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Anyone?

Im getting very confused about this lol
Im hearing things about using Iron Arm, and attacking back armor with something...

But my confusion is about Vector Strike.. I thought it was unmodified str hits? =/ someone give me the rundown! >.<

DP of Slaanesh can get the Lash (2d6 S6 ranged attack) as a default greater reward. The general concept is to fly in behind a flyer and lash the piss out of the rear armour (which is typically 12 or less).

Chaos Daemon Princes of Slaanesh (not Chaos Space Marine ones) can purchase whip that is a shooting attack which uses the users strength with non-weapon modifiers.

Also, the whip is 2D6 hits... so there is a good chance of destroying a flier in a single turn if you roll enough shots.

Thing is, though, you also have to purchase wings so that BS matters.

You basically fly over the flyer, vector strike because you can, and then shoot them in the butt(because MCs have 360 LoS) with the Whip.

Its not going to matter against Stormravens(AV12 all around) but all the other flyers have weaker rear armor.

Average number of 7 hits at str6 will get you 2.333 pens and 1.16 glances against armor 10. Which will kill just through hull point loss unless they Jink.

 Grey Templar wrote:
You basically fly over the flyer, vector strike because you can, and then shoot them in the butt(because MCs have 360 LoS) with the Whip.

Its not going to matter against Stormravens(AV12 all around) but all the other flyers have weaker rear armor.

Average number of 7 hits at str6 will get you 2.333 pens and 1.16 glances against armor 10. Which will kill just through hull point loss unless they Jink.

And Daemon of Slaanesh means those shots are rending, so you'll like get at least 1 or 2 penetrating hits.

Rending would only really matter against the Stormravens rear because str6 is going to pen armor 10 on a 6 anyway.

Fun fact: str6 will only be able to pen armor12, it can never glance it(unless its that stupid Serpent Shield)

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
You basically fly over the flyer, vector strike because you can, and then shoot them in the butt(because MCs have 360 LoS) with the Whip.

Its not going to matter against Stormravens(AV12 all around) but all the other flyers have weaker rear armor.

Average number of 7 hits at str6 will get you 2.333 pens and 1.16 glances against armor 10. Which will kill just through hull point loss unless they Jink.

And Daemon of Slaanesh means those shots are rending, so you'll like get at least 1 or 2 penetrating hits.

Does not give ranged weapons rending, only gives the Daemon itself rending, as the weapon itself does not have rending (Big YMDC about this with the Soul Grinders weapon)

Also, the whip isn't str: 6, it's str: user. Big difference (one isn't affected by iron arm, one is)

Otherwise I'd give whips to my heralds!

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
You basically fly over the flyer, vector strike because you can, and then shoot them in the butt(because MCs have 360 LoS) with the Whip.

Its not going to matter against Stormravens(AV12 all around) but all the other flyers have weaker rear armor.

Average number of 7 hits at str6 will get you 2.333 pens and 1.16 glances against armor 10. Which will kill just through hull point loss unless they Jink.

And Daemon of Slaanesh means those shots are rending, so you'll like get at least 1 or 2 penetrating hits.

Does not give ranged weapons rending, only gives the Daemon itself rending, as the weapon itself does not have rending (Big YMDC about this with the Soul Grinders weapon)

By this, does it mean that any Slanesh Daemon with a weapon such as an Etherblade not benefit from Rending?

GoliothOnline wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
You basically fly over the flyer, vector strike because you can, and then shoot them in the butt(because MCs have 360 LoS) with the Whip.

Its not going to matter against Stormravens(AV12 all around) but all the other flyers have weaker rear armor.

Average number of 7 hits at str6 will get you 2.333 pens and 1.16 glances against armor 10. Which will kill just through hull point loss unless they Jink.

And Daemon of Slaanesh means those shots are rending, so you'll like get at least 1 or 2 penetrating hits.

Does not give ranged weapons rending, only gives the Daemon itself rending, as the weapon itself does not have rending (Big YMDC about this with the Soul Grinders weapon)

By this, does it mean that any Slanesh Daemon with a weapon such as an Etherblade not benefit from Rending?

