagh-Mari.

So, just based off of your list I have advice.
1) Kamau hacker beats Bagh-mari. They are both cheaper and have -6 BTS, making them far superior defensive hackers. Another thing to consider is that you are only using 1 HI, so a hacker may not even be needed unless you are playing against Nomads a lot.
2) Bagh-Mari in general aren't really worth it. They cost too much and aren't going to use their abilities much. Consider using something else.
3) In my opinion, a Hexa does better with a Spitfire. Aggressively move that TO camo marker around the board.
4) you have no specialists for objectives.

You have inspired me, I'm going to run this list this weekend. I've been meaning to try out the Hexa

PANOCEANIA
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

GROUP 1 (Regular: 10/Irregular: 0):

AQUILA HMG / Pistol, Shock CCW. (2 | 60)
AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_2 / Pistol, Knife. (20)
AUXBOT_2 (Forward Observer) Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse.
AUXILIA (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle + AUXBOT_2 / Pistol, Knife. (20)
AUXBOT_2 (Forward Observer) Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse.
CROC MAN Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (29)
CROC MAN Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (29)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (10)
HEXA Spitfire / Pistol, Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 31)
KAMAU Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 28)
NISSE Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (31)
NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 41)

5.5 SWC | 299 Points
ARMY CODE: eNozNFRVNbK0VDXVM1U1tFAzUjOsMUUijcyRKUM1SyBpBhFSMwaSQD6YBLJVy0wAfaYQ7A==

What kind of troubles are you running into Mathieu? What kinds of forces are you playing against?

That actually looks like it has some quite nasty elements to it (although, you will have to hide the obvious Lt. carefully! )

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
I tried to go back again to the tactica. There has to be something wrong with the way I play them...

Anyhoo, I tried to stop insisting on using my Jotum, and here is what I get:

You are dead to me.

I knew I'd disappoint Alph. The model is beautiful, but so much dead weight to me.

I play exclusively against Ariadna. With a heavy prepoderance of camo markers, AP weapons and Wulvers. And almost always the Mirage 5 team, cuz, you know, why not?

The Bagh-Mari have been great because my opponent isn't too keen on facing enemies with any CH skills. The hacker was just a points filler, I don't really need it, but it was a nice to have. I love the croc-man sniper, but I could settle for less expensive toys, too.

Just kidding!

No doubt T.A.G.s are tough to use effectively - mostly because of the giant bullseye most have painted on them.

Have you tried that most evil of all T.A.G.s, the Cutter, yet?

In that cases Bagh-mari sniper, HMG, and rao wouldn't be bad. You can drop the nisses in favor of a Swiss guard w/ missile launcher. Those guys are nasty, you should try him for a game.

I was hesitant to debase such a lovely figure by having it "count as" a Naval Cutter... but the TO Camo must be devilishly fun to unleash. It's the Engineer tax on TAGs that I'm not a super fan of, either.

Panocéanie | 10 modèles
________________________________________________________

Fusilier Lt (10|0)
Auxilia (14|0)
Auxbot
Auxilia (14|0)
Auxbot
Bagh-Mari COMBI (22|0)
Garde Suisse Missile (74|2)
Aquila HMG (60|2)
Rao (24|0)
Bagh-Mari COMBI (22|0)
Hexa Spitfire (31|1.5)
Croc Man Abordage (29|0)
________________________________________________________

300/300 points | 5.5/6 CAP
ouvrir avec Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/A63xnw

Like this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, I can't figure why Aleph Toolbox insists on being in French, either.

You can change the language via the dropdown for menu. Select config, and click the flag representing La langue que vous préférez.

Bagh Mari work well as a link. Otherwise, there are better options.

This ain't no thread Necro... cuz it's mine.

So I persevered. Albeit with limited time. Ironbovin kept badgering me to BE MOAR AGGRESSIVE!

