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Fancied mixing it up a bit with the Space Wolves. Do you guys think this list will be any good?

1750 List:

Wolf Priest (Saga of the Hunter, Runic Armour, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Combi-Melta) – 150pts
Wolf Guard (Power Armour, Combi-Melta, Combi-Flamer) – 28pts
X10 Grey Hunters (X2 Meltaguns, Mark of the Wulfen, Wolf Std) & Deathwind Drop pod – 235pts
(this drop pod will drop empty -first turn)

Wolf Priest (Runic Armour, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Combi-Melta) – 140pts
X9 Wolf Scouts (x1 Meltagun, x8 Bolters) – 145pts

Rune Priest (Runic Armour, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Runic Axe, Living Lightening, Jaws of the World Wolf) – 130pts
Wolf Guard (Power Armour, Combi-Melta, Combi-Flamer) – 28pts
X8 Grey Hunters (Flamer, Wolf Std) & Rhino – 165pts

X10 Wolf Scouts (x10 Sniper rifles, Missile Launcher) – 190pts

Dreadnought (Assault Cannon, Heavy Flamer, CC Weapon) & Deathwind Drop Pod - 170pts

Rune Priest (Runic Armour, Wolf Tooth Necklace, Runic staff, Living Lightening, Murderous Hurricaine) – 130pts
x5 Long Fangs (x4 missile launchers, Flamer)

x5 Long Fangs (x4 missile launchers, Flamer)


The idea being that the Sniper rifle scouts and small grey hunter/rune priest squad will camp out with the long fangs, at the back.

Big Grey hunter/Wolf Priest/Wolf Guard pack outflanks and pumps 4 Meltas into the back of some nasty transport / heavy armour.

Scout Squad / Wolf priest pack outflank to support the grey hunters pop off a couple of meltas

Prefered enemy with both of these units means i'll be re-rolling alot of 1's.

Dread can drop down where he's needed. and will supported by deathwind (not a bad DP upgrade i have to say!!)

What are your thoughts guys?

You will have to change the wargear for your wolf priests, Leaders of the Pack (pg 81) forbids them from having the exact same gear.

Pretty sure the runic axe an runic staff cover this
- runic weapon are different to BRB stated 'specialist' force weapons as it just adds the runic weapon rules to already existing force weapons - by taking the two different force weapons I cover the load-out requirement

Eisensapper wrote:
You will have to change the wargear for your wolf priests, Leaders of the Pack (pg 81) forbids them from having the exact same gear.

Wolf Priests are also HQ units.

yeah wolf priests are HQ but hes only got four HQ which is still legal with space wolves.

also you can still have some of the same war gear options it just can't be the exact same load out as each other. atleast that has always been my understanding of it.

cuss wrote:
yeah wolf priests are HQ but hes only got four HQ which is still legal with space wolves.

Beat me to it


Automatically Appended Next Post:

cuss wrote:


also you can still have some of the same war gear options it just can't be the exact same load out as each other. atleast that has always been my understanding of it.

Nah - rune priest aren't allowed the same two psychic powers as well as wargear. Sagas are seperate too although it doesn't count if you use a special character - say Njal for example then use another rune priest with saga of majesty

cuss wrote:


also you can still have some of the same war gear options it just can't be the exact same load out as each other. atleast that has always been my understanding of it.

That's the point I was trying to make, all HQ must have different sets of war gear, if you switch out the combies you should be ok.

Also, you can't combine Saga of the Hunter with Runic Armour. Your outflanking Wolf Priest will have to make do with regular Power Armour.

Ah sorry! Mis-read your original post and confused Rune and Wolf priests.

- (I don't have the book to hand for exact texts) I know it's infantry only and something tells me no terminator armour but Prett sure there's no mention of not being able to take Runic Armour with the saga of the hunter?

I could stand corrected if someone coud check and confirm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Googled it and Checked another thread - only can be taken by power armour models! Good spot!

I had reasoned that runic armour was pretty much power armour with runes - ill make some changes - that'll solve my wargear problem!

