Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

CSM Librarians, save Tigurius, cannot take Divination, which is one of the most useful Psychic disciplines.

But, you can ally in a Dark Angels Libby, same cost, and for troops you can spend a cheap 70 or so points or scouts, or a tactical squad that is essentially the same as a CSM one.

( Yes, someone could say GW was being devious, to make people spend money on getting the DA book to ally with).

So, yeah, there is a troop tax, but you can always turn this into something useful, even if its just an outflanking scout squad to grab objectives.

Even better, but more expensive, you can ally with Space Wolves and take 2 Runepriests for Divvy fun, and a GH squad which is still aces.

Bad game design guys....if players want Divvy, they'll find minimal ways to get it in their army.

Not to mention DA have some cool wargear like portable field generators and infravisors etc...Its almost a no brainer.

It's almost like . . . *gasp* . . . GW wants different armies to play differently?!?

If you want to ally your army with other armies just to get access to some rules you like, you are the one with a problem. Not GW.

Speaking as a Librarians-heavy marines player, who was dreading being one of the last codexes to be forced down the road of the random powers I loathe so much, I was THRILLED with the new codex. Not only did our librarians get a substantial cost reduction, but they also get access to freaking Telepathy! I would rather take telepathy over divination any day of the week.

And if you really want the divination that badly, then by all means take the allies to get it. That's not a flaw, it's a feature. That's the exact sort of mixing and matching that allies rules are intended for.

Well, look at it like this: You are arguing that since you can ally anything in, the codex might as well just have it standard.
By that logic they should have added Riptides to the Codex, because, yeah, you could ally them in for minimal additional costs.

As someone who is a dark angel player (although as just a side project, chaos is my main army), I am glad that they decided to give the Dark Angels something to make them different from the other marine variants.
If Codex Space Marines had access to everything that the Dark Angels had... What would be the point of having the Dark Angels codex in the first place. They already rolled Black Templars into C:SM.
We should keep something to draw players into the Dark Angels codex as I am sure many players are already switching to codex Space Marines with the White Scars chapter tactics. Whoever they are... they are the fallen, and they shall be dealt with accordingly.

take this post with a grain of salt... I have been drinking, and I am also a filthy heretic who plays CSM and daemons

Oh I agree DA should be different. I'm just pointing out that if they wanted CSM to be different, they made it really easy to not be so. Might as well have given them the power...to be honest of the 5 Marine books, CSM are the one who need that power the most. Don't know why BA or SW get access to it.


Riptides are not marine units so I fail to see the connection.

Honestly Chaos should have gotten a similar rule to chapter tactics for each legion... I can only hope that they expand on each legion in a supplement.

General Hobbs wrote:


Oh I agree DA should be different. I'm just pointing out that if they wanted CSM to be different, they made it really easy to not be so. Might as well have given them the power...to be honest of the 5 Marine books, CSM are the one who need that power the most. Don't know why BA or SW get access to it.


Riptides are not marine units so I fail to see the connection.

C:SM. The colon is important.

General Hobbs wrote:
Oh I agree DA should be different. I'm just pointing out that if they wanted CSM to be different, they made it really easy to not be so. Might as well have given them the power...to be honest of the 5 Marine books, CSM are the one who need that power the most. Don't know why BA or SW get access to it.

Because Divination is a power that is 'special' to the BA-lore.
Sanguinius could see in the future, Corbulo can look in the future. It's in there gene-pool

Riptides are not marine units so I fail to see the connection.

Because of the "might as well have given them the power" since it's so easy to ally them in.
I can also easily ally in Death Company, Furioso Dreadnoughts, etc, etc. That doesn't mean they 'might as well have given them the units'.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
The colon is important.

I think a proctologist would agree with you.

More on topic I fail to see why every book with similiar factions needs to be carbon copies of each other. The differences between C:SM and DA are good for the game because they make things more interesting than just making one book basically like the other. The more divergent the different Marine books get, the better.

Well: I am a dark angels player. And I'm Happy with how things turned out with the new vanilla marine codex. Our best new toys didn't just get rolled up into the new C:SM dex.

Sure I wouldn't mind having access to the Hunter/Stalker, but grav weapons, and centurions I don't care about.

Divination isn't essential to winning, you know.

General Hobbs wrote:


Divination

When I looked this up in the dictionary, I found the following:

Crutch for the weak
Gimmick
WAAC player indicator


Real men take telepathy and make it so you can't even play.

My BA sometimes rock the codex powers. Divination is good, but telepathy honestly has more payoff. Think about puppetmaster on a Grav cannon cent.

 juraigamer wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


Divination

When I looked this up in the dictionary, I found the following:

Crutch for the weak
Gimmick
WAAC player indicator


Real men take telepathy and make it so you can't even play.

I love internet tough guys who hide behind their computer screens.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sing your life wrote:
Divination isn't essential to winning, you know.

I know, but it is a good power and no reason to not include it in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:
Oh I agree DA should be different. I'm just pointing out that if they wanted CSM to be different, they made it really easy to not be so. Might as well have given them the power...to be honest of the 5 Marine books, CSM are the one who need that power the most. Don't know why BA or SW get access to it.

Because Divination is a power that is 'special' to the BA-lore.
Sanguinius could see in the future, Corbulo can look in the future. It's in there gene-pool

Riptides are not marine units so I fail to see the connection.

Because of the "might as well have given them the power" since it's so easy to ally them in.
I can also easily ally in Death Company, Furioso Dreadnoughts, etc, etc. That doesn't mean they 'might as well have given them the units'.

And it is totally irrelevant to the argument. There is very little difference between a barebones DA librarian and a C:SM one. There is nothing equivalent to a Riptide, Death Company, Furioso etc in C;SM.

General Hobbs wrote:
I know, but it is a good power and no reason to not include it in.

Actually a reason has been pointed out: codex differentiation. GW has been making the various Marine books more and more divergent for a while now and this is just them taking that a little further still.

Besides, if I recall correctly, Codex: Space Marines couldn't take Divination back at the start of 6th, so isn't it a little late to be raising this as a complaint now?

I... I don't have the words. OP clearly must be 12. Makes thread, attacks anyone with different opinion, in a stupid way.

Not giving SM access to divination wasn't a mistake, it was planned. If you wanna re-roll to hit, choose your chapter tactics wisely, or cry.

And you are correct zion, SM never could take divination, even after the 6th ed hit. Some kids will raise a tantrum over anything.

Martel732 wrote:
My BA sometimes rock the codex powers. Divination is good, but telepathy honestly has more payoff. Think about puppetmaster on a Grav cannon cent.

The best puppet master target, by far, is the Skyray. Soooo funny.

The primary problem with telepathy was the requirement for a level 2 psyker. That is now not a problem. This makes telepahty just as legit as divination, imo. Why reroll hits when I just make people's heads explode, no armor saves?

I don't think C:SM lacking Divination is in any way a bad thing. If you DEMAND to play with Divination you can always ally or play your army as Dark Angels. C:SM has a named Libby that can do whatever he wants anyway. Even if you don't play blue, you can always ally with them. It's not like you weren't taking Tactical Squads anyway...