So I tried this, which I felt was a bit cheezy:
Panoceania - Neoterran Capitaline Army | 10 models
________________________________________________________

Auxilia (14|0)
Auxbot
Auxilia (14|0)
Auxbot
Hexa Combi (24|0)
Hexa Spitfire (31|1.5)
Machinist Engineer (15|0)
Fusilier Combi (10|0)
Fusilier Lt (10|0)
Fusilier Combi (10|0)
Fusilier Hacker (22|0.5)
Swiss Guard HMG (67|2)
________________________________________________________

217/300 points | 4/6 swc
open with Aleph Toolbox : http://goo.gl/9yEciq

I say cheezy mainly because of the 3 TO Camo minis I had. We had both chosen palbots for our lists, but Paradiso mission 101 does allow them to do much, so we both agreed to remove them and add a hacker, which brought to the same points level. He played a vanilla Yu Jing list, about 4 Zhanshis, 1 Engineer, 1 Celestial (hacker) something or other, a dude with a missile launcher and a Hsien. He wanted to try having as few special rules, to see if they really made a big difference. I thought I was going up against Ariadna.

So anyhoo, he gets to a terminal first, and rolls "it's the furthest away from you" result... which is near my Engineer and completely across the board from both his specialist. So on my first turn, I decided to heed his wisdom and GOTZ MOAR AGGRESSIVE. I went through the middle of the board to set up my Spitfire in view of the good terminal, and lines of approach. I then moved up my two Auxilia teams, and the Engineer. I lost a drone to missile fire, which almost gave me cold feet. My TO-Camo marker was giving him the jitters though, so he spent his entire turn neutralizing it (which he succeeded in, bagging the second drone on the way there).

I decided I needed to take out his engineer, so I spent my entire order pool (save one) moving my Swiss Guard to within makeing-out distance and opened fire. I killed three of his dudes outright. I used my last order to shoot the Hsien in the back (very manly, I know) taking a wound away but losing the poor sucker.

He was able to get his Hacker to the right terminal, download the info, but not transmit it. I proceeded to clean his backfield of cheerleaders, and that was it. My final Hexa was able to chase his Hacker and shoot him down before he could transmit the data.

I won a game! Darn it feels good. It's hard to shake off the "every mini moves and every mini shoots" mindset. Do I wish I had played the scenario a bit more? Yes. But the missile launcher on a rooftop was really scary, and for good reason. We didn't play link teams because we don't feel we need them. Like he says, if we wanted squads, we'd play 40K.

So, in your opinion, are three TO Camo troops too much? The swiss guard is really scary. If you keep an order to camouflage again, it is hard to get rid of.

3 TO markers can be fun - I play two crocs and a cutter sometimes, it works pretty well.
Yeah, TO stuff can be scary - but the price you pay for them is fair and usually (and this excludes the stuff like crocs who also get a shotgun and mines with their CR for example, but definitely includes the hexas) they do only one thing, and that is the TO. soon as that gets countered, you have a pretty expensive paperweight on the table. Worth it, certainly - but if your opponent can't handle it - that's his fault, not yours IMO

If you don't want link teams, think about ditching the fusilliers. At least replace one with a (preferably EVO) MUL, (certainly if you're playing hackers anyway) if only to help in certain missions, and with retreat limits etc.
...and if you're playing missions - make those auxilia FO's. (if only because since the bot is a specialist as well, you get to roll two dice for the objective in one order, lol. Besides that, the bot can suicide around the corner taking out the dude covering the objective without exposing the auxilia himself in any way, which can then, in the second order, take care of the objective!)
Also, AUX can be lt's, make use of that and take many. If you're not linking them up anyway, those FUS aren't doing all that much good IMO. Certainly not compared to AUX.

I have a bunch of Fusiliers from the starter pack. I love my Auxilia, but they are expensive! ($-wise, they're a steal at 14 pts) Trust me, if I could afford another box...

...oh wait, Xmas is right around the corner.

I want to keep taking a Fusilier, even if just to play a few shell games, and I don't think I'm that wed to the NeoTerran sectorial, so I'll definitely still need them in the odd game.

It's the ability to go back into Camo for an order that is just too sweet. MSV are not that prevalent, right? I heard someone in another thread saying they were about to become so, but I don't know on what that might be based.