Sorry mate, Saga of the hunter states models in power armor only.

 Yetii wrote:
Pretty sure the runic axe an runic staff cover this
- runic weapon are different to BRB stated 'specialist' force weapons as it just adds the runic weapon rules to already existing force weapons - by taking the two different force weapons I cover the load-out requirement

Actually, this is incorrect. There is no difference between a runic 'axe' and a runic 'staff' as they are all just plain "runic weapons" which according to the BRB page 60 is an "Unusual Force Weapon".

BRB, page 60 wrote:
Unusual Force Weapons
Many models have unusual Force weapons that have one or more unique rules. If a Force Weapon has its' own unique close combat rules, treat it as and AP3 Melee weapon with the additional rules and characteristics presented in it's entry.

Since the runic weapon 'wounds demons on a 2+' (see Codex: Space Wolves, p. 36 bottom of the page), it has it's own unique close combat rules and is therefore an unusual force weapon. It doesn't matter if it's modeled as an axe, staff or sword. Thus your Rune Priests must also have different wargear.

As for the details of your list, I would HIGHLY recommend dropping ALL of your wolf tooth necklaces. The wolf priests and the rune priests all have weapon skill 5. That means they hit most dudes (WS 4 or less) on a 3+ already. When fighting a model with WS5 or higher, the WTN only gives you a marginal boost (hits on3+ instead of 4+). This is not worth 10 points each.

Furthermore, Rune Priest suck in close combat anyway. You don't want them anywhere near close combat because then they can't use their powers.

Wolf Priests aren't much better in CC, because they're forced to use their S7 AP4 power maul. Against an enemy character they'll almost never ignore an armor save. However, you actually DO want the Wolf Priest in close combat as a leader of a unit because the WP will buff the unit. For example, the wolf priest has preferred enemy against any one unit type. I usually choose "Infantry" as this unit type an attach him to a Grey Hunter or Wolf Guard unit. Preferred Enemy the lets every model in that unit re-roll all ToHit and ToWound dice rolls of '1' in BOTH shooting AND close combat. This is very effective when combined with plasma weapons (shooting) and/or MotW, Power weapons/Fists.

In any case, your characters really don't need to spend an extra 10 points on a piece of wargear that won't really help them.

There is another problems with this list too. Wolf Guard are purchased in units of 3 - 10 models and THEN they are attached to units as pack leaders. But you've only got 2 wolf guard models so this isn't legal either.

Also, is it legal for a model to take both Combi-Flamer and Combi-Melta?

 Eisensapper wrote:
Also, is it legal for a model to take both Combi-Flamer and Combi-Melta?

Under Wolf Guard it says.

"Model may replace bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon for ... Combi-plasma, Combi-melta or Combi-flamer 5pts per model"

The way I read that, it means you can only have one combi weapon and you have to trade in your bolt pistol, your CCW or both to get it.

That's what I thought too.

 Grugknuckle wrote:

 Eisensapper wrote:
Also, is it legal for a model to take both Combi-Flamer and Combi-Melta?

Under Wolf Guard it says.

"Model may replace bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon for ... Combi-plasma, Combi-melta or Combi-flamer 5pts per model"

The way I read that, it means you can only have one combi weapon and you have to trade in your bolt pistol, your CCW or both to get it.

Thats ridiculous, By that logic, a Wolf Guard, kitted with a thunder hammer and stormshield or double wolf claws is illegal because it has a pretty much the same statement

you trade one for one - one combi-weapon replaces the bolt pistol, the other replaces the close combat weapon. The same as a thunder hammer and storm shield. You can only fire one at a time, and they're one use only

There are rules for double fisting pistols, but they also have a CCW profile. Personally I think having no CCW should drop you to initiative 1. Seeing as there is no rule against it, I suppose it could be chalked up to SW cheese.

