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Looking to expand my Dark Angels successor / will later become C:SM down the road (since da got on their codex minus a few niche units again & no decent fliers / AA) .... I've got the basis for what i'm looking for but before I expand I want to read up and make sure. Since it's a custom chapter I'll be able to magnetize / modular everything to swap between both armies fairly easy, so guess i'm just looking for some solid tactica / advice / breps to get familiar with them (already done this but wanting to see if I overlooked anything that was really good)

Thanks

Step 1. Take White Scars CT.
Step 2. Take lots of Bikes.
Step 3. Take Grav Guns on half of the squads.
Step 4. Take TFCs.
Step 5. Profit.

Anti-air?

Storm talons

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Step 1. Take White Scars CT.
Step 2. Take lots of Bikes.
Step 3. Take Grav Guns on half of the squads.
Step 4. Take TFCs.
Step 5. Profit.

What happens to this list if there happens to be a couple of C'Tan on the table, out of curiosity?

Half of your squads have grav, I'm assuming the other half may have melta/plasma, which would then be the answer.

Or shoot the ever living crap out of them with w/e, charge, hit&run out on their turn, rinse and repeat.

 Jimsolo wrote:
What happens to this list if there happens to be a couple of C'Tan on the table, out of curiosity?

Not sure. If I ever see a few C'Tan on the table I'll let you know.

I'm rather hard pressed to remember the last time I've seen one. Its been at least 3 years.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Step 1. Take White Scars CT.
Step 2. Take lots of Bikes.
Step 3. Take Grav Guns on half of the squads.
Step 4. Take TFCs.
Step 5. Profit.

What happens to this list if there happens to be a couple of C'Tan on the table, out of curiosity?

What list? I don't see a list anywhere, just a generalisation as to how to make the bones of a decent Bike army. However as labmouse said, using C'Tan is a bad example as you never see those.

Lol, my most frequent opponent fields 1-2 of them. I was just curious, as the 'generalized army' listed above would have a difficult time with the C'Tan, since every weapon it appears that army would have would need a 6+ to wound the C'Tan. If it had the Difficult Terrain power, it could really rock their socks.

White scars ignore dangerous terrain

 Jimsolo wrote:
Lol, my most frequent opponent fields 1-2 of them. I was just curious, as the 'generalized army' listed above would have a difficult time with the C'Tan, since every weapon it appears that army would have would need a 6+ to wound the C'Tan. If it had the Difficult Terrain power, it could really rock their socks.

You are using an entire army of bikes. C'tan Shards are snails unless teleported from a deep-striking Monolith. Do the maths.

Tongue in cheek by the way! Anyway, just an FYI, C'tan are really slow, and they rarely do much damage if they have shooting attacks. Your opponent is spending a bare minimum 425 points, again, bare minimum on two plodding monstrous creatures that aren't even that scary up close. Ignore them and destroy the rest of his significantly weakened army list, which an all-bike army can do incredibly easily. Otherwise, C'tan Shards abhor massed shooting. When there's nothing else left in the Necron army, just mash them with as many shots as you can. You'll find that C'tan drop easily once you start forcing a lot of saves on them. The trick is to not waste lascannons and their ilk on them; on the other hand, Tau Crisis Teams with missile pods eat them for breakfast.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Lol, my most frequent opponent fields 1-2 of them. I was just curious, as the 'generalized army' listed above would have a difficult time with the C'Tan, since every weapon it appears that army would have would need a 6+ to wound the C'Tan. If it had the Difficult Terrain power, it could really rock their socks.

My Necron book says the C'Tan have a 4+ armour as well as an invul., so not sure why you think 6's.

And as has been stated, White Scars are immune to Terrain, and C'Tan are really slow. I'd like to add that T7 is great but having only W4 and a 4+ save means the C'Tan isn't that sturdy at all.

The thing I don't get is most people think that a C:SM bike army only has bikes.

You know that 6 squads of 5 bikes w/2 grav-plas each are only 810 points. That still leaves quite a few points for the rest of your army.

 labmouse42 wrote:
The thing I don't get is most people think that a C:SM bike army only has bikes.

You know that 6 squads of 5 bikes w/2 grav-plas each are only 810 points. That still leaves quite a few points for the rest of your army.

I would never take 6 squads of Bikes though. With objectives placement it is way too easy to force a draw on that army.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
The thing I don't get is most people think that a C:SM bike army only has bikes.

You know that 6 squads of 5 bikes w/2 grav-plas each are only 810 points. That still leaves quite a few points for the rest of your army.

I would never take 6 squads of Bikes though. With objectives placement it is way too easy to force a draw on that army.

How is that? They are, like, the third most agile scoring unit (after Eldar Jetbikes and Necron Scythe Warriors/Immortals) in the game... If you can force out a draw against them, then you can do the same against Tactical and Scouts too, so the Bikes have no disadvantage. Unless I miss something important here...