It's a meta thing. If you start making a habit of bringing 3+ TO models, you can bet your ass folks will start stocking up on MSV. if a lone ODD/CH2-3 model is already an exception with other players, they probably don't, atm.
It's not a given to be bringing MSV; even PanO who have quite a bit of it can often go without MSV completely, there's plenty of sectorials with no MSV (or only MSV1 which does not affect you); atm, you might well not encounter much, if any, MSV for a long stretch of games.
However, it only takes one or two well-armed MSV-equipped models to seriously feth up some TO-heavy lists - encounter an aquila with that 2xcroc+cutter list I mentioned? Feth, that's a substantial problem, straight away. As long as you have other tools in the box, though, I don't think it'll be much of an issue for you.
Keep in mind bringing the same list again and again is a substantial disadvantage in infinity (aside from being boring!); opponents will switch up to counter what gave them the most grief last time, even if not entirely consciously. Don't let it be your only trick, is what I'm saying!
Having a second box of auxilia is worth it entirely for when you *are* playing neoterra; believe me, I bring two in my vanilla (tournament) lists every time and would bring more @ higher AVA Having something you'll only be using in certain circumstances isn't bad - it's fine, at what little money infinity generally costs I know a €30 box isn't spur-of-the-moment buying exactly, but it's one of the more expensive 'specialist' things you'll be getting for a PanO collection as long as you don't mind not having every drone right up to AVA without proxying (and yes, I have a problem that way. And let's not get into TAGs... ) so please do consider it

Alternatively: get a peacemaker and a Guarda de Assaulto (both are great to mess with your opponent in ASA or vanilla lists, and both come with auxbots) and find suitable proxies (your fusiliers, for example) for the auxilia themselves - that's a great way to build up much more of a collection for just a few bucks more, IMO. the only real diff between the aux minis and the fusiliers is pretty much the helmet anyway so it shouldn't be much of an issue).

Oh, and it's not as if you need fusiliers for vanilla - I have played plenty of vanilla lists with no fusiliers in sight (or just a token one so folks forget my lt is an spc as well, so they don't try to take out my aux lt busy taking objectives as much since they forget being a specialist does not necessarily mean he's an FO. Sure, they could *ask* if he's an FO, but they never seem to ). Just sayin'

I like the way you think. Ironbovin and I are very open about our lists, except for the Lt.

I got the bulleteers box, so I already have two remotes that can proxy as most stuff... you're right they are expensive. I had two conversions of drones with heavy flamers (flying though, not on a big ball tire.) I guess I could always use those.

And yes, I want to get more minis just to shake up my list a bit more. The GdA can also proxy as a random MO dude, so that's always good. I'll ask Shae if they've got auxbots lying around sometimes.

I still have a lot to learn, thanks for taking the time.

I have two GdA figures (and I mainly play NCA who CAN'T take them). I got them for the auxbots, mainly.

They look like HI. So I use them as HI that don't have models as yet (gave them the multirifle option).

Swiss guard hacker or Lt mainly. SG hacker can be a bit of a nasty surprise for some opponents. Armour 5 means he can take a beating and if he's in cover, your opponent (if no MSV) will be at -9 to shoot at him BEFORE range mods).

Hey guys, i'm mathieu's YuJing opponent of last game;

Post 2013/12/06 01:44:26 Subject: Re:Trying to love my Pan-O
It's a meta thing. If you start making a habit of bringing 3+ TO models, you can bet your ass folks will start stocking up on MSV

Mhhh.. I beg to differ...
sure, a Pan-O player can stock up on MSVx... 1 x MSV3, 5 x MSV2... but most other armies cannot:

YuJing :
1x Hsien MSV2
2x BAO MSV2; which are basically 29 points cheerleaders...

Nomad:
2x Intruders MSV2

Ariadna
ok... let's no go there... but they have other tools, so i'm not complaining here...

However, it only takes one or two well-armed MSV-equipped models to seriously feth up some TO-heavy lists

And again here, I would differ... TO still represents a major threat even to a well armed MSV2. the first ARO must still be spent to discover, so whatever happens, in order to even try and shoot defensively at the TO dude, I will have to live through a full HMG burst normal roll in the face... This is exactly how my Hsien was dispatched last game; even if the Hsien was well in cover, hexa with rifle appeared in my face; I cannot shoot at her; faced her normal roll... end of the story.

So, all in all, I'm not saying that TO is overpowered, but it certainly is not "easy" to deal with, even with a fully anti TO list... So, non "full MSVed" lists can't really hope to fare well...

but then; every army has its own nasty surprises... Mathieu, how did you like Duroc?

I love having one now.