Another thing to point out with this list is that with 2 units of Wolf Scouts, 1 "unit" of Wolf Guard, and a Dreadnought, you have 4 Elites choices. This list really needs some work not only to become "legal," but just more coherent overall. I'd recommend following some of the suggestions that Gurgknuckle mentioned, and perhaps even considering starting from scratch without so much of an emphasis on Outflanking - its really not all that great in 6th edition.

Also, when it comes to the SotH with Runic Armor - one could argue that Runic Armor is technically a type of Power Armor, as page 61 of the codex says "this type of power armor..." but I'd leave that up to the rules lawyers. Frankly, I think the note is there in the rules summary to keep people from outflanking with IC's in Terminator Armor/Bikes/Jump Packs, not necessarily Runic Armor.

I know this is probably being a rule lawyer, but in the upgrades it says "replace Power Armor with Runic Armor". It really is a very minor thing considering everything else that is wrong with the list.

 Eisensapper wrote:
I know this is probably being a rule lawyer, but in the upgrades it says "replace Power Armor with Runic Armor". It really is a very minor thing considering everything else that is wrong with the list.

True, but the real question stems from how literally do you take some of the wordings in the codex. On page 61, for example, where it outlines the different types of armor available to the Space Wolves, it says about runic armor:

"... These suits of power armor, ancient beyond reckoning, are further enhanced with runes of protection that bear the blessing of the Rune Priests."

In this way, Runic Armor is technically considered to be a type of Power Armor. However, just below that, the exact rules for Runic Armor are laid out (the 2+ armor save and the 5+ ward against wounds caused by Psychic Powers) and "Power Armor" is not mentioned at all. Since it could be interpreted in different ways, I wouldn't blame anyone for taking an IC with Runic Armor and SotH. However, I could also see a TO ruling against it according to RAW. There was a thread on Bolter and Chainsword about a year ago about this topic and it went back a forth and didn't really get anywhere, so I'd imagine its just going to exist in rules limbo until a FAQ (unlikely) or a more defined entry in the new SW codex.

Thats FAQ'd - a Wolf guard who joins a unit due to his pack leader rules counts as part of the unit type - I.e. if he joins grey hunters, he's part of that troop unit, if he joins long fangs he's part of that heavy support.

If for example the wolf guard in the long fang squad wanted to join the grey hunters, he'd still count as heavy support rather than suddenly a troop choice.

If I took 3 wolf guard as a squad minimum and assigned them all to troop choices the 'elites' slot they took up frees up as there is no longer a squad of wolf guard, I now have squad leaders.

Saga of the hunter does specify power armour only - runic armour IS power armour but has additional rules so is only seen to be power armour in a fluff sense rather than a RAW sense.

They are still a unit, just before deployment. In your example, if all the LF are killed you left with one WG who is considered Elite. Also if you have 9 GH and 1 WG you cannot take another 'free' weapon upgrade because the WG is not yet apart of the group before the battle starts.

How adding WG is supposed to work is this: You have 3 units of BC and 1 unit of WG. Just before deployment you declare you are putting one WG with each BC unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah just re-read the FAQ on WG in units, so you are right they are considered apart of that unit when the game starts, but before that they are still a elite choice.

FAQ States:

If a Wolf Guard Pack Leader has joined a unit of Troops, does that unit cease to be a scoring unit? And does the Wolf Guard cease to count as an Elite model? (p86)

A: When a Wolf Guard model joins another unit because of his Pack Leader special rule he becomes part of that unit to all intents and purposes. For instance, a Pack Leader that leads a Troops unit will still be able to claim an objective even if his Troops unit is wiped out – he is considered to be part of that Troops unit. He would also still be able to deploy in a mission that only allows Troops units to be deployed at first. Conversely, a Pack Leader that leads a Long Fang unit is counted as part of a Heavy Support choice, even if under the effects of Logan Grimnar’s The Great Wolf special rule. This also applies to the calculation of victory points – the Wolf Guard who have been split off from their original Wolf Guard unit count as part of their assigned unit in all respects.
For example, I have a Wolf Guard squad of 10 and I like to split 3 of them off to be Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, one to lead my Blood Claws, one to lead my Grey Hunters, one to lead my Long Fangs. My opponent would score one victory point if he kills off all 7 of the Wolf Guard left in the squad after splitting, who are still forming a ‘normal’ unit. He doesn't need to kill all 10 of the Wolf Guard to get that victory point, as the other three Wolf Guard are now part of other squads. Conversely, because the Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are attached to these new squads, he would not score a victory point for killing those squads unless he kills ALL of the models in those packs, including the Wolf Guard Pack Leaders.


