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Simple question... I was told a bit ago Bikes can go inside of a transport. If so... Suppose i stick a squad of 4 bikes inside of land raider crusader (i know massive points,just go with it) The banner would then be measured from the hull of the tank wouldn't it? If my idea is 100% wrong then ignore the thread. Thanks in advance for any help given!

Bikes in transports? BRB page 78 - Transport capacity.

that's what i thought. was hoping i was wrong. thanks Happy.

The only bikes that can go in a (non-super heavy) transport are Necron Tomb Blades.

Would it not be cheaper and more effective to just take a PA command squad with the Dakka banner if you wished to hide them in the tank?

Im not worried about points. it was simply a idea. But on that subject, If the banner was inside of a Landraider, Would the banner work off the Hull of the landraider at that point?

Yes, a lot of people do this with 3 land raider crusaders. You can then have a techmarine on a bike following behind the land raider with the force field generator granting all those land raiders 4++ saves. Add deathwing to them and watch the opponents rage

I had this discussion to day, and I was wondering - are there any transports which ARE capable of transporting bikes, jump infantry, or anything which isn't generic infantry? (Other than Stormravens and their dreadnought clamp?)

 Jimsolo wrote:
I had this discussion to day, and I was wondering - are there any transports which ARE capable of transporting bikes, jump infantry, or anything which isn't generic infantry? (Other than Stormravens and their dreadnought clamp?)

Codex:
Necron Nightscythe.

Forgeworld:
Skytalon
Storm Eagle
Caetus Assault Ram?

All Superheavies.

the Stormeagle is 100% 40k approved..and 235 points.. It's not a bad flier either. Also ty for the question answer folks!

Nightscythe is the clearest example I have found, and those created the rules that sixth edition would later term 'bulky' to explain how you wouldn't fit as many inside. There are another that I am very familiar with even if I do not use it, the Tau Devilfish, which technically allows jump-pack units to board. That does have a sign above the door though, stating non-bulky infantry and Drones only. I am sure I have seen two, or maybe just one, other in flicking through codex's I do not regularly read but I don't remember what they are named but do not have enough interest or access to my library to research which transports those may be.

Does show it is possible but so very rare to see, and even if you do there is likely other restrictions involved.

To answer the banner question. It's covered between the rulebook and its FAQ, but to sum up quickly - it all depends on whether it's a simple area effect or whether you need to draw line of sight/select a target.
The former is simply measured from the hull. The latter can't be done, as you would have to use a fire point, and the FAQ squashed the notion of using this for anything that isn't actually a shooting attack.

JinxDragon wrote:
Nightscythe is the clearest example I have found, and those created the rules that sixth edition would later term 'bulky' to explain how you wouldn't fit as many inside. There are another that I am very familiar with even if I do not use it, the Tau Devilfish, which technically allows jump-pack units to board. That does have a sign above the door though, stating non-bulky infantry and Drones only. I am sure I have seen two, or maybe just one, other in flicking through codex's I do not regularly read but I don't remember what they are named but do not have enough interest or access to my library to research which transports those may be.

Does show it is possible but so very rare to see, and even if you do there is likely other restrictions involved.

The Devilfish does nothing of the sort. It has nothing in it's rules to override the restriction on Infantry (proper Infantry, not Jump or the like) only.

Then explain to me how they are allowed to carry drones, a known jump unit?

I would honestly state that it is clear the Devilfish is designed to carry Jump units, because if it was bound by the basic rule books limitation of pure infantry units then Drones would not be able to do so. Just because it has a limitation in place ensuring the only jump unit that is allowed inside are Drones doesn't change the fact you are putting a jump unit into the Devilfish. On that note, it also moves further away from the standard transport limitation rule by preventing you from placing just any old pure infantry unit inside, ensuring that you are not allowed to place any unit with the bulky special rule inside of it. It very obviously follows it's own rules for what can and can not embark, and those rules do not limit the Devilfish to only pure infantry units.

Drones are allowed to embark, drones are jump units, therefor it is allowing a type of jump unit to embark.

JinxDragon wrote:
Then explain to me how drones, a jump infantry unit, are allowed inside of the Devilfish if it doesn't have a rule giving it permission to carry jump units, even if that rule limits it to drones?

