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So I thought I'd try something with Tactical Marines and lots of the New toys:

Ultramarines
Librarian:(Biomancy): Shield Eternal, Auspex 125

5 Sternguard: Heavy Flamer, 3 Combi-Plasma, Rhino 195

10 Tac Marines: Plasmagun, Plasma Cannon, Combi-Grav 180
5 Tac Marines: Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Rhino 120

4 Centurions: Grav Cannons 330
4 Centurions: Grav Cannons 330
Stalker 75

ADL: Quadgun 100

Iron Hands

Librarian: (biomancy): Terminator Armour, Storm Shield 100

5 Tac Marines: Flamer, Combi-Flamer, Rhino 120

Stalker

I could change the Allies for Salamanders. Though 6+ FnP and IWND on the Stalker and Libby would give me more benefit. Wish I could make the Libbies lvl2 but I want those lovely Sternguard Models in the list. Also thinking of swapping a combi for a 2nd Auspex to help against Farsun.

Basic plan is Libbies sit at front of Centurions with a 3++ tanking shots and hopefully buffing with a biomancy spell. Went with libbies as cheapest way to get 3++. Centurions with 44 shots a unit 20 of which are Grav kill anything that is a threat to me. Stalkers and Quadgun support with AA and Skimmer duty (good bye Wave Serpents). Tac squads engage infantry. Sternguard support wherever necessary (they are the only part of the list I am not convinced about but the models are sooo beautiful).

What do you think?

Put centurions in the iron hands as they will be more survivable with fnp against everything and IWND. Their relentless / SaP means they don't realy need Umarine chapter tactics. Happy new codex.

Maybe Drop a stalker or the Aegis for a Skyshield Landing pad. Put the Centurions on it (maybe even go with IH chapter tactic)

This would give you 8 Centurions with 2+/3+ cover/4++/6+ FNP as well as IWND.

I don't know how much AA you need, so it's obviously up to you. I would want as much survivability on those Centurions as possible though, given their points cost.

You don't get IWND on the Centurions so just a 6+ FnP for going iron hands. I'll take the rerolls to hit please. With a 24" range the Centurions won't really work well from a Skyshield. I need plenty of AA to deal with Helldrakes. If I was going to change Fortification it would be swapping the ADL for a Firestorm Redoubt.

 FlingitNow wrote:
You don't get IWND on the Centurions so just a 6+ FnP for going iron hands. I'll take the rerolls to hit please. With a 24" range the Centurions won't really work well from a Skyshield. I need plenty of AA to deal with Helldrakes. If I was going to change Fortification it would be swapping the ADL for a Firestorm Redoubt.

Sorry that was meant to say IWND on the Centurion sergeants.

Where are you getting re-rolls to hit? Tactical doctrine is only re-roll to hit rolls of 1. -- or did you mean specifically for your tac squads?

Why are stalkers + quad "good bye Wave Serpents"? I think for the cost you should splurge on tigurius. The guy makes every eldar player weep thinking about what eldrad could have been.

Does the new codex give all missile launchers flakk?

j.d.hart wrote:
Why are stalkers + quad "good bye Wave Serpents"? I think for the cost you should splurge on tigurius. The guy makes every eldar player weep thinking about what eldrad could have been.

Does the new codex give all missile launchers flakk?

With the Stalker+Quad Your looking maybe removing 1-2 HP per turn. Maybe I'm missing something? Grav weapons seem like a better option now, just getting them into range is the key.

Missile Launchers have access to Flakk Missiles for the same cost as 2 melta bombs.

Sorry to say that you can't ally with Space Marines (I already checked cause that would be awesome) From the rule book "this must be from a different codex to the one used for the primary detachment"

Unless there's something in the new codex - I haven't received mine yet.

Andram wrote:
Sorry to say that you can't ally with Space Marines (I already checked cause that would be awesome) From the rule book "this must be from a different codex to the one used for the primary detachment"

Unless there's something in the new codex - I haven't received mine yet.

The new codex allows you to ally with the other chapters in the book. However, the Chapter Tactics only apply to the units taken in the respective detachment.

Rerolls of 1s is what I was talking about. Yeah forgot that the Sergeant would IWND that makes the Cents more attractive in the Allies but getting it on 3HPs > 2Ws in my opinion.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tigirius is awesome but doesn't have a 3++ so couldn't replace either Libby as they exist entirely to take AP2 shots from the Centurions.

As for killing Wave Serpents the Centurions should do about 7HPs each unit to literally ANY AV! So that's 2 dead. Then I have 12 S7 (all at full BS as Serpents are Skimmers) twin linked shots which should do another 3.6 HPs. So that should be 3 dead a turn with the plasma helping out.

Though I would like to add 2 Stormtalons. The Vets are obvious choice to swap but they are so gorgeous. Though I'd have to find 55 more points still.

Are there any other Gunline units I'm missing? What AA could I add? What good I drop to upgrade the ADL to a Firestorm Redoubt?

