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Hey guys,

Looking to have a casual list that can hold it's own against whatever may show up. I realize I will likely have issues with highly specialized opponents but that's ok. Let me know what you think and if there are obvious gaps I'm missing.

HQ - 150
Chapter Master in Artificer Armor - 150

Troops - 661
Tactical Squad (8) with flamer and rhino - 152
Tactical Squad (8) with flamer and rhino - 152
Tactical Squad (8) with flamer and drop pod - 152
Scout Squad (5) with Telion and snipers and camo cloaks deployed in an Aegis DL wi Icarus Lascannon - 205

Elite - 650
Sternguard (10) with 3 combi-plasma and 3 combi-melta and a drop pod - 325
Sternguard (10) with 3 combi-plasma and 3 combi-melta and a drop pod - 325

Heavy - 315
Predator with TL Lascannon and Lascannon Sponsons - 140
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Stalker - 75

Fast Attack - 180
Speeder Squadron (3) with heavy flamer and heavy flamer - 180

So the tactic is to alpha strike the two stern units to take out whatever is best across the table. The third drop with tac will dump right on an objective, the later the better. Speeders are there to thin horde armies some and slow down mech if need be. Yes I cheese Telion, I'm not ashamed of that.

I have 43 points left. I cant decide whether to upgrade one speeder to dual multi-meltas or upgrade some tac squads from flamers to plasma guns since the flamers are covered on the speeders.

I run homebrew so Chapter Tactics can be whatever.. I like Ravenguard for the scout move.

Thanks for looking and any feedback provided!

You could pimp your CM a bit so he has some bite in CC if needed. You could also use Pedro to make the sterns scoring.

Otherwise your list seems relatively balanced, just a bit lean on AA and AT.

Good thoughts! I have the points for Pedro. I do like bolter drill too. The only thing is the codex says it makes "crimson fist" sternguard scoring, does that apply to my Imperial Fist army if I go with Pedro?

No they have to be crimson fists. But just call the army crimson fists, they get bolter drill also, as well as tankhunter devs.

Maybe I'm missing something here so please bear with me. In the codex it shows Pedro as having CT "Imperial Fists". Its my understanding them means my army must be IF. So I cant claim Crimson Fists as well or I lose Pedro. Unless of course I do allies which ruins my whole list

Pedro CAN be used in an IF list, however he only grants scoring to crimson fist sternguard. So unless you have your crimson fist sternguard painted as such, or announce that your using your IF sternguard to represent crimson fist sternguard he will not grant them scoring.

I dunno, its dumb, they dident think it through well enough. Since they are the same rules, they don't count as allies, but their special bonuses only apply to their own army. If you used Lysander also in this list, he wouldn not grant his special rules to the crimson fist sternguard.

So after some pretty good CT advice I did a bit of a revamp:

Main Detachment -1280
CT: Salamanders
HQ - 345
Librarian in Terminator Armor with Storm Shield and teeth of terra, Epistolary with Vortex of Doom and Null Zone - 160
Command Squad with 5 combi-plasmas and a drop pod - 185

Troops - 570
Tactical Squad (10) with flamer and heavy flamer in a rhino - 190
Tactical Squad (10) with flamer and heavy flamer in a rhino - 190
Tactical Squad (10) with flamer and heavy flamer in a drop pod - 190

Heavy - 175
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Stalker - 75

Fast Attack - 190
Speeder Squadron (3) two with heavy flamer/heavy flamer, one with heavy flamer/multi-melta - 190


Allied Detachment - 410
CT: Imperial Fists
HQ - 345
Librarian in Terminator Armor with Storm Shield and teeth of terra, Epistolary with Vortex of Doom and Null Zone - 160
Command Squad with 5 combi-meltas and a drop pod - 185

Troop - 205
Scout Squad (5) with Telion and snipers and camo cloaks deployed in an Aegis DL wi Icarus Lascannon - 205

Heavy Support - 170
Devastator Squad with 4 Lascannons - 170

So the tactic is to alpha strike the two command units to take out whatever is best across the table. The third drop pod with tac will drop on an objective, the later the better. Speeders are there to thin horde armies some and slow down mech if need be. Mass flamers with reroll to-wound should be fun. Librarians will be solo, stomping around the field drawing fire and killing invuln saves and dropping Vortex of Death to feed the warp. Yes I cheese Telion, I'm not ashamed of that.

