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I ran into this at a 40k league/campaign event a while back.

I was using the standard 28mm bases, he had his Space Marines on 30mm bases. (The kind with a lip around the edge. You've probably seen them on Warmachine troop models.) In fact, all of his models were on lipped bases. (It wasn't a big deal for his terminators; although they were on the lipped bases, they were still the standard 40mm base size. And of course, the larger stuff like bikes and vehicles weren't an issue. )

I had no problem with it whatsoever; he was a pretty jovial player and his army was fantastically painted... but I wanted to know how you felt. (I have a lot of Warmachine models that I am on occasion tempted to use in 40k these days.) Does it make a big gameplay difference? I know it's technically against the rules so it probably wouldn't fly in a tournament, but would you take issue? If you were a tournament organizer, what would you tell the player?

Depends... Is it MFA? Is it for Cinematic reasons? Does it impact gameplay and to what degree?

There is no definition for 'porn' but "I know it when I see it". Same with MFA.

Some armies, oversized bases may play a much larger role than others. Also, having a random character VS a whole unit of rank and file can impact the game as well. And when people spout 'Advantages and disadvantages' the problem is being thinking human beings, we are designed to exploit the advantages and mitigate the disadvantages.

In my Experience, Tru-scale marines cause more issues with LOS than with base size, but I have seen whole armies on 40mm which impacts the game too far to be reasonable.

25mm to 30mm may be manageable, but if there was ever a question, I would ask that it be played as if it was the correct base size.

In 40K I wouldn't mind. What difference does it make, really? The bases reach an extra 2,5mm in each direction? A non-issue IMO, in a game that has far bigger in-game issues than that.

If I was a TO I probably would not allow it, just to safe myself and the tourney from endless butthurt.

So long as it looks good, I don't care at all. Then again, I'm a guy who uses old Terminators on the 25mm bases they came on back in the day. It's not like he's putting Azrael on a Dreadnought base to increase the range of his 6" invuln bubble or something.

Yes I have no problem with it. It just a few mm in the difference.

I generally feel if you're going to be anal about a few millimeters of base size, you're playing the wrong game.

What you gain from going going up a few mm isn't a huge deal. I'm not a fan of going down in base size dramatically, like 25mm on Terminators, 40mm Broadsides, and IG Heavy Weapons Teams on separate bases.

I don't mind some transition time on recent base changes like the Broadsides, but I am a bit annoyed when an IG player hasn't rebased his minis after ten years,

I wouldn't care, but a lot of my models are mounted on over or under size bases for various reasons. Base size doesn't usually make much difference. If someone abused the base size for a special advantage it would be pretty obvious.

@ MAsterslowpoke. I haven't re-based any of my models as they are on the base they came on 20+years ago. Just because GW decided to go with 40mm bases for termies, or 60mm base on my Wraithlords verses the square bases they came with. I still base my IG heavy weapons the same way that they used to come, on 25mm bases. I have yet to see a rule in the BRB that state that I have to change my base size on any of my 11 armies to make them "legal"

As someone who has a few non standard minis on non standard bases, I would be a massive hypocrite if I had a problem with someone else doing it, unless it was clear MFA.

That said, in 40K, I can't really see how base size can give you any real advantage?

Its harder to move into cover, harder to deep strike.

Except being able to get more models in base contact in assault, but that isn't an inherent advantage, it depends largely on the models on question, is unlikely to make any difference given pile in moves, and doesn't give extra attacks.

So, a few more HoW attacks? That's about all the issue I can see.

There was a discussion about using square based daemons vs round based daemons, and the math came down to it that those corners would give players a small amount of extra charge distance. While most people don't think it's a big deal, how many times have you assaulted and been off by eighths of an inch?

A larger base can affect the size of a bubble, think about the difference between a big mek on his base, and a big mek in a battlewagon? While that's an extreme example that's the same premise as increasing your base size.

Personally, I've no issue with it in a casual setting.

Anyone who got that worked up about a tabletop game really ought to get out more.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
What you gain from going going up a few mm isn't a huge deal. I'm not a fan of going down in base size dramatically, like 25mm on Terminators, 40mm Broadsides, and IG Heavy Weapons Teams on separate bases.

I don't mind some transition time on recent base changes like the Broadsides, but I am a bit annoyed when an IG player hasn't rebased his minis after ten years,

I've gotta get around to updating my Broadside basses, even though I've yet to have a game where even if they were on their new base sizes that anything would have changed. In situations where it would with my bases being the size their at now, I'd just measure from where they should be.

