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so you're able to grant a number of infantry units the ability to infiltrate. Yet, if you join an HQ to a unit with infiltrate it does not get the ability itself. I see this as having a pre-existing ability. Yet, if I had a daemon prince (MC) in a unit of PM and granted that unit the ability to infiltrate, am I not also granting the daemon prince the ability too since it was not pre-existing

If an IC does not have Infiltrate he can not join a unit of Infiltrators when deploying your army. Likewise if an IC has Infiltrate he cannot give it to a squad (ignoring Shrike for the moment as that is another issue and is irrelevant to the question). This is due to the timing issues involved. First you deploy your army except those who have Infiltrate. Then you deploy Infiltrators. In order for an IC to be joined to a unit at deloyment, it must be deployed in coherency.

Also how is a DP in a unit, it is not an IC.

This won't work for two reasons:

1.Master of Deception occurs BEFORE deployment so there is no way of conferring the ability in time for it to be useful.

2. A Daemon Prince is not an IC, so cannot join a unit anyway.

Aaaarghhh! Ninja'd!

 Happyjew wrote:
If an IC does not have Infiltrate he can not join a unit of Infiltrators when deploying your army. Likewise if an IC has Infiltrate he cannot give it to a squad (ignoring Shrike for the moment as that is another issue and is irrelevant to the question). This is due to the timing issues involved. First you deploy your army except those who have Infiltrate. Then you deploy Infiltrators. In order for an IC to be joined to a unit at deloyment, it must be deployed in coherency.

Also how is a DP in a unit, it is not an IC.

My bad, i don't have a DP yet and he was different because he was a MC... Let's use a regular old lord. infiltrate does not confer to an IC when he joins a unit that has the USR. Yet, what if he's in that unit when it is "blessed" with that USR

He would not be with the unit until both the Lord and the unit are deployed which is well after you nominate the units with Infiltrate.

I know you can't infiltrate your character with the squads you give the USR to due to deployment timing issues. But is there anything stopping you from attaching him to them and outflanking?

 Eldarain wrote:
I know you can't infiltrate your character with the squads you give the USR to due to deployment timing issues. But is there anything stopping you from attaching him to them and outflanking?

Not that I'm aware of. Instead of deploying both units go into reserves and you can declare the IC to be attached to the unit. Since one model has Outflank via Infiltrate it works.

Dra'al Nacht wrote:
This won't work for two reasons:

1.Master of Deception occurs BEFORE deployment so there is no way of conferring the ability in time for it to be useful.

2. A Daemon Prince is not an IC, so cannot join a unit anyway.

Aaaarghhh! Ninja'd!

You roll to gain the warlord trait master of deception before deployment that is correct. This does not state when it is taken into effect in deployment as it is seen in the BRB for the reasoning why its rolled for first. And the IC can begin a game already in a unit, which then becomes blessed by the warlord trait.


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 Happyjew wrote:
He would not be with the unit until both the Lord and the unit are deployed which is well after you nominate the units with Infiltrate.

Can you give me a BRB page for this? because I cant find it in the warlord trait section or deployment section when the warlord trait comes into effect and why the IC cannot be in the unit when it is blessed

 chillis wrote:

Dra'al Nacht wrote:
This won't work for two reasons:

1.Master of Deception occurs BEFORE deployment so there is no way of conferring the ability in time for it to be useful.

2. A Daemon Prince is not an IC, so cannot join a unit anyway.

Aaaarghhh! Ninja'd!

You roll to gain the warlord trait master of deception before deployment that is correct. This does not state when it is taken into effect in deployment as it is seen in the BRB for the reasoning why its rolled for first. And the IC can begin a game already in a unit, which then becomes blessed by the warlord trait.

The only way to join an IC to a unit is either declare them together in Reserves, or deploy the IC in coherency with the unit. So either you nominate the unit before deploying (in which case the IC is not yet part of the unit), or you declare after deploying in which case when you deployed nobody had Infiltrate.


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 chillis wrote:
size=9]Automatically Appended Next Post:[/size]

 Happyjew wrote:
He would not be with the unit until both the Lord and the unit are deployed which is well after you nominate the units with Infiltrate.

Can you give me a BRB page for this? because I cant find it in the warlord trait section or deployment section when the warlord trait comes into effect and why the IC cannot be in the unit when it is blessed

Very first paragraph under Joining and Leaving a Unit under the IC special rule.

Also, Master of Deception tells you to nominate the units before deployment.

 Happyjew wrote:

 chillis wrote:

Dra'al Nacht wrote:
This won't work for two reasons:

1.Master of Deception occurs BEFORE deployment so there is no way of conferring the ability in time for it to be useful.

2. A Daemon Prince is not an IC, so cannot join a unit anyway.

Aaaarghhh! Ninja'd!

You roll to gain the warlord trait master of deception before deployment that is correct. This does not state when it is taken into effect in deployment as it is seen in the BRB for the reasoning why its rolled for first. And the IC can begin a game already in a unit, which then becomes blessed by the warlord trait.

The only way to join an IC to a unit is either declare them together in Reserves, or deploy the IC in coherency with the unit. So either you nominate the unit before deploying (in which case the IC is not yet part of the unit), or you declare after deploying in which case when you deployed nobody had Infiltrate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chillis wrote:
size=9]Automatically Appended Next Post:[/size]

 Happyjew wrote:
He would not be with the unit until both the Lord and the unit are deployed which is well after you nominate the units with Infiltrate.

Can you give me a BRB page for this? because I cant find it in the warlord trait section or deployment section when the warlord trait comes into effect and why the IC cannot be in the unit when it is blessed

Very first paragraph under Joining and Leaving a Unit under the IC special rule.

so is the beginning of the game not before deployment, and is there even set units before deployment? you have all your models that you have listed to bring and the points but not set units. In the section of determining the warlord trait it states that the warlord trait is rolled first because it "could grant special deployment rules to part of a player's force that may affect a player's subsequent deployment of their forces"


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Dra'al Nacht wrote:
Also, Master of Deception tells you to nominate the units before deployment.

game set and match-over looked that.
The alternative that makes an IC and other unit both get infiltrate as a single unit is to simply give the IC the USR- if anybody was wanting to do that... Thread was mainly to see if multiple IC's could benefit