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I'm putting no stock in June. We havent heard anything since the bols rumor. And I cant remember how long that was ago.

Can’t be far off what else is left after deathwatch, harlequins and knights.... space wolves and orks? And genestealer cults

Squats at this rate, I'm sure.

I wouldnt be surprised by a SoB codex before orks.

Why are they waiting so long to release orks? Surely there’s more ork players than most of the armies that already have a codex out???

I want to believe they are really putting some thought into Orks to really flesh them out. But it might as well be that there just isn't enough production capacity at the moment and they're bringing some new kits with the codex, which itself proves to be half-assed.

Yay for optimism!

 TedNugent wrote:
Squats at this rate, I'm sure.

I wouldnt be surprised by a SoB codex before orks.

I really really hope not.
It is amazing how almost frustrating waiting on legit rumors and dates is. haha.

Hogiebear wrote:
Why are they waiting so long to release orks? Surely there’s more ork players than most of the armies that already have a codex out???

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second, then the answer is simple: Because it's the most work to do.

First, if they keep going with the "no model, no rules" course, a lot of important models are going to drop. Some of them, like the KFF mek or biker HQs are essential for keeping the army working at all, so they would need to allocate a bunch of resources to creating models for those things.
Second, they have stated in the past that they have no clue how to make orks work. So if they want to get this codex right, they will have to invest time to start understanding them and probably plan time of an additional iteration or two to allow them to scratch a draft and start anew.

Another possibility is that they have planned a huge promotion, like the rumored Space Wolves vs Orks thing, that goes with the ork release, which takes additional time to prepare.

If you assume they are not aiming to deliver a good ork codex... never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Had game with previous dread list. Got against dark angels with lib on bike, sniper scouts, 2 tac with lascannon, 5 assault marines, 3 assasins(no female one), 2 small knights and gatling plus battle cannon knight.
Maelstrom where you try to predict how many you score.

He whittled my kmk' slowly. First turn kff helped a lot. He put knight 18" odd from my 4claw dread. After advancing with most of my stuff i hit it for some and got lucky 12 to charge. Survived s&s with 1wound, dented and blew up taking to next bracket.

Baby knight second turn whiffed and charged my warlord kff(lucky charge removed screen) and gorkanaut. Other charged fjamer dread. This ended costing him armigers for warlord.

Last dread tried to charge knight that was lumbering toward knk's and died to stand and shoots. Having lost kff's to walkers killa kans were whittled down badly but eversor was dead and culexus on last wound.

Had to call off due to time on turn 4 with him on slight lead. Big knight9 wounds left, gorkanaut 11. He was ahead in vp's like 6 pts.

One turn forgot in assault phase i had moved killa kans not to attack culexus but to score defend objective but this did save flamer dread.

Thank you for the battle report and pictures!

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

tneva82 wrote:

Spoiler:

Had game with previous dread list. Got against dark angels with lib on bike, sniper scouts, 2 tac with lascannon, 5 assault marines, 3 assasins(no female one), 2 small knights and gatling plus battle cannon knight.
Maelstrom where you try to predict how many you score.

He whittled my kmk' slowly. First turn kff helped a lot. He put knight 18" odd from my 4claw dread. After advancing with most of my stuff i hit it for some and got lucky 12 to charge. Survived s&s with 1wound, dented and blew up taking to next bracket.

Baby knight second turn whiffed and charged my warlord kff(lucky charge removed screen) and gorkanaut. Other charged fjamer dread. This ended costing him armigers for warlord.

Last dread tried to charge knight that was lumbering toward knk's and died to stand and shoots. Having lost kff's to walkers killa kans were whittled down badly but eversor was dead and culexus on last wound.

Had to call off due to time on turn 4 with him on slight lead. Big knight9 wounds left, gorkanaut 11. He was ahead in vp's like 6 pts.

One turn forgot in assault phase i had moved killa kans not to attack culexus but to score defend objective but this did save flamer dread.

Thank you for the battle reports (plural), it always nice to read about ork combat. I, for one, appreciate reading a report from an ork that can be bothered to post a loss, we are certainly doing enough of that this edition and nobody ever wants to discuss defeat.