If by "technically allows jump-pack units to board" you were exclusively referring to drones then my apologies as I misinterpreted you. You are still, technically, incorrect though as Drones are Jet Pack Infantry, not Jump Infantry. That is a rather minor quibble given the context of the conversation though.

Chrysis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I had this discussion to day, and I was wondering - are there any transports which ARE capable of transporting bikes, jump infantry, or anything which isn't generic infantry? (Other than Stormravens and their dreadnought clamp?)

Codex:
Necron Nightscythe.

Forgeworld:
Skytalon
Storm Eagle
Caetus Assault Ram?

All Superheavies.

Caestus cant transport bikes. Its specified it can only transport models in power armor, artificer armor and terminator armor.

Edit:
After a second thought. Arent SM Bikers models in Power Armor? Additionally the caestus rules make models "not be affected by the Bulky special Rule and remains ten regardless of the models type". Interesting idea
Edit2:
After a third thought and a look at IA:Aeronautica and the Bulky special rule now my question ... can the caestus transport 10 Bikes?

I do apologize for that mistake Chrysis. While the 'technically' was in relation to the rule which lets them carry Drones, a jet-pack unit, I did mess up with the explanation. Now I just have to sit here blinking at that obvious mistake which is more embarrassing as I play Tau as my majority army. The whole jump/jet-pack mistake is a sort of slip that can happen easily if the players involve are not used to an army that consists of only infantry, jet-packs and a few beasts mixed in. I will leave the mistake in, so everyone can ridicule me for it.

 Mywik wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I had this discussion to day, and I was wondering - are there any transports which ARE capable of transporting bikes, jump infantry, or anything which isn't generic infantry? (Other than Stormravens and their dreadnought clamp?)

Codex:
Necron Nightscythe.

Forgeworld:
Skytalon
Storm Eagle
Caetus Assault Ram?

All Superheavies.

Caestus cant transport bikes. Its specified it can only transport models in power armor, artificer armor and terminator armor.

Edit:
After a second thought. Arent SM Bikers models in Power Armor? Additionally the caestus rules make models "not be affected by the Bulky special Rule and remains ten regardless of the models type". Interesting idea
Edit2:
After a third thought and a look at IA:Aeronautica and the Bulky special rule now my question ... can the caestus transport 10 Bikes?

No. Pg 78 of the BRB limits transports to Infantry unless specifically stated otherwise. Guys with Bikes are all Bike units not infantry units. It should aslo be noted that Bike units are not bulky at all but you would need rules specifically allowing the unit to be transported (like a dreadnought in a drop pod)

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

Chrysis wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
I had this discussion to day, and I was wondering - are there any transports which ARE capable of transporting bikes, jump infantry, or anything which isn't generic infantry? (Other than Stormravens and their dreadnought clamp?)

Codex:
Necron Nightscythe.

Forgeworld:
Skytalon
Storm Eagle
Caetus Assault Ram?

All Superheavies.

Caestus cant transport bikes. Its specified it can only transport models in power armor, artificer armor and terminator armor.

Edit:
After a second thought. Arent SM Bikers models in Power Armor? Additionally the caestus rules make models "not be affected by the Bulky special Rule and remains ten regardless of the models type". Interesting idea
Edit2:
After a third thought and a look at IA:Aeronautica and the Bulky special rule now my question ... can the caestus transport 10 Bikes?

No. Pg 78 of the BRB limits transports to Infantry unless specifically stated otherwise. Guys with Bikes are all Bike units not infantry units. It should aslo be noted that Bike units are not bulky at all but you would need rules specifically allowing the unit to be transported (like a dreadnought in a drop pod)

The caestus rule allows all models with power/aritificer/terminator armor to be transported. Isnt a space marine biker a model in power armor?

Doesn't matter. The models it transports must be in Power Armour (or Artificer or Terminator) but that's not permission to transport any model in the aforementioned armour types. It's a restriction rather than permission.

For others trying to follow along:
"... has a transport capacity of ten models which must either be in power armour, artificer armour or Terminator armour."

 Mywik wrote:

The caestus rule allows all models with power/aritificer/terminator armor to be transported. Isnt a space marine biker a model in power armor?

What rule is that?

MISERICORDE this vehicle ignores the Bulky USR, and treats anything in power, artificer, or terminator armour as 1 transport slot.

Bikes do not have the Bulky USR so the misercorde does not effect them. Pg 78 of the BRB stats that a transport can only transport units with the infantry type. All units with bikes are well bike units and not infantry. They can't ride in transports.

