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1. Are Assault Marines worth taking now? If so what loadouts?
2. Are Devastators worth taking? If so, loadouts?
3. Are Assault Termies still worth taking with Thunder Hammers? Land Raider?
4. Are Devastator or Assault Centurions worth taking? Loadouts?

I mostly need to know as these all affect purchasing for me. I don't want to plop $80 on a unit that is crap, and I suck at theorycrafting too much to determine these answers(I also haven't played 40k yet, so I don't know all the synergies and combos to look for).

We can't answer that.
Why not?
-We don't know what Chapter you play.
-We don't know what list/tactic you play.
-The codex is new, you need time so people can a) make good lists b) wait for the meta to adapt and c) remake the list.

 Aerethan wrote:
1. Are Assault Marines worth taking now? If so what loadouts?Yes as throw away units with 2x flamers in a pod with CT: Salamander
2. Are Devastators worth taking? If so, loadouts? Lascannons or Heavy Bolters, everything else should stay at home, Lascannons want to be Imperial Fists
3. Are Assault Termies still worth taking with Thunder Hammers? Land Raider? Termies are pretty bad this edition so no.
4. Are Devastator or Assault Centurions worth taking? Loadouts? No

I mostly need to know as these all affect purchasing for me. I don't want to plop $80 on a unit that is crap, and I suck at theorycrafting too much to determine these answers(I also haven't played 40k yet, so I don't know all the synergies and combos to look for).

Apologies, I use CT Salamanders, and can/will run Vulkan.

Devastator Centurions can be worth taking as a durable lascannon/missile platform. Plus they're pretty accurate with those lascannons.

It depends on what you want to spend your HS slots on.

Don't bother with Assault Centurions though.

 Aerethan wrote:
Apologies, I use CT Salamanders, and can/will run Vulkan.

If using Salamanders AND Vulcan (you have to take him) Devs w/multi-meltas will be useful.

 Krellnus wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
Lascannons or Heavy Bolters, everything else should stay at home, Lascannons want to be Imperial Fists
.

What do you mean by "laz want to be imperial fists"?

 Aerethan wrote:

I mostly need to know as these all affect purchasing for me. I don't want to plop $80 on a unit that is crap, and I suck at theorycrafting too much to determine these answers(I also haven't played 40k yet, so I don't know all the synergies and combos to look for).

you know for some one never played 40 you have a lot of posts in Army list section

Mali wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

I mostly need to know as these all affect purchasing for me. I don't want to plop $80 on a unit that is crap, and I suck at theorycrafting too much to determine these answers(I also haven't played 40k yet, so I don't know all the synergies and combos to look for).

you know for some one never played 40 you have a lot of posts in Army list section

Now that you bring that up he has a lot of "This is my first time writing a 40k list" topics. It seems like the guy may be a compulsive liar. No offense to the guy, just a small guess off of my small opinion.


Edit: A little backing to my claim, his fourth list (third list titled "first timer) "http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/389648.page" starts: "first time writing a 40k list."
Also, this should not be interpreted to be ad-hominem, I got nothing against the guy or what he says, just making an observation.


Edit2: Like I said, got nothing against the guy at all, he's just trying to get his questions answered, just seems weird to me that he keeps saying "first time"

1. Only for flamer spam with Salamanders. Raven Guard came to making them at least okay, but then decided to not give scout to the models who want it most.
2. Yes, especially with getting tank hunters from imperial fists.
3. Not really, TH/SS are more expensive. Honor guards are cheaper now and make it a decent replacement for a 2+ armor assault unit.
4. Decent enough.

People shouldn't judge. Perhaps op is in my situation. Currently building an army yet doesn't have access to funds to complete it very quickly, hence it is taking a while and he is trying to gather info alOng the way. We're not all funded by our parents purse you know!

I think it was more a general observation/annoyance of the use of "first time doing X or Y" style of posting. People seem to do it a lot here. A LOT. I'm sure some or most of it is legitimate, but there is an uncanny number of posts along those lines hereabouts.

Anyhoo, more on topic. Devastators seem to be fairly OK now, along the lines of what DA was doing. I haven't heard one good thing about combat centurions, while devastator centurions have some support. Something along the lines of
* zomg 15 grav shots eat it and die! vs
*24" range never will they fire effectively! vs
*lascannons and missiles for life! and that one usually devolves into a missiles suck debate.
I will say that I've heard the dev cents compared to obliterators that can't deep strike and don't have an invulnerable save... which would probably put me off of them.