The rule itself specifically refers to Melee Combat, it will still have rending as the model itself has rending. The shooting part of rending refers only to the Weapon itself needing to have rending or else it does not rend.

I believe the rule is intended to apply to shooting attacks (in this case), so in like six months we may get an FAQ, lol.

But for now, strict RAW, it doesn't have rending

Well, the model itself has rending.. weather or not it is a shooting attack or not shouldn't affect it's ability to cause rending hits...

That being said, the melee portion of the Rending special rules state specifically that as long as the model has Rending, to wounds rolls of 6 are Rending following the automatic wounding of the model being attacked, at AP2... The shooting portion simply says that similarly making a shooting attack with a weapon results in the same effect, however what weapons are we talking about? The Lash is a weapon that follows the users STR. The model itself has Rending.. Where do we go from there? lol (This DOES need to be FAQ'd but I doubt anyone would argue with another player over a tabletop game where they cannot find a specific instance that a model with X doesn't have X in 1 circumstance...)

GoliothOnline wrote:


Ok no, thats where you made the mistake, read up on Rending in the BRB PG41 for quick reference

"If a model has the Rending special rule,
or is attacking with a Melee weapon that
has the Rending special rule, there is a
chance that his close combat attacks will
strike a critical blow. For each To wound
roll of a 6, the target automatically
suffers a wound, regardless of his
Toughness. These Wounds are resolved
at AP 2."

as you can see, the rule specifically states that if you have a model with the rule, his attacks have the rule as well, regardless of it being melee or shooting.. it goes on to state that if the model doesnt have the rule, but the weapon DOES, apply as seen.. The shooting portion is the exact same and reads out the same as well.

It specifically says close combat attacks if the model has the special rule. Please cite where that extends to shooting attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though it appears you deleted your post while I was responding, so you may have realized your error.

 Happyjew wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:


Ok no, thats where you made the mistake, read up on Rending in the BRB PG41 for quick reference

"If a model has the Rending special rule,
or is attacking with a Melee weapon that
has the Rending special rule, there is a
chance that his close combat attacks will
strike a critical blow. For each To wound
roll of a 6, the target automatically
suffers a wound, regardless of his
Toughness. These Wounds are resolved
at AP 2."

as you can see, the rule specifically states that if you have a model with the rule, his attacks have the rule as well, regardless of it being melee or shooting.. it goes on to state that if the model doesnt have the rule, but the weapon DOES, apply as seen.. The shooting portion is the exact same and reads out the same as well.

It specifically says close combat attacks if the model has the special rule. Please cite where that extends to shooting attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though it appears you deleted your post while I was responding, so you may have realized your error.

No I just dont want to argue about silly things, the shooting portion is right under the first paragraph where the melee portion is "semi-cited"

 Happyjew wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:


Ok no, thats where you made the mistake, read up on Rending in the BRB PG41 for quick reference

"If a model has the Rending special rule,
or is attacking with a Melee weapon that
has the Rending special rule, there is a
chance that his close combat attacks will
strike a critical blow. For each To wound
roll of a 6, the target automatically
suffers a wound, regardless of his
Toughness. These Wounds are resolved
at AP 2."

as you can see, the rule specifically states that if you have a model with the rule, his attacks have the rule as well, regardless of it being melee or shooting.. it goes on to state that if the model doesnt have the rule, but the weapon DOES, apply as seen.. The shooting portion is the exact same and reads out the same as well.

It specifically says close combat attacks if the model has the special rule. Please cite where that extends to shooting attacks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though it appears you deleted your post while I was responding, so you may have realized your error.

Because that's not ALL the rule.

Similarly, if a model makes a shooting attack with a weapon that has the Rending special rule.

Specifically cited as weapon.

So explain this to me then,

By the logic provided, how does one interpret this ;

In either case, against vehicles, each
armour penetration roll of 6 allows a
further D3 to be rolled, with the result
added to the total.