I took the Libs so i could have command squads instead of Sternguard. They're alpha strike suicide squads after all.. Shouldn't blow too many points on them. I do like the idea of the Libs though.. Just causing havoc all by themselves.

Thanks for looking and any feedback provided!

Okay, so here go a few problems you got with the list so far, hahah.
There's no longer Epistolaries, librarians are just upgraded to level two psykers now.
Also they don't have the option for those psychic powers anymore. You only get to choose from Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy.
The command squad is kind of crap if you ask me, they have their uses, but I just don't see them as being totally worth it unless you're running white scars. If anything, the Honour Guard is where it's at if you're looking for some hitters.

So this is just my personal take on this, But this is how I would probably re-write my list to kind of get the better of the worlds.

Chapter Tactics: Salamanders

HQ - 255
Chapter Master w/ Artificer Armor, The Shield Eternal, Storm Shield, Relic Blade, Grav Pistol

Troops
Tac Squad with Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Sgt. w/ Combi-Flamer in a Rhino
Tac Squad with Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Sgt. w/ Combi-Flamer in a Rhino

Both of these I would have combat squaded inside of the Rhino. So you can have all of your vital flamers in one batch and the rest of the squishy marines in the other. This makes your opponent have to target priortize what he is going for. Either 5 bolters or 2-3 bolters plus flamers. I think it works out great in my mind, this will need play testing.

I think your heavy and Fast attack looks great personally.

Allied detachment.
I love the Imperial Fists detachment, but you would want more from them in my opinion.
So I would do this.

Pedro Kantor
5 Sternguard w/ x2 melta x3 combi melta in a drop pod
5 scouts with sniper rifles (Sgt. Tellion is Ultra Marines only sadly.)
5 Space marines w/ Grav gun, grav pistol in a drop pod
5 Devastators w/ 4 lascannons

This whole detachment is only 735 points. And what I got for you up top is 1020 coming out to a whooping 1755 points. Now there is where you can start having fun. You can throw in say a StormTalon with sky hammer missle launchers or like an ironclad with dual heavy flamers in a drop pod to come in with your sterns or tacs, so then you can have more options on the drop pod assault. you can even try to shave points to get both. This codex just has so many viable options it's ridiculous, hah. I say stick with the salamander chapter tactics, play a few games and try a few things in and out and try to find out what you really want. I've built maybe 4 or 5 competitive builds out of this codex already. The only thing that is not really all that great is raven guard sadly. They're good, but not great. But yah, over time my young padawan, even you will find a way.

Thanks for the response!

In my mind Epistolary = lvl2. I'll break myself of that habit.
I honestly have no idea how the new psyker skills work. I spent time today looking in the codex and BRB and found nothing other than the disciplines they choose from. Maybe we can discuss this on the side or if you can point me to a page I'm overlooking.

I agree 100% that command is crap, that's why I take them. They are nothing more than combi weapon delivery systems. I can't use Honorguard as they don't have those weapon choices, sternguard are too expensive for my use of them. I find that they blow their load then die quickly. I see them as my anti-land raider or anti-2+ option. Maybe this is flawed thinking. The good news is I'm kitbashing them anyways so they can be whatever I call them.

I like your thoughts on having both flamers in one CS. I'll switch back and forth a bit to see how this plays out.

Telion!!!! You broke my heart - I totally forgot he was CT:Ultramarines only.

I'll definitely have to switch some things around. Keep in mind I'm not shooting for a competitive level at this point. While I don't want to lose every game I play, I don't foresee being in many tournaments for the time being. I'm kinda looking for a starting point for a fun army which salamanders REALLY seems to fit for me. That and I need to have some sort of idea on what models to buy in what order.. looks like 2 more speeders is up next then a couple drop pods. I have lots of infantry I can proxy in the mean time.

I do have a couple questions:
1) Is a stalker enough AA for 1999 points? With downgrading the scouts, I can afford a second.
2) Would I be better off just going with 1-2 stormravens and leaving out the stalkers all together? They are infinitely cooler and have more of an all-around benefit in my mind.
3) The way I read the book, units firing from firing points in a transport is a separate shooting phase than the transport itself. Can I flamer one unit and storm bolter a different one?

