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RG chapter tactics give scout to "models" without the bulky or very bulky rule.

So that means I can scout speeders, land raiders etc.?

Do land raiders have the chapter tactics rule?

Technically Land Raiders do not get Chapter Tactics. So no, they would not automatically get it. However, if someone knows the rules for embarked units with the Scout rule giving the ability to their transport if they are in it that would be useful! If so, there might be a way.

The Scout USR is only imparted to Dedicated Transports, and since the only things I can think of off the top of my head that can take Land Raiders as DT, are at least Bulky, that's a no go on scouting Land Raiders. Scouting Rhinos, Razorbacks, etc, though, that's a possibility.

If you had a Raven Guard Charcter leading a Terminator squad in a LR would that not give them Scout?

I read it the same way Mr Morden. If you put a RG Chapter Master in a unit of Centurions that are all in a DT LR, then he would have scout (assuming no terminator armor) and give it to the LR. I scoured the scout rule and it does not say that the one giving scout to the DT has to be the exact unit purchasing the DT, just that it has to be a DT and one model have scout.

If it works this way, Ravengaurd Grav-Cannon Centurions in a LR just got awesome. Redeploy 12, move 6, disembark from the front, that 24" range is not a liability at any point. Only problem is the cost of the unit. But something is gonna die.

Shamanlord1961 wrote:
I read it the same way Mr Morden. If you put a RG Chapter Master in a unit of Centurions that are all in a DT LR, then he would have scout (assuming no terminator armor) and give it to the LR. I scoured the scout rule and it does not say that the one giving scout to the DT has to be the exact unit purchasing the DT, just that it has to be a DT and one model have scout.

If it works this way, Ravengaurd Grav-Cannon Centurions in a LR just got awesome. Redeploy 12, move 6, disembark from the front, that 24" range is not a liability at any point. Only problem is the cost of the unit. But something is gonna die.

A cursory glance at the applicable rules say that this might actually work. But again, that's one expensive unit, points-wise.

Or just go White Scars and scout the LR as a dedicated Transport

That works alright, but may very well be FAQed out in future, so I wouldn't go relying on it long term. With that said - TH/SS Termies in your opponent's face a turn earlier with a beatstick character added on just got NASTY.

Thank you for this combination, it seems awesome!
I do hope they won't FAQ this away, I wouldn't call it 'OP' and it actually helps them to be better in CC.
The Raven Guard-USR are very 'meeh' in my opinion and this is the first time I'm actually happy with their Scout-rule

Shamanlord1961 wrote:
I read it the same way Mr Morden. If you put a RG Chapter Master in a unit of Centurions that are all in a DT LR, then he would have scout (assuming no terminator armor) and give it to the LR. I scoured the scout rule and it does not say that the one giving scout to the DT has to be the exact unit purchasing the DT, just that it has to be a DT and one model have scout.

If it works this way, Ravengaurd Grav-Cannon Centurions in a LR just got awesome. Redeploy 12, move 6, disembark from the front, that 24" range is not a liability at any point. Only problem is the cost of the unit. But something is gonna die.

Unfortunately this doesn't work. Only White Scars can scout the Land Raider. Here's why...

C:SM pg. 78 Strike from the Shadows: "Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky special rules do not benefit from either rule."

The IC loses the benefit if he joins a termie or centurion squad. He cannot give it to the transport.

 Sothas wrote:

Shamanlord1961 wrote:
I read it the same way Mr Morden. If you put a RG Chapter Master in a unit of Centurions that are all in a DT LR, then he would have scout (assuming no terminator armor) and give it to the LR. I scoured the scout rule and it does not say that the one giving scout to the DT has to be the exact unit purchasing the DT, just that it has to be a DT and one model have scout.

If it works this way, Ravengaurd Grav-Cannon Centurions in a LR just got awesome. Redeploy 12, move 6, disembark from the front, that 24" range is not a liability at any point. Only problem is the cost of the unit. But something is gonna die.

Unfortunately this doesn't work. Only White Scars can scout the Land Raider. Here's why...