I feel like an Artillery/Kan list needs an outflank asset to nab forward objectives. It's lipservice advice but it's the only tool I think is missing from a list like that.

 Rismonite wrote:
Thank you for the battle reports (plural), it always nice to read about ork combat. I, for one, appreciate reading a report from an ork that can be bothered to post a loss, we are certainly doing enough of that this edition and nobody ever wants to discuss defeat.

I feel like an Artillery/Kan list needs an outflank asset to nab forward objectives. It's lipservice advice but it's the only tool I think is missing from a list like that.

If I were to report only wins that would be short amount to report

As for forward objectives yeah those might be useful. I'm planning on building some 5 strong cheap kommando units for far field objective grabbing and buggies could be good but I'm waiting for new models.

I saw a rumour of gorkamorka in September, maybe they waiting for that to drop so there’s lots of new kits for buggy’s trakks etc

gungo wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

Drukhari bikes are now very good, maybe even game breaking without the max 3 limit. They used to be worse than ork warbikes.

gungo wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

Realistic changes are warbikers dropping in points and getting their exhaust cloud back. For deff dreads there could be a stratagem to improve them.
For most units "horrid at shooting" is a matter of point efficiency and survivability. The weapon profiles of units like lootaz, flash gits, the blasta jet or the morkanaut are pretty awesome, they just don't hit often enough for the points you need to invest in them.

 Jidmah wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Why are they waiting so long to release orks? Surely there’s more ork players than most of the armies that already have a codex out???

Let's just assume they are trying to get it right this time for a second, then the answer is simple: Because it's the most work to do.

First, if they keep going with the "no model, no rules" course, a lot of important models are going to drop. Some of them, like the KFF mek or biker HQs are essential for keeping the army working at all, so they would need to allocate a bunch of resources to creating models for those things.
Second, they have stated in the past that they have no clue how to make orks work. So if they want to get this codex right, they will have to invest time to start understanding them and probably plan time of an additional iteration or two to allow them to scratch a draft and start anew.

Another possibility is that they have planned a huge promotion, like the rumored Space Wolves vs Orks thing, that goes with the ork release, which takes additional time to prepare.

If you assume they are not aiming to deliver a good ork codex... never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I suspect that they (GW) just dont know how to make a working ork codex. I wouldnt be surprised if a lot of stuff will be dropped and the number of builds possible "streamlined".

 Jidmah wrote:

Realistic changes are warbikers dropping in points and getting their exhaust cloud back. For deff dreads there could be a stratagem to improve them.
For most units "horrid at shooting" is a matter of point efficiency and survivability. The weapon profiles of units like lootaz, flash gits, the blasta jet or the morkanaut are pretty awesome, they just don't hit often enough for the points you need to invest in them.

I just hope they lower the cost of nobz on warbikes quite a bit. Not that the normal warbikers are good as of right now but the increase in cost to make 1nob & 2 boyz to 3nobz is insane IMO.

 Jidmah wrote:


Realistic changes are warbikers dropping in points and getting their exhaust cloud back. For deff dreads there could be a stratagem to improve them.
For most units "horrid at shooting" is a matter of point efficiency and survivability. The weapon profiles of units like lootaz, flash gits, the blasta jet or the morkanaut are pretty awesome, they just don't hit often enough for the points you need to invest in them.

I agree, with exhaust cloud and a hefty price drop (7pts minimum) they would be worth taking, their shooting would still be gak but at least they would have the option to shoot/assault instead of collect dust on my shelf. Dreadz....I don't see a viable way to make them worth taking, you could double their attacks and they still would be iffy.

As for our shooting units, I again agree. My only point would be that you missed the durability issue with a lot of those units. Lootas/Burnas/Flash Gitz completely lack durability which is terrible when you team that with their abysmal shooting ability. I am fine with them being glass cannons...but they need to step up the cannon part and add some armor to that glass part before they are worth taking. As it stands, Lootas are next to my bikes collecting dust, I did take 18 recently in 2 squads but only because I had built my list to 1750 for tournament play and my opponent wanted the full 2,000. So I tweaked my list and took lootas. In 2 shooting rounds they fired a total of 81 shots, they did a grand total of 4dmg to an enemy tank. Completely useless. My KMKs on the other hand almost killed themselves with bad rolls but still managed to do 6-7 times that dmg to my opponents same tanks.