I've built several lists, yes. Each time it's been an attempt at nailing down unit details in order to determine my purchases.

I noticed something early on here at Dakka(for those who don't know me, I don't post much in 40k at all). Asking for input on SM lists here is like pulling teeth(or it was before the new book dropped). Adding "first time" to it increased replies, so I used it.

Regardless of thread titles, and the lists I've made, I still have yet to actually play a game of 40k. I understand the basics of it, but I don't know all the USR's and tactics used in the current game.

I have been building the same Red Hunters army for a few years now, but am not interested in buying units that I'll just end up shelving. More important than the money is the time. I don't have time to paint up units that I won't use.

The 40k section here on Dakka is a VERY different beast than P&M, WFB, or General forums. It seems to play by different rules, so I title threads at times to use those rules in my favor.

Compulsive liar I am not. I've been here 4 years, have thousands of posts, of which only 117 have been in the 40k sections.

I am a painter first, a WFB player second, and a 40k player third. The lists I do write I try to make well enough to not lose every game, so that I can then move on to the part of the hobby I like best: painting.

So you'll have to excuse me if I lean on the collective knowledge of those who theory craft and play infinitely more than I do. If you ever need advice on painting, I'm glad to help.

Calling people out on what is ultimately trivial crap is a bad way to harbor a feeling of welcome in this forum. 40k seems so much more "volatile" a community than other games.

 Aerethan wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Didn't mean anything by it, I hoped I made that clear, I understand how things go.

Edit: Oh, and I made those edits to my previous post before you posted what you said if that means anything.

Anyway, as I use Crimson Fists, I love devastators since I get Tank hunter. Assault marines are godly if you play ravenguard or if you use drop pods and wanna get a free one with 2 flamers. Termies in general suck in anything but close combat as was before the new codex. I have no experience with centurions yet, they seem like they would be similar to a predator, can't move as fast but doesn't have to worry about HP.

I can't not agree with you. Tactics and YMDC etc are always full of arguments. I had been staying away on purpose because of all of that, sticking to the P&M stuff myself. Mild interest in the new SM codex sucked me back in though

My apologies if anything I said came off as acerbic, the reasons you stated for posting how you (supposedly, i didn't look) did/do were pretty much the reasons I suspect anyone does it. I only made a point of it as I've been seeing such a thing around frequently and it had piqued my curiosity from a social phenomena stand-point.

I'm in pretty much the same boat as you in terms of no time to play and don't want to paint useless models (unless they're really, really pretty), though I never thought to ply the "first X or Y" thing, I just let my sad lonely little posts drift to the bottom if they went unanswered.

 Ryan_A wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
Lascannons or Heavy Bolters, everything else should stay at home, Lascannons want to be Imperial Fists
.

What do you mean by "laz want to be imperial fists"?

Imperial Fists devs get tank hunters for free.

 Krellnus wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
Lascannons or Heavy Bolters, everything else should stay at home, Lascannons want to be Imperial Fists
.

What do you mean by "laz want to be imperial fists"?

Imperial Fists devs get tank hunters for free.

I know, I just don't understand what you mean by "want to"

As in if you take devs with Lascannons they want to be IF to maximise their damage.

In my opinion assault marines are not very good. Assault terminators with stormshields and hammers are good but they need a land raider so they can get where they need to be. If you do this we are talking about 450 points. Deep striking them in my opinion is a bad idea, unless you go shooty termies. They have no range weapons so they are going to be a waste for that turn and if you are playing an experienced player they will wipe them out or move away from them depending on what he/she has in their army. I bought centurions and after reading more about them I think the devastator option is the best bet. I am still not sure if to take the las cannon/missile option or the grab cannon/missile option. I suggest you also get the aegis defense line and use it for your range. Devastator squads and centurions will love that cover .


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry meant to say grav cannon

 Ryan_A wrote:
I know, I just don't understand what you mean by "want to"

It means that Devastators with las are substantially better in armies with Imperial Fists Chapter Tactics, so if you want to use that unit you may wish to consider running an Imperial Fists army.

i dont understand how the whole chapter tactics are defined, bit confused about it as a whole right now lol.

Centurion lascannon/missile platforms are actually kinda viable since theyre pretty hard to take out and hit very reliably, but i wouldnt bother buying them because its still a preference between the point costs of them and the normal lascannon platform as to which is better. 4 lascannons for slightly cheaper with Devastators, or 3 TL lascannons that are also durable as hell for a pretty penny. Depends on your meta but i'd go with the devastators since every point counts and 48" range is pretty hard to threaten as it is.