How are you using your Centurions? It is unclear at the moment whether vehicles will get a cover save against the grav weaponry (RaW they shouldn't but I am not sure), and they only cause 1 hullpoint per shot.

The reasoning for only 1 hullpoint per shot is from the FAQ:
Q: If a vehicle suffers the effects of a Crew Shaken, Crew
Stunned, Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result from the
Vehicle Damage table, does this automatically mean that it loses
a Hull Point? (p74)
A: No, unless it specifically suffers a Glancing or Penetrating
hit, or some other effect that specifies that a Hull Point is
lost.

So one stationary unit of centurions gets 20 shots, 15.55 hits, with lets say 2-3 sixes, which is 2-3 HPs. Then if the wave serpents get a cover save on top of that they are most definitely not dieing in one turn.

Then again it all depends on how they rule them with regards to cover, but I would say your anti tank isn't as strong as you think - unless you find somewhere which suggests they lose 2 hull points per shot.

Is it also possible to say what the rules are on the firestrom redoubt? I thought it could only be used in Apocolypse?


EDIT: Sorry - I forgot the Grav-amps, that would mean 4 stationary centurions would take 4.3 HPs, moving they take 2.58 given the FAQ above. So it depends whether units get cover saves against it to determine the true effectiveness of the Centurions

xStuuy wrote:
How are you using your Centurions? It is unclear at the moment whether vehicles will get a cover save against the grav weaponry (RaW they shouldn't but I am not sure), and they only cause 1 hullpoint per shot.

AND Immobilizes the vehicle.

 NickTheButcher wrote:

xStuuy wrote:
How are you using your Centurions? It is unclear at the moment whether vehicles will get a cover save against the grav weaponry (RaW they shouldn't but I am not sure), and they only cause 1 hullpoint per shot.

AND Immobilizes the vehicle.

Yeah I know. But looking at this FAQ:
Q: If a vehicle suffers the effects of a Crew Shaken, Crew
Stunned, Weapon Destroyed or Immobilised result from the
Vehicle Damage table, does this automatically mean that it loses
a Hull Point? (p74)
A: No, unless it specifically suffers a Glancing or Penetrating
hit, or some other effect that specifies that a Hull Point is
lost.

Then as it hasn't actually suffered a Glancing or Penetrating hit then I don't think it suffers 2 hull points.. what are your thoughts? Do you think this is the intent?

That FAQ actually supports that a 2nd and subsequent hit would cause 2 HPs because the immobilised result specifies it does just as the FAQ requires...

With Grav amps that's 7 Hull points whether I move or not I don't see why moving makes a difference. I still get 20 shots and still hit on 3+. I would play they do get cover saves because nothing over rides the cover rules (granted it essentially by passes them but that's not how I would play it until an FAQ confirmed they worked that way).

Oh okay.. looking at it that way I can see that being true. But then again, the immobilsed hit doesn't cause it to lose a hull point because it doesn't glance or pen, it only loses a hull point because it specifically says it does. I can see it being interpreted both ways,just comes down to whether that is what the writers intended when it get FaQ'd.

Well if you move, you can only shoot 3 grav shots at 12" range away. If you don't move you shoot 5 shots at 24" range.

If you're playing each 2nd hit knocks 2 hull points off then that is about 5 hull points lost - which can pretty much kill any singular vehicle within an 18" effective range - I see you're point.

Would you play your stalkers both behind the Aegis defence line? If so they get a 4+ cover save and become really difficult to kill, if not, I can see the flyer alpha strike and first turn firing on the quad-gun making your anti air ineffective. If I were playing you, and killed the quad-gun first turn, does that count as a victory point for first blood?

xStuuy wrote:
Oh okay.. looking at it that way I can see that being true. But then again, the immobilsed hit doesn't cause it to lose a hull point because it doesn't glance or pen, it only loses a hull point because it specifically says it does. I can see it being interpreted both ways,just comes down to whether that is what the writers intended when it get FaQ'd.

Well if you move, you can only shoot 3 grav shots at 12" range away. If you don't move you shoot 5 shots at 24" range.

If you're playing each 2nd hit knocks 2 hull points off then that is about 5 hull points lost - which can pretty much kill any singular vehicle within an 18" effective range - I see you're point.

Would you play your stalkers both behind the Aegis defence line? If so they get a 4+ cover save and become really difficult to kill, if not, I can see the flyer alpha strike and first turn firing on the quad-gun making your anti air ineffective. If I were playing you, and killed the quad-gun first turn, does that count as a victory point for first blood?

They have Slow and Purposeful, so full movement and get to fire the full amount of shots at maximum range.

As stated above Centurions are S&P and therefore move and fire to full effect. Against 1 target (which is all the unit can shoot at though I am thinking of getting an omniscope) 4 rolls of 6 = 7 hull points gone, 1 for the first 2 for each after that. RAW you get 2 HPs and I don't see why you would think RaI is different. If they existed in 5th Ed would you argue against the 2nd 6 giving a weapon destroyed result?

Yes Stalkers will usually be behind Aegis and no you don't get FB for killing terrain only for units.