Dread: Extra point or two speed, couple more wounds(ork walkers are often referred as sturdy. Their warmachines are noted for being fully on fire and STILL lumbering forward) and point drop would help.

For gorkanaut/morkanaut and stompa on above line I would personally increase wound count AND make degration table less of a hindrance making ork walkers lumbering monster that needs to be blown completely apart to really stop the threat. Some sort of special save would be nice but thing is fluffwise inv save or at least permanent ones arent' appropriate. Void shield equilavents have never been stompa level but gargant and even if you retcon that they aren't as good as void shield(basically one use). Maybe 5+++ or 6+++ instead to represent the orky sturdyness.

tneva82 wrote:
Dread: Extra point or two speed, couple more wounds(ork walkers are often referred as sturdy. Their warmachines are noted for being fully on fire and STILL lumbering forward) and point drop would help.

For gorkanaut/morkanaut and stompa on above line I would personally increase wound count AND make degration table less of a hindrance making ork walkers lumbering monster that needs to be blown completely apart to really stop the threat. Some sort of special save would be nice but thing is fluffwise inv save or at least permanent ones arent' appropriate. Void shield equilavents have never been stompa level but gargant and even if you retcon that they aren't as good as void shield(basically one use). Maybe 5+++ or 6+++ instead to represent the orky sturdyness.

I like the forgeworld Meka-Dread's "Ramshackle Monster" rule:
"Each time a Meka-Dread loses a wound from any weapon, roll a D6 - on a roll of 4+, the wound is ignored. The 1st time this roll is failed, the result needed is reduced to a 5+, and so on until the roll fails on a 6+ and this ability may no longer be used."
...adding that to all ork walkers/vehichles could make them a bit more survivable

 ZoBo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Dread: Extra point or two speed, couple more wounds(ork walkers are often referred as sturdy. Their warmachines are noted for being fully on fire and STILL lumbering forward) and point drop would help.

For gorkanaut/morkanaut and stompa on above line I would personally increase wound count AND make degration table less of a hindrance making ork walkers lumbering monster that needs to be blown completely apart to really stop the threat. Some sort of special save would be nice but thing is fluffwise inv save or at least permanent ones arent' appropriate. Void shield equilavents have never been stompa level but gargant and even if you retcon that they aren't as good as void shield(basically one use). Maybe 5+++ or 6+++ instead to represent the orky sturdyness.

I like the forgeworld Meka-Dread's "Ramshackle Monster" rule:
"Each time a Meka-Dread loses a wound from any weapon, roll a D6 - on a roll of 4+, the wound is ignored. The 1st time this roll is failed, the result needed is reduced to a 5+, and so on until the roll fails on a 6+ and this ability may no longer be used."
...adding that to all ork walkers/vehichles could make them a bit more survivable

Problem with that is that it's more dice rolling(=slows game) for maybe 1-2 extra wounds in average. Not sure what mathematical average is but quick simulation by simulating several thousand times says about 1.6. So ork player would be better off with simply 2 extra wounds(and no degrade table).

Well not that FNP would be much different anyway. Less dice roll option would be better probably. Though albeit rolling dice is exciting but at least FNP it's easier.

tneva82 wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Dread: Extra point or two speed, couple more wounds(ork walkers are often referred as sturdy. Their warmachines are noted for being fully on fire and STILL lumbering forward) and point drop would help.

For gorkanaut/morkanaut and stompa on above line I would personally increase wound count AND make degration table less of a hindrance making ork walkers lumbering monster that needs to be blown completely apart to really stop the threat. Some sort of special save would be nice but thing is fluffwise inv save or at least permanent ones arent' appropriate. Void shield equilavents have never been stompa level but gargant and even if you retcon that they aren't as good as void shield(basically one use). Maybe 5+++ or 6+++ instead to represent the orky sturdyness.

