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I was wondering if black templars can take devastator squads in the new codex as my codex has not arrived yet and trying to figure out if I should invest in a couple of devastator squads

thank you
Charles

Yes, Black Templars can take devastator squads.

Thank you curran12...my codex is bouncing around with fedex cause it got miss routed

To answer any further questions; If the Marines can have it, Templars can. Unless it's one of those dirty, dirty psykers.

 The Crusader wrote:
To answer any further questions; If the Marines can have it, Templars can. Unless it's one of those dirty, dirty psykers.

Whom they actually love now but they all asploded from the Cacodominus or something.

So basically black templars are no longer black templars, they're just another generic space marine army with no real fluff of their own anymore?

Kevv6 wrote:
So basically black templars are no longer black templars, they're just another generic space marine army with no real fluff of their own anymore?

They do still have their own fluff, but unfortunately it did get somewhat... bastardized in some ways.

 tvih wrote:

Kevv6 wrote:
So basically black templars are no longer black templars, they're just another generic space marine army with no real fluff of their own anymore?

They do still have their own fluff, but unfortunately it did get somewhat... bastardized in some ways.

Mostly true. The fluff has been turned to crap with Black Templars loving psykers and worshiping the emperor as a god. The writers either don't read previous fluff or decided to take a massive dump on the Templars in general.

I have been through all the BT fluff since the Armageddon codex.
This is no more painful than past strange add-ons.

Making them get chained to their weapons seemed to detract from the masters of war viewpoint: do they really suffer from the dropsies of their weapons?
I figure the chains made it very convenient for the DE.

They pointed out the obvious about the navigators and astropaths: they have to use them to be effective.
The Emperor as a god, they were most of the way there, the "bro-fist" with the SOB was a nice touch.
If we could ever sort out that allied mess on the chart we would be smooth sailing.

Too bad they glossed over that they "took a hit for the team" and promised to crusade forever (or was that 10,000 years?) to show their loyalty after Dorn had dishonored himself by refusing to split his Fists chapter because he believed it left the Emperor under-protected.

Not really pointed out just how huge a number of keeps there are when they lay one down at each place they conquer.
They are the best franchise marines of the bunch.
Only a hit that the combined might if all BT were in one place they would be similar in size of the legions of old (which the codex astartes was trying to prevent)

The ability to have characters lay a beatdown when challenged, resist "witchcraft" and run around on foot like the crazed guys they are is nice.
The Crusader blobs are a nice touch and not as gimped as they used to be (the easy availability of Landraider Crusaders is nice).

I mentioned it before and will say it again: Is it just me or are we being beaten over the head with "Crusader"
I was ready to make this a drinking game when reading the codex but wanted to get through the book so decided against.

Overall: happy. I can play with pretty much anything and they do not have to be the "angry marines" they used to be.

Rustican wrote:Mostly true. The fluff has been turned to crap with Black Templars loving psykers and worshiping the emperor as a god. The writers either don't read previous fluff or decided to take a massive dump on the Templars in general.

As much as some fans liked to interpret them that way, nothing in GW's older Black Templar fluff ever hinted at them having any issue with the Ecclesiarchy (quite the contrary, if one were to actually look at their battle banners in their last Codex) or even not believing in the Emperor as a god. It was simply not talked about - in between a ton of hints like them having so much faith and their habit of praying to the Emperor.

Agreed about the psyker bit, though. They still seem to reserve a special hatred for witches, but I do miss the distrust/dislike towards even sanctioned ones.

Kevv6 wrote:
So basically black templars are no longer black templars, they're just another generic space marine army with no real fluff of their own anymore?

Well, sorta. Now they're like a Space Marine Chapter that would have survived into the 41st Millenium instead of the Dorito Marines like they used to be.

"Crunch all you want. We'll make more." - Black Templars Motto.

Though I don't like that they retconned the BT fluff so that they worship the Emperor as an actual god, instead of simply worshiping him for being ridiculously awesome. But, like everything else in the game, it seems like the Black Templars were destined to have their fluff dumbed down by the new generation of 40K writers.

Do the black templars use the mixed crusade squads? I'm in 2 minds to sell my black templars now that they've had their fluff shafted.... I would have just repainted them as a different chapter, but I used the upgrade boxes on them all :-(

Yes we still have mixed crusader squads...but now they get a sergeant and lose nothing else. The crusade squads actually GAINED options while getting the basics like krak grenades for free. Oh and the initiates are cheaper by default. A fluffy black templar army revolves around crusader squads...which just became one of the most flexible SM units and I would argue the best default troop slot. And only the templars get them.

I don't get all the BT whine. When its all said and done I see this as a net gain, not a loss. The fluff is only minor alterations, and with all the different crusade fleets, one is left to tweak it however they see fit.

How did BT fans become the biggest babies of the 40k fans? Its just not right.

They took Righteous Zeal.. I can deal without hatred, but a 20 man foot squad is slightly irrelevant if they're just going to stand there when they get shot.

I've already switched to Imperial Fists, not all is lost to the sons of Dorn.

 Iyandenseer wrote:
They took Righteous Zeal.. I can deal without hatred, but a 20 man foot squad is slightly irrelevant if they're just going to stand there when they get shot.

I've already switched to Imperial Fists, not all is lost to the sons of Dorn.

And here I've heard the opposite, many complaining about their units running off objectives for last minute losses because they easily made them run away. It's like an old rage that the enemy could trigger when he wants for the only unit you have that can score.