C:SM pg. 78 Strike from the Shadows: "Note that units that include models with the Bulky or Very Bulky special rules do not benefit from either rule."

The IC loses the benefit if he joins a termie or centurion squad. He cannot give it to the transport.

Not trying to troll, but where does it say that an IC gains the Bulky or Very Bulky rule when they join a unit that has it?

The IC is not a unit anymore when it joins a unit. Therefore, you have to follow the Centurion's Bulky rule.

The issue is not whether the IC can benefit from it, but that the Centurions cannot benefit from it.

Right, centurions/termies have bulky/very bulky which don't benefit. And IC joins the unit and is now part of that unit. The rule says that if a unit contains models with bulky/very bulky then the unit doesn't benefit. There are models in the unit that have bulky/very bulky. The IC is a part of that unit so he no longer benefits.

Sad really... Did they gain/keep any infiltration ala Shrike or something?

Yup, Shrike can infiltrate with a group of jumpers.
And an IC with termies + dedicated transport doesn't scout :( the IC loses Scout as soon as it joins the Terminators, too bad.
Scouting Rhino's, Razorbacks and LSS seems nice though.

Am I correct when I think a LSS can infiltrate and then scout?

Yes, an LSS can Infiltrate and then Scout. The two Special Rules are not mutually exclusive.


The IC doesn't lose Scout, per se, they just don't benefit from it if part of a Bulky unit. A fine distinction to be sure, but an important one.

Would it work if we ally Black Templars and put our IC in their Dedicated Land Raider with 15 models?

Allied characters can't go into their allies vehicles IIRC?

Aah, true! I thought Battle-Brothers could do that.

At least one person on Dakka has tried to argue that Battle Brothers can ride in allies' transports, but not sure how many people actually take that argument seriously... It is a tortured argument that requires some creative interpretation, but it is out there if you wish to go search for it and then try to convince your opponents that you can do it...

It's a discussion for another thread.
And it depends on what you mean by "seriously" - do I argue that RAW? Yes.
Do I play that way? Couldn't care less.

Seems like it was a specific question that was brought up here so it seems appropriate to mention the viewpoint is out there...

It's not a creative interpretation.

Is an IC a unit after it joins another unit? No.
Is "Battle Brothers" defined as a friendly unit? Yes.
If you cease to be a unit, can you be counted as a Battle Brother? No.

Have fun with that.

Wait, people are actually arguing that when the BRB literally says that they can't?

That's never stopped anyone before.

Kangodo wrote:
Wait, people are actually arguing that when the BRB literally says that they can't?

You're incorrectly paraphrasing what the BRB says.

Battle Brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all
points of view. This means,for example, that Battle Brothers:
• Can be joined by allied Independent Characters.
• Are counted as being friendly units for the targeting of
psychic powers,abilities and so on.
• However, note that not even Battle Brothers can embark in
allied transport vehicles.

Not my bold.
See how the BRB literally defines Battle Brothers as a friendly unit?
If a Tau IC joins a Space Marine unit, is there a Tau unit there?
If that Space Marine unit wants to get in a Land Raider, what is stopping it?

edit: Here, I'll make it easier for folks to understand:

Battle Brothers are treated as 'friendly units' from all
points of view. This means,for example, that Battle Brothers:
• Can be joined by allied Independent Characters.
• Are counted as being friendly units for the targeting of
psychic powers,abilities and so on.
• However, note that not even 'friendly units' can embark in
allied transport vehicles.

I replaced words but did not change the rule whatsoever.

"• However, note that not even Battle Brothers can embark in allied transport vehicles."

Are BT's and other SM's Battle Brothers?

If so then the BT characters still can not ride in allied transports, as per the rules.

 DeathReaper wrote:
"• However, note that not even Battle Brothers can embark in allied transport vehicles."

Are BT's and other SM's Battle Brothers?

If so then the BT characters still can not ride in allied transports, as per the rules.

The Battle Brothers rules cease applying when the IC ceases to be a unit.
Therefore there's no restriction.