I like the forgeworld Meka-Dread's "Ramshackle Monster" rule:
"Each time a Meka-Dread loses a wound from any weapon, roll a D6 - on a roll of 4+, the wound is ignored. The 1st time this roll is failed, the result needed is reduced to a 5+, and so on until the roll fails on a 6+ and this ability may no longer be used."
...adding that to all ork walkers/vehichles could make them a bit more survivable

Problem with that is that it's more dice rolling(=slows game) for maybe 1-2 extra wounds in average. Not sure what mathematical average is but quick simulation by simulating several thousand times says about 1.6. So ork player would be better off with simply 2 extra wounds(and no degrade table).

Well not that FNP would be much different anyway. Less dice roll option would be better probably. Though albeit rolling dice is exciting but at least FNP it's easier.

the "ramshackle monster" rule I quoted is a FNP save though...it just starts as a 4+, and degrades to a 5+, then 6+, then goes away, each time you fail to make a save with it...so, it's an improved, albeit non-permanent, FNP...a deff dread, with that rule, on top of it's 3+ armour, and non-degrading stats, could be decent imo

maybe some kind of universal 5+, or maybe only 6+ invuln save could be appropriate too though...something related to the orks passive collective psychic ability or something, not believing that the thing was damaged by the attack

SemperMortis wrote:
As for our shooting units, I again agree. My only point would be that you missed the durability issue with a lot of those units. Lootas/Burnas/Flash Gitz completely lack durability which is terrible when you team that with their abysmal shooting ability. I am fine with them being glass cannons...but they need to step up the cannon part and add some armor to that glass part before they are worth taking.

Yeah, I mentioned it, but I didn't extend on it. Fixing ork specialist durability is not easily fixed, but there have been plenty of suggestions over at the threat in suggested rules (gretchin acting like body guards, mob up with boyz, etc). I just hope GW is as creative at finding solutions as the dakka ork community is. I wouldn't mind if they just stole half the the ideas from that thread and claimed them to be their own

As it stands, Lootas are next to my bikes collecting dust, I did take 18 recently in 2 squads but only because I had built my list to 1750 for tournament play and my opponent wanted the full 2,000. So I tweaked my list and took lootas. In 2 shooting rounds they fired a total of 81 shots, they did a grand total of 4dmg to an enemy tank. Completely useless. My KMKs on the other hand almost killed themselves with bad rolls but still managed to do 6-7 times that dmg to my opponents same tanks.

I did the mathhammer some time ago that put lootaz at 8-9 points per model to compete with KMK. At 9 points the KMK would still win from a pure damage viewpoint, but lootas would have more durability, more range, more mobility and can beat a lot of deep strikers to death in combat. Back then I was worried that people would just flood the board with lootas if they did that and shoot everything deader than dead. But with the rule of 3 you would now be limited to 45 lootaz per army, so I think this would be a good path to follow with them. 45 lootaz were quite common in 5th and they didn't break the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZoBo wrote:
the "ramshackle monster" rule I quoted is a FNP save though...it just starts as a 4+, and degrades to a 5+, then 6+, then goes away, each time you fail to make a save with it...so, it's an improved, albeit non-permanent, FNP...a deff dread, with that rule, on top of it's 3+ armour, and non-degrading stats, could be decent imo

maybe some kind of universal 5+, or maybe only 6+ invuln save could be appropriate too though...something related to the orks passive collective psychic ability or something, not believing that the thing was damaged by the attack

I agree with tneva on this, it's a typical FW rule - very fluffy, but utterly impractical. For example, if you were hit by a lascannon that does 6 damage, you would have to roll every single dice one by one, to see if the value you need to roll drops after each roll.

Ramshackle on trukks is roughly half as efficient as a 6+ FNP save, so you could just put a 5+ ramshackle rule on the deff dread for a fluffy and useful rule.

 ZoBo wrote:

the "ramshackle monster" rule I quoted is a FNP save though...it just starts as a 4+, and degrades to a 5+, then 6+, then goes away, each time you fail to make a save with it...so, it's an improved, albeit non-permanent, FNP...a deff dread, with that rule, on top of it's 3+ armour, and non-degrading stats, could be decent imo

maybe some kind of universal 5+, or maybe only 6+ invuln save could be appropriate too though...something related to the orks passive collective psychic ability or something, not believing that the thing was damaged by the attack

Yeah well it's only marginally better(about 0.3 wounds more) and more clumsy=slower for game.