The best use of a CAR might be to deeptrike/transport 5 centurions onto your enemy's back door.

What I quoted is from IA:Aeronautica. Did it get an update in IA:Apocalypse?

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

The caestus rule allows all models with power/aritificer/terminator armor to be transported. Isnt a space marine biker a model in power armor?

What rule is that?

MISERICORDE this vehicle ignores the Bulky USR, and treats anything in power, artificer, or terminator armour as 1 transport slot.

Bikes do not have the Bulky USR so the misercorde does not effect them. Pg 78 of the BRB stats that a transport can only transport units with the infantry type. All units with bikes are well bike units and not infantry. They can't ride in transports.

The best use of a CAR might be to deeptrike/transport 5 centurions onto your enemy's back door.

You seem to have an older publication. The latest is IA:Aeronautica. The wording is similar but not the same. (I agree that transporting bikes wouldnt work. Would be silly even if it wouldve been possible RAW. Was worth a try )

Are centurions models in pa/tda/aa? I dont have the codex since playing SW. But if they can get in .. why wouldnt it be capable of transporting 10?

What I quoted claimed to be from AIL aeronautica. But its from the internet so maybe not...

 DJGietzen wrote:
What I quoted claimed to be from AIL aeronautica. But its from the internet so maybe not...

I hope its okay to quote the relevant part of the rule from IA:Aeronautica since that book isnt widely available and its important for the discussion

[...] As a result the Caestus Assault Ram has a transport capacity of ten models whicht must either be in power armour, artificer armor or terminator armour. It transport capacity is not affected by the bulky special rule and remains ten regardless of the transported models type.

Centurions don't have armour at all, they just have an armour save. No Centurions allowed in the Caestus.

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

The caestus rule allows all models with power/aritificer/terminator armor to be transported. Isnt a space marine biker a model in power armor?

What rule is that?

MISERICORDE this vehicle ignores the Bulky USR, and treats anything in power, artificer, or terminator armour as 1 transport slot.

Bikes do not have the Bulky USR so the misercorde does not effect them. Pg 78 of the BRB stats that a transport can only transport units with the infantry type. All units with bikes are well bike units and not infantry. They can't ride in transports.

The best use of a CAR might be to deeptrike/transport 5 centurions onto your enemy's back door.

BRB FAQ stands that BIkes and Jetbikes are Very Bulky

 Vector Strike wrote:

 DJGietzen wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

The caestus rule allows all models with power/aritificer/terminator armor to be transported. Isnt a space marine biker a model in power armor?

What rule is that?

MISERICORDE this vehicle ignores the Bulky USR, and treats anything in power, artificer, or terminator armour as 1 transport slot.

Bikes do not have the Bulky USR so the misercorde does not effect them. Pg 78 of the BRB stats that a transport can only transport units with the infantry type. All units with bikes are well bike units and not infantry. They can't ride in transports.

The best use of a CAR might be to deeptrike/transport 5 centurions onto your enemy's back door.

BRB FAQ stands that BIkes and Jetbikes are Very Bulky

Just for the sake of the argument (since i agree bikes cant be transported in a caestus) if something ignores the "Bulky" special rule - would it technically also ignore very bulky? Very Bulky is a subcategory of the Bulky special rule ... or is it? The format in the BRB makes me think it is.

Chrysis wrote:
Centurions don't have armour at all, they just have an armour save. No Centurions allowed in the Caestus.

with the current working, I agree 100%.

@Vector Strike: thanks I did miss that.

@Mywik: I wouldn't want to play it that way, but I can see why you would. When I look at how Very Bulky is used on a models profile it appears as its own special rule and not a sub rule. If very was a modifier to bulky I would expect it to be "Bulky (Very)". But we are off in RAI territory now and both interpretations of the intent have strong arguments. If it ever comes up, just best to let it happen because i'm sure the rule of cool is going to be a factor when 10 extremely bulky infantry pile out of a CAR one day

Codex Ork BattleWagon..20 models ..so (6 Bikes)
Codex Ork Looted Wagon 12 Models so (4 Bikes)

Certain forge World Superheavies ..
Not sure how the stompa is labeled if its infantry or models




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Still I cannot imagine doing this ..it just does not make any since to me as Bikers move way to fast ..and are far more survivalble on their own than in a transport