Now, this portion of the rules doesn't specify which method of attacking is supposed to use THIS portion of the rule...

So how do you determine which?

If the model has rending, then doesn't "Armor penetration rolls of 6" mean any and all in general caused by the model..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I know I'm being a dick with this, but honestly, the way we interpret the rules varies from person to person... weather or not you have rending on the model itself, or a ranged weapon, means nothing as far as I'm concerned, simply being that rolling a 6 on a vehicle because your models has the Rending special rule, means you roll a D3 and add to the result.

Seems to have spiralled into a rules discussion, so moving to YMDC rather than Tactics.

GoliothOnline wrote:
So explain this to me then,

By the logic provided, how does one interpret this ;

In either case, against vehicles, each
armour penetration roll of 6 allows a
further D3 to be rolled, with the result
added to the total.

Now, this portion of the rules doesn't specify which method of attacking is supposed to use THIS portion of the rule...

So how do you determine which?

"In either case"
That would be a close combat attack with Rending...
Or a Shooting attack with Rending.

The thing is, a model with rending does not grant rending to shooting attacks.
So only close combat attack would benefit.

A shooting attack without rending, doesn't gain the benefit of rending.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Chaos Daemon Princes of Slaanesh (not Chaos Space Marine ones) can purchase whip that is a shooting attack which uses the users strength with non-weapon modifiers.

Also, the whip is 2D6 hits... so there is a good chance of destroying a flier in a single turn if you roll enough shots.

Thing is, though, you also have to purchase wings so that BS matters.

Just to clarify(because my immediate reaction was a big fat NOO!!); the lash has 2d6 attacks, not hits.

I think the fact that the weapon in question is a lash is causing the confusion. Substitute it with a bolter, and it makes much less sense to make it rending because a beefy Daemon Prince is using it. I say nay to the Lash rending.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Chaos Daemon Princes of Slaanesh (not Chaos Space Marine ones) can purchase whip that is a shooting attack which uses the users strength with non-weapon modifiers.

Also, the whip is 2D6 hits... so there is a good chance of destroying a flier in a single turn if you roll enough shots.

Thing is, though, you also have to purchase wings so that BS matters.

Just to clarify(because my immediate reaction was a big fat NOO!!); the lash has 2d6 attacks, not hits.

Ah, thanks for picking that up, yes, I meant shots, not hits. You need to roll to ht as normal

EDIT: Wow my brain must be in the midst of committing suicide...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
...i meant hits, not hits.

Hmm. Still needs work.

Wow... how the hell did I manage that?

Didn't expect that...

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Chaos Daemon Princes of Slaanesh (not Chaos Space Marine ones) can purchase whip that is a shooting attack which uses the users strength with non-weapon modifiers.

Also, the whip is 2D6 hits... so there is a good chance of destroying a flier in a single turn if you roll enough shots.

Thing is, though, you also have to purchase wings so that BS matters.

Just to clarify(because my immediate reaction was a big fat NOO!!); the lash has 2d6 attacks, not hits.

Can someone site a page reference that allows FMC's to fire at other fliers with skyfire? I can only seem to find it in reference to fliers being given that option. If FMC's cannot, I don't see how Slaanesh DPs are any better at shooting at other fliers.

Toxium wrote:
Can someone site a page reference that allows FMC's to fire at other fliers with skyfire? I can only seem to find it in reference to fliers being given that option. If FMC's cannot, I don't see how Slaanesh DPs are any better at shooting at other fliers.

It's in the BRB FAQ i believe.

 grendel083 wrote:

Toxium wrote:
Can someone site a page reference that allows FMC's to fire at other fliers with skyfire? I can only seem to find it in reference to fliers being given that option. If FMC's cannot, I don't see how Slaanesh DPs are any better at shooting at other fliers.

It's in the BRB FAQ i believe.

Ah, found it. Pg.6 of the Sept.13-FAQ if anyone is interested.

Thanks grendel