As for bigger than normal bases, this guy I know put a terminator on a bike base "without knowing" until I pointed it out to him before a game. He even put his basing material (which was just some gel stuff, dude was a FREAK) on it before I said anything. I've caught him measuring from the tip of that base in situations where it would have benefited him.

 EccentricOwl wrote:
I ran into this at a 40k league/campaign event a while back.

I was using the standard 28mm bases, he had his Space Marines on 30mm bases. (The kind with a lip around the edge. You've probably seen them on Warmachine troop models.) In fact, all of his models were on lipped bases. (It wasn't a big deal for his terminators; although they were on the lipped bases, they were still the standard 40mm base size. And of course, the larger stuff like bikes and vehicles weren't an issue. )

I had no problem with it whatsoever; he was a pretty jovial player and his army was fantastically painted... but I wanted to know how you felt. (I have a lot of Warmachine models that I am on occasion tempted to use in 40k these days.) Does it make a big gameplay difference? I know it's technically against the rules so it probably wouldn't fly in a tournament, but would you take issue? If you were a tournament organizer, what would you tell the player?

In a regular game maybe but not a tournament, the more surface area his figures cover then he can exploit close combat with his stronger models perhaps, and the rule of measuring is base to base for shooting right?

So yes to a regular fun game, and I would be curious and see how it effected the game, yet no to a tournament. I agree with an earlier comment, to avoid endless butthurt.at the tournament, well spoken statement because that's what it would be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would not allow it in a league or campaign events because I feel that would cause even more severe butthurt... campaigns are fun and semi serious because usually everyone is vested into them like a tournament and there are decent prizes.

NO to anything but a a friendly game, maybe not even in a painting contest, lets face it, some bases look sharper with those rounded edges and generally a painting contest applies the general rule of a playable model. Thus an incorrect base makes it unusable.

 Kelly502 wrote:
In a regular game maybe but not a tournament, the more surface area his figures cover then he can exploit close combat with his stronger models perhaps, and the rule of measuring is base to base for shooting right?

Yeah, basically a bigger base lets you move and shoot farther.

I'd be really iffy about the bases being used in a tournament. (In the situation you mentioned.) It's not a hard 'no,' but it's really suspicious. If they agreed to treat their bases as standard size in the event of any dispute about base size, I'd be fine with it. If they wouldn't agree to that, then they've pretty much outed themselves as trying to pull a fast one.

 Brother SRM wrote:
I generally feel if you're going to be anal about a few millimeters of base size, you're playing the wrong game.

Agree with this 100%.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:
In a regular game maybe but not a tournament, the more surface area his figures cover then he can exploit close combat with his stronger models perhaps, and the rule of measuring is base to base for shooting right?

Yeah, basically a bigger base lets you move and shoot farther.

A bigger base may let you do this in turn 1 (depending on deployment... for example if you are somehow deployed against the back edge of the board) but generally no it does not let you move or shoot further since you are always measuring from the same point when you move and shoot.

Really i think it just depends on the situation like a GT where prizes are involved would be the only time i wouldn't allow it.

Any other time who cares.

So lets say you paid into the tournament, $25, prizes are 1st 2nd and 3rd. Not just trophies but models and or gift cards to spend on GW stuff. Just for instance... Plus you travel an hour to get to it, spend the entire day there, buy two meals and dude ends up winning a table quarter winning the game becasue his troops, and HQ could move a tad farther and tie up more of your models in hand to hand. MM's maybe, but still and edge to victory for him right?

Bigger bases would also mean you'd get less of them under a template.

But really unless I thought they were using the bases to cheat I wouldn't care. It's not as if it's a balanced game to begin with, and there are plenty of legal ways to give yourself an advantage.

I've no problem with it. I actually have 5 Lootas on 25mm square bases, Because I got them secondhand. I stuffed them with basing to make them a bit more round. But templates and charging haven't missed yet from the 2.5 mm difference.

Well. if he had a 24" base the i would cry foul, but only 2mm difference not an issue

 Kelly502 wrote:
So lets say you paid into the tournament, $25, prizes are 1st 2nd and 3rd. Not just trophies but models and or gift cards to spend on GW stuff. Just for instance... Plus you travel an hour to get to it, spend the entire day there, buy two meals and dude ends up winning a table quarter winning the game becasue his troops, and HQ could move a tad farther and tie up more of your models in hand to hand. MM's maybe, but still and edge to victory for him right?

This is why big money prizes are bad news. The game simply isn't tight enough to be ultimately fair as a competition for big prizes. Even chess is slightly unbalanced, and they deal with that by running a whole series of matches.