Do we want to make marginal boosts that slow down orks even further? Hell I don't want BIG boosts that slow down. I'm begging for GW NOT say make bad moon clan trait reroll 1's in shooting. I don't care is it good or bad. Even if it was awesome I dread imagining impact it would have on amount of turns I get by. I would want GW to buff them somehow that DOESN'T increase dice rolling(unfortunately GW seems to be hell bent on increasing amount of dice you need to roll to get through game so I might be in for nasty surprise with the codex shutting me out of tournaments/FLGS games with orks)

Thus I would rather take extra wound for deff than 6+++(it's only 0.33 wounds lost anyway) and 9 wounds rather than ramshackle monster is likewise acceptable. 10 would be even better as not only it would be quicker it would be even tougher.

tneva82 wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:

the "ramshackle monster" rule I quoted is a FNP save though...it just starts as a 4+, and degrades to a 5+, then 6+, then goes away, each time you fail to make a save with it...so, it's an improved, albeit non-permanent, FNP...a deff dread, with that rule, on top of it's 3+ armour, and non-degrading stats, could be decent imo

maybe some kind of universal 5+, or maybe only 6+ invuln save could be appropriate too though...something related to the orks passive collective psychic ability or something, not believing that the thing was damaged by the attack

Yeah well it's only marginally better(about 0.3 wounds more) and more clumsy=slower for game.

Do we want to make marginal boosts that slow down orks even further? Hell I don't want BIG boosts that slow down. I'm begging for GW NOT say make bad moon clan trait reroll 1's in shooting. I don't care is it good or bad. Even if it was awesome I dread imagining impact it would have on amount of turns I get by. I would want GW to buff them somehow that DOESN'T increase dice rolling(unfortunately GW seems to be hell bent on increasing amount of dice you need to roll to get through game so I might be in for nasty surprise with the codex shutting me out of tournaments/FLGS games with orks)

Thus I would rather take extra wound for deff than 6+++(it's only 0.33 wounds lost anyway) and 9 wounds rather than ramshackle monster is likewise acceptable. 10 would be even better as not only it would be quicker it would be even tougher.

Keep in mind that right now to be even remotely competitive you need 90-120 boyz MINIMUM! hopefully with the new codex whenever it comes out we can field Trukk Boyz again or even just smaller, more elite units of boyz for Troops and then rely on our specialists to get the job done. The point being that the model count is HOPEFULLY going to drop significantly as we move away from flooding the table with Ork Boyz and start using our specialists units that are for the most part useless right now. I Have 3 boxes of Burna Boyz collecting dust right now because I can't be bothered to open them and put them together because burna's are so terrible right now. ( I originally bought them to use in my Kommando Horde Army which has since been killed by Rule of 3)

But if my Warbikes become useful again and their price is dropped significantly they still take up 3-4x as many points as a Boy and I have 35 of them so do the math. Same thing for Lootas (I have 30) and Kanz/Dreadz/Naut (Another 15) These units are all super expensive compared to boyz and If they were usable I would field them.

Chiming in on the Dreads. I had a thought that GW probably thinks we(Ork players) would be fielding more mechaniks in our units to keep fixing our vehicles through out the game.
Personally I find my Trukks ramshackle to work far more often than it probably should so I would be thrilled to get that same rule on every Ork vehicle. (Probably excluding Mek guns.)
Going back to the first bit of my post here, I think it shows we may still be stuck in oldthink and or that GW really does play their game much different that we do.
I'd love a 15 to 20 point drop on dreads if not the ramshackle. (my own minimal wish listing.)

 warhead01 wrote:
Chiming in on the Dreads. I had a thought that GW probably thinks we(Ork players) would be fielding more mechaniks in our units to keep fixing our vehicles through out the game.
Personally I find my Trukks ramshackle to work far more often than it probably should so I would be thrilled to get that same rule on every Ork vehicle. (Probably excluding Mek guns.)
Going back to the first bit of my post here, I think it shows we may still be stuck in oldthink and or that GW really does play their game much different that we do.
I'd love a 15 to 20 point drop on dreads if not the ramshackle. (my own minimal wish listing.)