In muh face... not so much. But honestly it was Margo AP rifle shooting my Jotum that made my heart sink the most.

By the way, email me your needs for minis, I'm going to try Shae here for an order.

Yu Jing also have Rui Shi remotes with MSV2. And the Lu Duan with Heavy Flamethrower and MSV 1 is also pretty handy. But yeah, MSVs are only any good if they've not just been shot in the face.

That's why hand-held motion sensors, with cool beeping sound, make more sense than visors.

Just so you are aware, Mathieu, Neoterra are getting reinforcements in the near future in the form of the "Bolts". They are, as of this moment, being compared to the Corregidor "Wildcats" so they likely will have a number of specialists and be relatively cheap pointswise while also being linkable.

One thing that has been discussed at length is that they have a "deployable mine launcher" of some sort. Exact rules and how it works are not yet known, but it makes for an interesting area denial tool if it makes it to the final cut.

isn't 'near future' in that statement still going to be, like, late next summer or so? That's kinda long for someone who wants to play now

Some rumours say we will see new profiles and certain new rules after the new year, February-March would be my guess. We know CB will have to answer why Bipandra is having a medikit.

..oh, that's faster than I thought. Good thing, though - I made way too many mine markers so those bolts would be quite welcome

 Knight wrote:
Some rumours say we will see new profiles and certain new rules after the new year, February-March would be my guess.

Try May at the earliest. The Bolts(one of the only "new" profiles we are assured of seeing) have not even begun conceptualizing from what I've been hearing. Understand as well that the Bolts are not going to be getting a boxed set of their own, but rather are planned to be the primary unit for the Neoterran starter box. So 3 or 4 Bolts with two or three other models being the rest of the starter box.

Only model I can think of as a 'lock' for that is a Hexa with Combi Rifle.

We know CB will have to answer why Bipandra is having a medikit.

Really? We "know" that they have to answer why a special character has the Doctor skill and a Medikit?

It was in the news thread. Iirc bostria said something on the Spanish boards that Bipandra having a medkit and doctor would make sense later.

Oh, look what I did there. I was going to see a friend off island, and he has a nice FLGS he likes to play at. I thought I would support him, so I went in, the guy LURVS his Combined Army but doesn't get to play often, and he had a Cutter on hand...

loves me some TO.

I do hope that future Hexa with combi-rifle is not as nice as my conversion... I'd be sad. On the other hand, I could have two...

The Bolts' timeline is just perfect, as I plan to do a round of purchases now, and then wait until that kind of release later in the year. I have plenty in my painting queue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And has anyone ever though that a Cutter with a different paint job would look oddly appropriate for a Seraph?

He wouldn't be out of place.

Hexa agents are mean. I know I'm going to maximise all the AVA on them once my NCA project gets started.

Huh. I have two very small fins in my Cutter box and for the life of me I cannot fathom where they go on the model.

...Yeah, I never actually put those on mine either

Had another game this week (complete with week old wine glasses where we had left them), we're on fire.

I tried a completely different list and got sweeped. Ironbovin switched to Ariadna, his true love, specifically a Caledonian list, and we gave a valiant effort for mission 102. I had a single TO marker (a basic Hexa), two Bagh-Mari, a Nisse sniper, my trusty 2 auxilia, a machinist with palbot, a fusilier hacker and a Bulleteer (spitfire).

He had a 2nd Irregular, some guys in kilts, a HMG Mormaer, a grey with two shotguns, a SAS, a Katyusha Traktor, 2 engineers and maybe a cheerleader or two. We both had to up our points to include units with baggage, I took the most basic one with no EVO repeater (it wouldn't have mattered).

Since I had won last game, I knew my order of movement. I was moderately aggressive, tried to position my sniper well, moved up the board with my two Bagh-Mari... then it dawned, he was using almost no camo... gosh darn, plenty of chain rifles though.

I was insanely lucky on some armour saves, really. Ironbovin was beginning to suspect I had cocked dice, I think. Close combat did me in, however.

Mission-wise, I got to my first marker, but he never got a good roll on his. I was slaughtered by then.

I feel like I definitely had a heavy hitter in my Swiss Guard, and will try to incorporate more of those pricier but more dependable minis in future lists. I find that having to take a hacker, a machinist, then a baggage mule... it was getting a bit much.