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

 labmouse42 wrote:
The thing I don't get is most people think that a C:SM bike army only has bikes.

You know that 6 squads of 5 bikes w/2 grav-plas each are only 810 points. That still leaves quite a few points for the rest of your army.

I would never take 6 squads of Bikes though. With objectives placement it is way too easy to force a draw on that army.

How is that? They are, like, the third most agile scoring unit (after Eldar Jetbikes and Necron Scythe Warriors/Immortals) in the game... If you can force out a draw against them, then you can do the same against Tactical and Scouts too, so the Bikes have no disadvantage. Unless I miss something important here...

You can place objectives in second floor terrain, and bikes will never ever reach them.

Hes probably thinking about putting objectives on high levels of ruins where bikes cannot reach.

That used to be a big problem. Now you can just take allies for 2 extra squads of either scouts in a LSS or marines in a drop pod to handle those problems.

DakotaBlue wrote:

You can place objectives in second floor terrain, and bikes will never ever reach them.

So? Unless you are a complete moron and place your own objectives on the second floor of buildings so your bikes can't reach them, you shouldn't have a problem. it is not like you can place objective only on the second floor of a building... Or all battlefields consist only buildings with 2+ floors... You can't even realistically fit multiple objectives on the same second floor, as they should be 12" apart...

 AtoMaki wrote:
So? Unless you are a complete moron and place your own objectives on the second floor of buildings so your bikes can't reach them, you shouldn't have a problem. it is not like you can place objective only on the second floor of a building... Or all battlefields consist only buildings with 2+ floors... You can't even realistically fit multiple objectives on the same second floor, as they should be 12" apart...

If you could control where your opponent puts his objectives it would not be a problem.

In many tourney events I've been to, there are 2 ruins in a deployment zone. I've had more than one opponent look at my bike army (back in 5th edition) and put 2 objectives on the 2nd or 3rd floors of ruins.

Its a hassle to deal with, but its not a show-stopper, especially now that you can have allies.

so you take some 5man sternguards with 2 heavy flamers and burn what ever unit is camping that 2nd floor objective. and why Gravguns on only half? if your playing in the area of spam MC/Waveserpents you need a good portion of gravguns to bring it all down. your MM attack bikes can handle any av 14 that shows. Plasma rifles are kind of pointless now 1 str 7 ap 2 shot at 24" vs 3 shots at 18" with wound agianst your armor save and ap 2.

One lesser considered option is the placement of objectives so as to deny your opponent ruins. Remember that objectives can't be within 12" of each other - if you put one of your objectives on the ground floor, but within 12" of the upper levels of a ruin, your opponent can't then use that for his placement.

I've often done this, and put one of my objectives in a cluster of ruins, denying them all to the enemy for objective placement.

 AtoMaki wrote:

DakotaBlue wrote:

You can place objectives in second floor terrain, and bikes will never ever reach them.

So? Unless you are a complete moron and place your own objectives on the second floor of buildings so your bikes can't reach them, you shouldn't have a problem. it is not like you can place objective only on the second floor of a building... Or all battlefields consist only buildings with 2+ floors... You can't even realistically fit multiple objectives on the same second floor, as they should be 12" apart...

In tournament and competitive play with appropriate amounts of terrain there is usually enough multi-level ruins to at least make it tough on an all Bike army. All an opponent has to do if they have a few ruins on their side of the board is deploy their objectives up a level or two and they have put you at a disadvantage, as your scoring units can only take a few of the objectives while theirs are not so restricted; simple fact is if there is even only one or two objectives that your army can't reach then you are in an uphill struggle at some degree. They don't even need to do it with all of their objectives, and sure it won't happen all of the time, but it is highly possible and something armies should be prepared for in my opinion; too often people forget that how your opponent plays their game is just as important as how you play yours.

 Hedgehog wrote:
One lesser considered option is the placement of objectives so as to deny your opponent ruins. Remember that objectives can't be within 12" of each other - if you put one of your objectives on the ground floor, but within 12" of the upper levels of a ruin, your opponent can't then use that for his placement.

I've often done this, and put one of my objectives in a cluster of ruins, denying them all to the enemy for objective placement.

That is brilliant.

Or take 3 squads of troop bikes and 3 squads of FA bikes, season with LSS scouts and/or tacticals to taste.

Bike squads of at least 5 models "may" be taken as troops in a detachment that contains a captain/chapter master on bike.

White Scars do make for a nasty bike army. Give some of them grav weapons, and the rest whatever combination of plas/melta/flamer strikes your fancy, and then outflank and murder.

A good mix of grav/plas/flame/melt should allow you to kill pretty much anything. I'm partial to grav and plas personally, because I like to have a solid amount of anti-MC/light vehicle/elite infantry around for when you run afoul of that triptide list, but it's up to you. I supplement my horde killing ability with IF, by making WS allies to an IF primary detachment and taking two sternguard squads (along with those tasty devs and an ADL). It's not a pure bike army, but it gets the job done.