Read the question - 'Does the wolf Guard Cease to count as an elite model?'

Then read the FAQ Answer properly: the Wolf Guard who have been split off from their original Wolf Guard unit count as part of their assigned unit in all respects.

They are still an elite choice in the FoC.

FAQ states in updates PG86 that they gain 'character' in addition to its normal type. FAQ also states that for all intents and purposes the wolf guard counts as part of his assigned unit.

the rulebook states under 'characters' -
"Most characters are fielded in units from the start of the game, and represent squad leaders, such as a space marine veteran sergeant. They have their own profile, but do not have a seperate entry. They are effectively just another trooper in their unit, with enhanced characteristics and perhaps a wider selection of weapons and wargear choices.


So basically a character does not have a seperate entry to the unit it is a part of. If reassigned to a squad, the wolf guard becomes 'character, troops'. It doesn't start as 'elite' either - it starts as 'character' who then joins the unit at the beginning of the game the same way any other 'character' sergeant does.

Space Wolf FAQ pg 3

Q: Can a Grey Hunter unit that consists of nine Grey Hunters and
a Wolf Guard Pack Leader take a second special weapon? (p26)
A: No, as the unit is not comprised of ten models until just
before the battle starts, at which point it is far too late to be
tinkering with your army list. This provides players who wish to
mount their Grey Hunters in a Rhino or Drop Pod with a
difficult tactical choice – extra special weapon or Wolf Guard
pack leader?

If he is not apart of the unit in the FoC, he is still considered a elite.

I think you're missing the point entirely.

What do we know: A character as per the rule book does not have a seperate entry to the unit it is a part of.

Basically once a wolf guard is a squad leader he ceases to be Elites as per the character rule from the rule book and the FAQ on wolf guard squad leaders. He counts as part if the unit he is joining for ALL intents and purposes and DOES NOT have a seperate entry. Granted he might not count as part if the unit until the game starts as part of the FAQ but no where does anything explicitly say he still counts as elites as far as FoC is concerned once he has this rule.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another point from the FAQ

Q: When every model in a Wolf Guard Pack has been split up to lead other packs does/can the enemy score a Victory Point for that unit? (p86)
A: No.


No being the answer Because that unit is technically no longer a unit anymore. Having all been split up, they've gained character as their unit type as well as the unit type they are a part of therefore ceasing to be a stand alone elites choice therefore not taking up a elites slot on the FoC

I agree when he joins the squad he ceases to be elite, but you split up the squad just prior to deployment. They are not Sgt's because they are not considered a unit upgrade. They are not independent characters, because the the codex specifically says only Battle Leaders can be IC. The closest thing that SW have to unit 'character,troops' is Arjac and Lukas.

Read the Errata updates- a wolf guard gains the 'character unit type when taken as a squad leader'


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Exact text being:

Page 86 – Wolf Guard, Pack Leaders
Add the following sentence to the end of the paragraph: “Furthermore, a Wolf Guard Pack Leader’s Unit Type becomes ‘Character’ in addition to its normal type.

It still doesnt change the fact that you have to purchases a WG unit then split them up on deployment.

I'm not saying you don't have to purchase a wolf guard unit, if they're split up they no longer stand as an elites entity due to the rules, errata and FAQ's as mentioned above.

If they did still count as an elites unit, they'd have a seperate entry and therefore couldn't be used as squad leaders, voiding the 'character' rules placed on them by choosing them to be squad leaders