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As of the new FAQ up, SM command squads can take grav rifles. If my calculations are correct, this means that you can take one biker command squad with 5x grav rifles for 210 points. Not too shabby for 15 grav shots- yay relentless!

The first problem I can see is keeping them alive. Maybe this is where a Captain with a AA + SS comes in- to soak up some of the incoming fire.

Thoughts?

Pretty nasty, although a prime target to kill 5 grav guns quickly.

Could be a right terror zooming around the enemy back line taking out Termies etc, and as bikes they'd be mobile enough to take good advantage of any available cover, but yes they'd be prime targets, especially if they run out of cover or get too close to something angry.

But as a 'distraction unit which can't be ignored', it could be very useful.

It's a strong unit, but one that you might have to keep in Reserves against many opponents. That said, even from Reserves this unit creates a lot of threat.

I'm trying to fit them into my list, but I'm leery of making 5 bikes non-scoring.

Why are you so leery of it?
It are only 200 points, that leaves enough points for troops.

Kangodo wrote:
Why are you so leery of it?
It are only 200 points, that leaves enough points for troops.

200 is a lot of points, especially considering you can take a normal Bike Squad with grav/grav/combi-grav for 145.

Might be different for everyone.
I have a tactic with 50 scoring bodies, so those bikers can easily be non-scoring.
And I play at 1500, so that's something different too.

Yeah, I'd have only 17 scoring dudes left if I move those bikes.

It's more of a matter of existing minis. If I were building the army from scratch, I could probably fit them in. As it is - I have models, I have custom Battlefoam, can't really make huge changes.

I manage to fit in this squad and still have 3 scoring Bike Squads and 2 Scouts squads, and still plenty of points for everything else I want.

I've actually upped the points on my squad a bit too to make them a bit more versatile. I run an Apothecary, 2 guys with Grav and Flamer, and 2 guys with Grav and Flamer but also with Storm Shields. This gives a bit more anti-horde which I'm otherwise relying on Whirlwinds for in my list, and the Shields with FNP along with Khan who will be joined to them help me set up defensively for a Drake attack. I will need to try it out first before buying the bits as the additions may prove more expensive than they are worth, but I think it could be good, and is the cheapest means (20pts) of adding more anti-horde to my list.

I should probably add that I'm spending 300 pts on a Storm Eagle. It's certainly the worst value for points of the main 3 SM flyers, but the only one I'm not embarrassed to put on the table simply from an aesthetics viewpoint. I suppose a Stormguppy and a Command Squad would do better.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I should probably add that I'm spending 300 pts on a Storm Eagle. It's certainly the worst value for points of the main 3 SM flyers, but the only one I'm not embarrassed to put on the table simply from an aesthetics viewpoint. I suppose a Stormguppy and a Command Squad would do better.

Are you counting the Land Speeder Tempest and Storm Eagle?

That's enough rope to hang yourself with.

You need bullet catchers to absorb some hits before you start losing 42 point models.

Getting the unit physically built could be a bigger issue than anything in your list. Just went on some bits sites to look for Grav Guns, and they are going on average for 4-5GBP a pop. That is ridiculous.

I paid £1.25 each yesterday from Valhalla Gaming on eBay. I guess they don't pay enough attention to internet chatter to know which bitz will be the hot stuff.

I take it you bought them all?

 labmouse42 wrote:
That's enough rope to hang yourself with.

You need bullet catchers to absorb some hits before you start losing 42 point models.

DA Black knights/ ravenwing command squads are that price, and they have no choice about it. Yet they are still a competitive pick, banner or no banner. They are also backed up by bikes which are 6 points more expensive, which leaves less points for the rest of the list.

I guess the point I'm making is that whilst expensive, a SM bike army does have quite a few points to play with which lets you make fun command squads with lots of toys. And even if you lose models from the command squad, its not the end of the world as you still have plenty of other scoring bikes left on the table.

They are certainly still a little pricey to lose, so I think Khan or a cheap artificier armour captain in the squad is the best way to look after them.