Problem is mechanik doesn't really help when it gets blown apart. Deff dread is easily one shottable. And then for bigger ones like gorkanaut/stompa 1 fix per turn isn't really that much when enemy is likely to do like 20+ wounds a turn stompa on last bracket is pretty minimal.

I agree. I think two things, it definitely needs another wound or two or even, like the ramshackle rule a chance to reduce some damage.
Thing is GW's mind set on 40K hasn't seemed to move very much over the years. We as players, a lot of us, "go hard on the paint" (The kids still say that right..?)

I am unsure how other armies slot their dreads bet we also get to take 3 for the slot. But the cost for even one is too much.
I kinda think that the Deff Dread needs a little something to make it a bit more flashy for the cost even if not really/or at all more effective.
I don't expect deff dreads to become a must have but I would love for them to be a slightly better choice for their points.

Regarding fixing, Do you any of you bother with it? do you plan ahead for it? I just a month or so ago put a big mek on a bike to push my KFF up with my trukks so I expect he'll do the same thing with my dreads and Nauts now he fixes more wounds than a spanner or a mek. The other thing that's bothering me is only being able to fix a vehicle once per turn. . If I understand that right then they mean that 2 meks can't fix the same vehicle. If that is actually so, I'd like to see that lifted. I may have it wrong though.

 Blackie wrote:

gungo wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

Drukhari bikes are now very good, maybe even game breaking without the max 3 limit. They used to be worse than ork warbikes.

You mean the super fast jet bikes with fly keyword and invul saves.. sure but standard bikes even beefed up ones like ravenwing aren’t that great the problem this edition is 2 wound models without good invul saves aren’t efficient.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

gungo wrote:

Hogiebear wrote:
Let’s hope you’re right. I hope that when it does come out it works and allows a variety of ork builds. It’s just frustrating that if you want to be competitive with orks there’s probably only one build to go for. I’ve found myself building ‘fun to play’ lists against people as they normally bring super strong lists that orks don’t have much chance against

Just looking at rules and other armies this edition. I can’t see them drastically making bikes better although they could possible make basic warbikers cheap enough to be decent, dreads this edition are also just ok without some crazy rules like a supacharga that can get them in combat first turn with good rolls I can’t see them being great either. However This edition seems to be about hordes were we excel at and gunlines do decent especially with reroll to hit and wound auras. Unfortunately we are horrid at shooting. The other decent units this edition are fast moving fly units so maybe deffkoptas and stormboys might be decent. So basically my point is unless a core unit like warbikers or dreads are ridiculously cheap I don’t expect them to be great regardless of what’s in the new codex.

Realistic changes are warbikers dropping in points and getting their exhaust cloud back. For deff dreads there could be a stratagem to improve them.
For most units "horrid at shooting" is a matter of point efficiency and survivability. The weapon profiles of units like lootaz, flash gits, the blasta jet or the morkanaut are pretty awesome, they just don't hit often enough for the points you need to invest in them.

the horrid at shooting for us is specifically bs5 multiple ways for armies to get -1 to hit or higher and thus making it impossible for us to ever hit them, and no reroll to hit Auras that other armies with decent shooting exploit.

Regarding ramshackle I use it a lot on my meka dread it is only good on 1 model where I can use my CP reroll if I fail the 4+ to keep the FNP going but once I fail again that fnp save is gone. I’m saving ~3 maybe at best 4 wounds even with the CP reroll to keep that dread alive, but t helps especially with the meka dread with its kff 5+ invul.

All I’m saying is this edition favors fast moving assault units that can cross the table in turn 1, decent shooting units (bs3) with reroll hit auras and high volume, and shooting units with fly that have the ability to fall back and shoot and hordes since this editional lacks units with insanely high attack values that can clear hordes. Dreads and bikes in other codexs geneally do poorly as well unless they start benefiting from the above.