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Does Mephiston still have the upper hand over the new calgar?

Considering Mephiston's Sword is AP 3 and Calgar still has, to my knowledge, Eternal Warrior one would assume no.

yeah but with transfixing gaze Mephiston is striking first, rerolling hits and wounds. Thats not dissmissable. However, chances are since his sword is ap3 that Calgar would probably win after 2-3 rounds. That is unless someone sucked as bad as I do rolling 2+'s

They have such different jobs though, comparing them 1v1 is silly. Calgar is likely to win the fight mathwise, of that I'm sure.

But Calgar is a force multiplier who can win most fights in the game. Mephiston is a scalpel, useful for moving around the battlefield, hiding, and killing specific targets.

Even then, only paying 25 points more to get Marneus makes him the big winner. Mephiston costs as much as a LR, has no buff ability for the rest of the army, can't touch 2+ armour, has no invuln, has a silly model..............

Also, you usually see some Honor Guard with Calgar... So they probably won't be in a challenge together.

Lucarikx

Lack of invuln and an AP3 weapon means that Mephiston is Calgar's gimp

So the theory hammer now has Calgar taking Mephiston down, what about the maths?

I'd do them but I have neither the Blood Angels or Space Marines Codices.

In 3 rounds calgar will get 15 attacks, which is 7 hit, which is about 6 wounds. Mephy has no save. Mephy dies in 3 turns.

Let's say mephy swings 30 times, hits 20, wounds 18, calgar fails 3 2+ saves. Calgar is still alive and this is under some rediculous scenario where mephy is getting 10 attacks per turn ( I think he is best case 7-8 with might of heroes). I rounded a LOT of things in mephy's favor and he still loses.

Someone who plays BA could correct me on this.

Mephiston is a bully. Plain and simple. But he is marvelous for eliminating troops.

Martel732 wrote:
Mephiston is a bully. Plain and simple. But he is marvelous for eliminating troops.

Ah, Martel my favourite Blood Angel nay sayer ( I kid, because I actually find your knowledge of Blood Angels insightful) what would you say is our best way to deal with Calgar?

Either plasma, or lots and lots of bolters - or both. He's still only T4, but as mentioned he's normally found in a unit of Honour Guard, so that's a lot of 2+ to get past. You want plasma to force those 4+ invulnerable saves, or take out Honour Guard if you can position it right (criminally easy with our own DoA'ing Honour Guard, though expect them to die horribly in the next turn).
Enough standard bolter shots will force 1's on saves, though that's a lot more Tacticals or Scouts than your average BA player is comfortable with. This would also be the route to take if Calgar takes a TH/SS bodyguard instead.

I'd say Assault Cannons too, for still wounding on 2+ with a chance of Rending. But they come on expensive models and in limited numbers, so I fear using them solely on Calgar's unit would gimp your firepower elsewhere. Ehh, maybe Baal Predators could be worth it - depends on what else you're fielding I guess, and whether they'd be picked out and shot down too early to be useful.


To answer the original question - Calgar takes Mephiston's lunch money, hands it back and tells him to go get some milk so he'll grow big and strong for next time. He did ever since the change to 6th to be honest, never mind the newer Calgar.

Eldercaveman wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Mephiston is a bully. Plain and simple. But he is marvelous for eliminating troops.

Ah, Martel my favourite Blood Angel nay sayer ( I kid, because I actually find your knowledge of Blood Angels insightful) what would you say is our best way to deal with Calgar?

Shoot him with grav. Or plasma. Or even bolters. If you're Eldar you an lol him off the board with scatter/star cannons. Just force the saves and marine special characters die. Of course, you'll have to go through the LoSs, but you wanted to kill those marines anyway.

Mephiston actually has a bit better utility now than when 6th dropped because the Eldar no longer make his head blow up. He's actually quite good against them, as he's the boogey man for a wraith list. Too bad the rest of the list is so meh.

Ap of weapons alone, calgar wins.

Yeah now that he always has a 2+ save, Mephiston doesn't stand a chance vs Calgar, barring some major luck of course. Not to mention that Calgar just plain buffs the rest of his army while Mephiston draws fire.

Yeah, but Mephiston can't be demeched. He's a wonderful bully.

Indeed. I'll never understand why people insist on running him with Rulebook powers rather than Codex ones... especially when they say "oh well I'll put him in a Stormraven, it's ok!" Why spend an additional ~200pts for less reliable powers when his default do the job already?

Anyway yeah - Mephiston destroys infantry and weak HQs, Calgar just beats on pretty much anything.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Indeed. I'll never understand why people insist on running him with Rulebook powers rather than Codex ones... especially when they say "oh well I'll put him in a Stormraven, it's ok!" Why spend an additional ~200pts for less reliable powers when his default do the job already?

Anyway yeah - Mephiston destroys infantry and weak HQs, Calgar just beats on pretty much anything.

Plus you lose a power taking codex powers.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Indeed. I'll never understand why people insist on running him with Rulebook powers rather than Codex ones... especially when they say "oh well I'll put him in a Stormraven, it's ok!" Why spend an additional ~200pts for less reliable powers when his default do the job already?

Anyway yeah - Mephiston destroys infantry and weak HQs, Calgar just beats on pretty much anything.

Plus you lose a power taking codex powers.

Yup, people always seem to miss that little detail (and I assume you meant rulebook powers?).

Mephiston owns anything with AV as well. Like..... Waveserpents.

Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Indeed. I'll never understand why people insist on running him with Rulebook powers rather than Codex ones... especially when they say "oh well I'll put him in a Stormraven, it's ok!" Why spend an additional ~200pts for less reliable powers when his default do the job already?

Anyway yeah - Mephiston destroys infantry and weak HQs, Calgar just beats on pretty much anything.

Plus you lose a power taking codex powers.

Yup, people always seem to miss that little detail (and I assume you meant rulebook powers?).

Yeah I meant rulebook powers.

Martel732 wrote:Mephiston owns anything with AV as well. Like..... Waveserpents.

That is TRUE, something I hadn't put much thought into. I might crack out Mephiston soon, always enjoyed using him.

This is also encouraging to me! The last time I brought Mephiston out was actually against Eldar, and they DID make his head blow up. So, I dropped him. Might be time for a rematch with that tricksy guy...

Thanks for the heads up, Martel. Still keeping the faith...?

I'm going for the "Allied Space marines" strategy now. Run what seems to be decent about BA, and then try to supplement with good stuff from another chapter (DA, maybe White Scars?)