You could easily go to ground to stay on objectives. Losing righteous zeal hurt because that's a free run phase we do not get anymore. And in an army that really wants to get in cc asap it slows us down anywhere from 33-50%. That's a very big speed loss for crossing the death trap in the middle of the table. 3+ armor isn't enough these days.

It is funny that the squads are meant to be big but you get all the goodies even if you plan on being a 5 man squad unlike our "normal" marine brothers.

I think with our "crusader" special rule we get a little more reliable running distance. I was not a fan of getting yanked out of a position because I got shot. Running off an objective or perfectly good cover always bugged me.

I think the blend of the rules given are "right" rather than looking at each gain/loss on their own. I see the larger squads as a means of getting a lot of shots out while running around. Hmmm, forgot to check if we do combat squads, could give some interesting options.

 Isean wrote:
You could easily go to ground to stay on objectives. Losing righteous zeal hurt because that's a free run phase we do not get anymore. And in an army that really wants to get in cc asap it slows us down anywhere from 33-50%. That's a very big speed loss for crossing the death trap in the middle of the table. 3+ armor isn't enough these days.

Except you can't go to ground to avoid the Righteous Zeal check, as you aren't pinned or falling back, it ignores the movement restriction as it is forced to move and they return to normal immediately.

...Going to ground in the enemy shooting phase put your guys in the pinned state, so they couldn't move for righteous zeal. Regardless, it is moot now, since we no longer have it.

 Isean wrote:
...Going to ground in the enemy shooting phase put your guys in the pinned state, so they couldn't move for righteous zeal. Regardless, it is moot now, since we no longer have it.

Actually it doesn't, the only time you are in a Pinned state is if you are forced beforehand to take a Pinning test from a weapon that has the Pinning special rule. P.40

Going to ground does NOT put you automatically within the pinned state, as p.18 states nothing of the pinned state.

But yes I suppose it is moot now.

I dont know what page 18 you are reading.

"A unit that has gone to ground cannot move, Run or charge. It can only fire Snap Shots when it wishes to shoot, and can fire Overwatch. At the end of its following turn, the unit returns to normal, the marker is removed and the unit is free to act as normal from then on."

That is the same as pinned. Why is it the same? Because read the Pinning rule: "If the unit fails the test, it is pinned and rnust immediately Go to Ground (see page 18)"

 Isean wrote:
I dont know what page 18 you are reading.

"A unit that has gone to ground cannot move, Run or charge. It can only fire Snap Shots when it wishes to shoot, and can fire Overwatch. At the end of its following turn, the unit returns to normal, the marker is removed and the unit is free to act as normal from then on."

That is the same as pinned. Why is it the same? Because read the Pinning rule: "If the unit fails the test, it is pinned and rnust immediately Go to Ground (see page 18)"

I am reading the rule, under go to ground there is no mention of being pinned at all, which means that the only time you can be pinned is when you are afflicted by pinning under the rule.

So thus, the only way to be pinned, is to to have something with the special rule on page 40. There is no "Pinned" affliction for going to ground, because it even mentions you are "pinned and MUST go to ground" meaning they are separate.

Ergo, without the Pinning rule under go to ground, you are not pinned when you voluntarily go to ground.

Also you forgot

"If the unit is forced to move, for example they have to fall back, it returns to normal immediately." Which righteous zeal is.

Lobukia wrote:I don't get all the BT whine. When its all said and done I see this as a net gain, not a loss. The fluff is only minor alterations, and with all the different crusade fleets, one is left to tweak it however they see fit.

How did BT fans become the biggest babies of the 40k fans? Its just not right.

Nobody can challenge the chaos fans at whining.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
...

Though I don't like that they retconned the BT fluff so that they worship the Emperor as an actual god, instead of simply worshiping him for being ridiculously awesome. But, like everything else in the game, it seems like the Black Templars were destined to have their fluff dumbed down by the new generation of 40K writers.

The first steps of fluff into 6th edition weren't bad. But yes they stumbled sooner than expected and never recovered from the headbutt against the next wall.

Talizvar wrote:

...
Too bad they glossed over that they "took a hit for the team" and promised to crusade forever (or was that 10,000 years?) to show their loyalty after Dorn had dishonored himself by refusing to split his Fists chapter because he believed it left the Emperor under-protected.

...

Eternal Crusade is incompatible to "end times".
So it was lost somewhere...

Something like the psyker changes and god-worship are far from minor if you actually know anything about the origins of the Chapter. They go against the core of the Templars' being, so to speak. Fun fact: you can pray to a powerful non-god entity. It's not like it's completely unheard of with other chapters. That's what the whole "Emperor protects" thing is about.

As for Righteous Zeal, people are reading irrelevant rules. The thing about not Zealing when going to ground was in the rule itself, as per FAQ: "... In the Shooting phase, any Infantry unit (not Jump Infantry) that has not gone to ground and is not falling back ...". So while you may end up falling back if you take 25% or more casualties after going to ground, you won't take Righteous Zeal checks.

tvih wrote:Something like the psyker changes and god-worship are far from minor if you actually know anything about the origins of the Chapter. They go against the core of the Templars' being, so to speak.

I assume, then, that you have an earlier core GW product clearly stating that the Black Templars do not see the Emperor as a god, then? Citation please, with source title and page number.