There is certainly more than one way to do it

I ran bike armies for quite a bit of 5th edition. If you lurk though my posts you will see old battle reports and tactics from 2010-2011.

One of the problems I ran across with the bike army was a 'footprint problem', which still exists. The problem is that when you try and field to many bikes you can't get them all in range of the target. You end up not being able to bring your full firepower to bear.

The best solution is to get firepower that can come to bear from a different angle. This is long range shooting, flyers, etc... This helps to address the issue.

Now, what you --could-- do is change your bikes to be a spearhead with a command squad. The command squad gets lots of attacks they can throw down on the charge. This lets you really hit your opponent well with a strong unit. There is good reason to do this.

This should be a change from an existing squad -- an alteration. This should NOT be a new squad you just throw down. Believe it or not, 36 bikes is pushing it on 'to many' on the board.

With perhaps one exception -- and one I must try. Its possible you could field 50+ bikes if you had a lot of outflanking abilities.

I was gonna roll with 10 bikes or so from an allied White Scar detachment.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
I take it you bought them all?

Just 6, I'm not that greedy.

But they were all gone within 6 minutes of the listing going up.

If you bring khan in for scout, you can outflank this squad to hit a flank or come down from the side to destroy stuff. Adding a pfg div libby can give the squad 4++ invuln saves and give prescience, plus allows access to the darkshroud to make other bikers have better jink saves!




(i sound like an infomercial now.

"Tired of your expensive centurions having no invuln save? Want to have a higher jink on your White Scars or Presience without taking tiguris?"
"Well, look no further than Codex DA! Just apply Biker Allies to any situation your in, and you too can buff the crap out of your main detachment!")



So what would be better, Black knights or grav command? or is this a whole separate topic that needs to be discussed?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:

So what would be better, Black knights or grav command? or is this a whole separate topic that needs to be discussed?

I want some rad grenades just-in-case something forces me to use the TL boltguns.

 labmouse42 wrote:
There is certainly more than one way to do it

I ran bike armies for quite a bit of 5th edition. If you lurk though my posts you will see old battle reports and tactics from 2010-2011.

One of the problems I ran across with the bike army was a 'footprint problem', which still exists. The problem is that when you try and field to many bikes you can't get them all in range of the target. You end up not being able to bring your full firepower to bear.

The best solution is to get firepower that can come to bear from a different angle. This is long range shooting, flyers, etc... This helps to address the issue.

Now, what you --could-- do is change your bikes to be a spearhead with a command squad. The command squad gets lots of attacks they can throw down on the charge. This lets you really hit your opponent well with a strong unit. There is good reason to do this.

This should be a change from an existing squad -- an alteration. This should NOT be a new squad you just throw down. Believe it or not, 36 bikes is pushing it on 'to many' on the board.

With perhaps one exception -- and one I must try. Its possible you could field 50+ bikes if you had a lot of outflanking abilities.

I run a bike army with 2 Captains (Chapter Masters under the new rules) and 3 Maxed out bike squads. Labmouse's comment on getting weapons into range is on the mark. I can't see what I'd do with another squad of bikes. My current Lists supports the 3 bike squads with 2x Vindicators and 2x Storm Talons and a Thunderfire cannon.

The 2 Squads with 2+ armor save HQs put pressure on the enemy and the commanderless squad usually escorts the two Vindis. Move out of way for vindis to shoot., Turbo back in front to provide cover. If firing into cover, The odd bikes just stay in front of vindis and add their own shots. The odd bike squad can act as a reserve if either of the two Chapter Master's Squads gets shot down from underneath them (think of it like an napoleon era general having a horse shot out from underneath him). I can send the reserve squad to the front to reinforce whoever is taking the most heat and retreat the wounded bike squad back to hold my home field objectives.

I'm almost thinking that with a unit like this it might make sense to have a buff chapter master with the shield and a thundrhammer to boss and give the unit good counterpunch so they are scary to a lot of things in cc when they get close.

They have 15 attacks on the charge, that is scary enough