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I branch off this discussion from this thread.

P.51 of BRB says:
"Some weapons can be used in different ways, representing different power settings or types of ammo. Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn."

I really cannot see why this would not apply to Howling Banshee Exarch's Triskele, Jain Zar's Silent Death, Singing Spear, Laser Lance, Star Lance and Wailing Doom, meaning that you could not use them in following assault phase if you shoot with them in the previous shooting phase (or in overwatch.) Rule seems pretty clear: if weapon has many profiles, you have to choose one and use that for the whole turn. However, do people actually play like this? I don't think so. Am I missing something or has everyone just communally decided to ignore this rule because it's stupid?

(This would probably also apply to St. Celestine's Ardent Blade and Arjack Rockfist's Foehammer.)

Didn't catch that in the BRB beforehand. I've never played it like that before, since I don't have any weapons in my army that do that...but I will now. I appreciate you pointing it out.

The way I see it is this. The permission to use the profile (or profiles) comes from it simply being there. This wording doesn't actually take that permission away - "which" isn't mutually exclusive to one or the other, it can refer to plurals as well - it simply clarifies you can choose whether to shoot using that weapon, assault using that weapon, or - key omitted part here - *choose both*.

So for instance, let's say I want to charge in with the Triskele but also use it in combat - I look at the separate lines and can choose which to use this turn. I choose both. Done!

'Choose which to use' pretty strongly suggest you can choose only one.

How do people actually play this? There are bunch of weapons this rule should logically affect.

My interpretation of the rule is that if a weapon has multiple stat lines, then you choose which to use in every relevant phase, unless there is a specific rule that limits a weapons use to either shooting or CC in a turn. I think only Ork Burnas currently have this restriction.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a follow up, do the weapons noted above have 2 separate stat lines for shooting and CC, or do they have 1 stat line that includes "Melee"?

 Flinty wrote:
My interpretation of the rule is that if a weapon has multiple stat lines, then you choose which to use in every relevant phase, unless there is a specific rule that limits a weapons use to either shooting or CC in a turn. I think only Ork Burnas currently have this restriction.

So you interpret phase even though it explicitly says turn?

As a follow up, do the weapons noted above have 2 separate stat lines for shooting and CC, or do they have 1 stat line that includes "Melee"?

Good question.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
My interpretation of the rule is that if a weapon has multiple stat lines, then you choose which to use in every relevant phase, unless there is a specific rule that limits a weapons use to either shooting or CC in a turn. I think only Ork Burnas currently have this restriction.

So you interpret phase even though it explicitly says turn?

yeah... I guess its because the only way it makes sense to me is if you take the bit that says"Some weapons can be used in combat as well as shooting. " and stick it on the end of the paragraph. From memory, melee mode for the vast majority of weapons is a "melee" marker in their normal profile and not a separate "ammo type" stat line. I guess I am also heavily influenced by previous rules editions as well though

In the main section that describes the weapons they have two profiles for example:

SCORPION'S CLAW

Range..................S..................AP..................Type
.....-.......................x2...................1....................Melee, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy
...18".....................5....................4....................Assault 4, Bladestorm

In the reference section in the back it is listed as two completely separate profile, one under RANGED WEAPONS, the other under MELEE WEAPONS. Compared to the Eldar Missile Launcher which lists all profiles under one heading.

 Happyjew wrote:
In the main section that describes the weapons they have two profiles for example:

SCORPION'S CLAW

Range..................S..................AP..................Type
.....-.......................x2...................1....................Melee, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy
...18".....................5....................4....................Assault 4, Bladestorm

In the reference section in the back it is listed as two completely separate profile, one under RANGED WEAPONS, the other under MELEE WEAPONS. Compared to the Eldar Missile Launcher which lists all profiles under one heading.

Reference doesn't override main section. The weapons fall under page 51.

The only current weapon I can think of that has a clear restriction on whether you use it in Shooting or Assault phases is the Ork Burnas' weapons.

I am pretty sure that the wording about choosing is for choosing between different profiles that are used in the same phase such as different ammo types, as is stated in the fist sentence of the paragraph. a weapon that has separate profiles for each phase can only be using the profile for that phase and there is no choice.

on page 50 of the BRB it states that weapons with the melee type can only be used in close combat,


I think when the entire section is taken in context you should be able to choose a single profile per phase to use. If you could only use a weapon in either the shooting or the close combat phase then I would think they would explicitly state it is only usable in on phase or the other but not both. And if that were the case, what good would pistols be really? with their range as short as it is you would either shoot or you would gain the extra attack in close combat by having the multiple weapons

If they mean 'phase', why say 'turn'? (And this would still mean you couldn't shoot a weapon in overwatch and fight with it in the close combat that follows.)

Now, I'm sure Kelly didn't mean these Eldar weapons to be useless, but he must have forgotten this rule. Which is not surprising, as entire 40K player base seems to have done so as well.

 Crimson wrote:
Which is not surprising, as entire 40K player base seems to have done so as well.

I wouldn't say "entire 40k player base".
I'm familiar with it as are most people I play with because it's relevant to quite a few weapons.

I think in large part its a rule that flew relatively under the radar. I played Eldar all throughout 5th Edition, and into 6th edition. All the weapons you pointed out worked in both phases in 5th edition ( throwing a spear/ hammer, and attacking with it).

So you've got a rules interpretation grandfathered in where people assume that their singing spears and laser lances work like they have always worked. Its possible that codex writers fell into the same trap.

Regardless. I believe your interpretation is correct, and just it was not widely recognized by players, due to it being a drastic change from the old rules, and on relatively few weapons, and a restriciton which is only mentioned once in a long rulebook filled with complex rules.

From now on I will be playing it as choose one mode per turn. As that is what the rules say. But I do find it unsettling that so many weapons were nerfed from 5th edition, and even more so that nobody noticed!