I love those lipped round bases, If I could I would re-base my entire Imperial fist collection, but there are some issues that come up as mentioned above like template weapons etc that always stop me, even though I only play casually. I wish GW had gone with those base types originally, I've got a couple of display marines on them and they look just that bit nicer I think.

Ive got no problem with it.
As someone whom still has old metal and plastic termies on the original bases it would be stupid if i was.
Provided it dosnt give them a significant advantage (someone mentioned this with Azreal and his bubble earlier) and it looks good then im all systems nomnomnominal

 Brother SRM wrote:
I generally feel if you're going to be anal about a few millimeters of base size, you're playing the wrong game.

Kind of this.

There's some games where it matters - WM/H for example, base size is critical in certain situations (say, like whether armor piercing is awesome, or completely sucks).

In 40k, i'd have no issues playing against old school terms on 25 mm bases, or if someone popped terms on the new 50mm centurion base and had them all modeled up cool.

Sure if someone put Azrael (as another poster used as an example) on a monstrous creature oval base, i'd raise an eyebrow, but if it's +/- one size in either direction, frankly i probably wouldn't care.

Simple... No problem in a casual/friendly game. Problem if in a tournament or campaign. When money, trophies, prizes etc. are involved you have to make everyone use the game's exact rules.

It is so difficult because you cannot just say "yes" or "no" only "it depends".

Bad for Opponent:

Templates are a set size, base size decides how many fit under the template, bigger = less models.

Area or table edge covered, marines, not a big deal, Orks, surface area may have dramatically increased.

Bad for You:

Fitting everyone in the top of a bastion or a narrow terrain feature may not work.

Not fitting the models to the base provided goes against RAW so some players will not like it or tournament play may not allow.

Trying to get models to deploy within range of an vehicle exit point may get challenging.

Not sure which way:

A larger base may get more models in base contact in melee. Larger bases for say Orks more in a 30 man blob may not make it into range. Horde: smaller bases = more attacks.

I personally want the bases as were provided just to avoid any issues and why pass up on what you have and go find different ones? Seems too much like work.

Sidstyler wrote:
Yeah, basically a bigger base lets you move and shoot farther.

Not really. Bigger base only let's you move further in games where you measure front to back. In 40k you measure front to front, so you don't gain any advantage in movement or shooting. The only advantages I see are you get 1.5mm more away from the midpoint of your leader for coherency. Seems that larger bases are actually a disadvantage with things like disembarkment, deep striking, and when a blast scatters, bigger bases means figs are more likely to still be in the blast. Lots of "six of one, half dozen of the other" situations when looking at smaller vs larger bases.

EccentricOwl wrote:I ran into this at a 40k league/campaign event a while back.

I was using the standard 28mm bases.....Does it make a big gameplay difference? I know it's technically against the rules so it probably wouldn't fly in a tournament, but would you take issue? If you were a tournament organizer, what would you tell the player?

Where did you find 28mm bases? Just kidding, I'm sure you meant 25mm.

As for gameplay, it doesn't make a huge difference in most games. That said, if I was a tournament organizer I might bring it up, but only if I knew local gamers were sensitive to that kind of thing.

warhamster77 wrote:@ MAsterslowpoke. I haven't re-based any of my models as they are on the base they came on 20+years ago. Just because GW decided to go with 40mm bases for termies, or 60mm base on my Wraithlords verses the square bases they came with. I still base my IG heavy weapons the same way that they used to come, on 25mm bases. I have yet to see a rule in the BRB that state that I have to change my base size on any of my 11 armies to make them "legal"

Not that it matters now that GW is mostly out of the Tournament scene, but they always said you could use the current base size or the base it came with when purchased. To their credit, that seemed like a nice compromise. Compromise being something GW isn't aways known for.

Ive got a batch of old metal termies and I haven't decided what bases to put them on. 40mm bases just dwarf those old smaller figures.

Sometimes I see people put flesh hounds on biker/cav bases, other times I see flesh hounds on beast/tda bases.
Either way, I have never heard, read, or seen it make any sort of difference in gameplay. Maybe, maaybe, the biker bases can get more into base to base contact, but they also could not have the 3rd row attack the model.
As long as the big bases are not shrinking, and the custom bases for models like Canis wolfborn (extra attack for ever model in B2B) are not huge I am OK with it.


Old termis is the only time this might come up and agitate me a little. It would have to be like, an entire tda army of them, and the player would have to be snide about it.