Even then, you can't put a unit in terminator armor inside of a drop pod. So I mean, it is viable, but the only good powers that you would find for your librarian would come out of Telepathy and Telekinesis. Depending on which route you would go. The reasoning behind the sternguard with Ol' Boy is for an extra scoring unit. Granted you have 4 on the table already, with as split up as you're going to be, eh. I can see your point though. But I wouldn't want to throw away that many points straight off the bat anyways. You should run at minimum 3 drop pods if you're going to be using any at all. This way you can pick and choose what units come in or out of play. So if there's a lot of interceptor, either place them to where it becomes ineffective or hold off a turn or two.

Hell, you can buy a drop pod for the devastators, leave them out of it, and deploy it empty if you must. Just different ways' to control how your forces come to the table.

The old 5th edition psyker powers from what I can tell are gone. There's nothing in the new codex. So they had gotten rid of them completely. Not to say in a supplement sometime down the road that certain librarians will have access to them. But that's not now.

Now for your questions.

1) One stalker is enough. Granted you come across an donkey-cave with 4 hell drakes, which doesn't seem that likely, you're fine. Even if the enemy doesn't have a flyer, you now have a vital AV12 wall protecting your rhinos' from their iminate demise.
2) Even though StormRavens are badass (I know, I have 3) they are an all around benefit, but now you're missing out on possibly 460 points out of game. But if your local store doesn't have true sixth edition terrain which is usually three story buildings (I'm working on some now), then to block those storm ravens will be tough. I've shot too many storm ravens and valkyries out of the sky as a Tau player. Granted that's just me. If you have the models, or some type of proxy, I say give them a shot. I like them. But again, a lot of it comes down to your play style. If you do decide to use a storm raven, I highly recommend the SkyTalon since he will come out the same time as the Storm Raven as an Escort and does provide a decent amount of firepower as well.

Tac Squads CANNOT have heavy flamers. Only Stergaurds and Legion of the Dammed.

note: tacticals cant take heavy flamers only sternguards can..

also comand squad is not that bad... just give them all chainswords and you have 4x5 = 20 attcks AP5 on the charge and 3+ save and 5+ feel no pain...now if you attach them your commander they are becoming a real deal of pain..

My life is a lie. I saw the fine print and must have selectively read around it. Well back to the drawing board. I read in the "you make da call" that CT doesnt work for vehicles. Is it right that Salamanders reroll wounds wouldnt work for my Speeders with heavy flamers?

Edit: I see.. They dont have CT special rule so it doesnt apply. To dreadnougts either.. Well Salamanders lost the punch i thought they had..

Im 99 percent sure Pedro sternguard are scoring and get Bolter drill. If you read what chapter tactics says it says successor armies get the chapter tactics that the successor follows. Therefore crimson fist choose imperial fist. Because Pedro forces it. Only downside is special ammo isn't Bolter drill.

Hah, I definitely missed that note that it says Sternguard and Legion of the Damned only. Fml.
Also, Chapter Tactics doesn't apply to vehicles? Damn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I see for Chapter tactics is that is says "Models in this Detachment", so would that not confer to vehicles as well? I thought it would.

Pg77 of C:SM states:
"All models benefit from the appropriate Chapter Tactics for their detachment's Chapter, providing they have the Chapter Tactics special rule."

Unfortunately, speeders and dreadnougts do not have the chapter tactics special rule...

The exception seems to be Iron Hands IWND which is why my next list is mech heavy and IH CT.. Ill post when its done.


Edit: Makes me wonder about a tac squad with a dedicated rhino. The rhino doesn't have CT.. Does it get a scout move with Ravenguard CT? Might have to post that in "You make da call"

Edit: The rhino can scout.


How about this though.. Salamanders CT as main detachment with 3 assault squad with flamer/flamer and a free rhino. 95 points for dual flamer spitting rhino that rerolls wounds?? Seems legit. I can have IH ally with troops for FNP to help on objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's try again:

Main Detachment - 1075
CT: Salamanders
HQ - 235
Chapter master with Artificer armor and Shield Eternal and Teeth of Terra

Troops - 380
Tactical Squad (10) with flamer, combi-flamer and a rhino - 190
Tactical Squad (10) with flamer, combi-flamer and a rhino - 190

Fast Attack - 285
Assault Squad (5) with flamer and flamer in a rhino - 95
Assault Squad (5) with flamer and flamer in a rhino - 95
Assault Squad (5) with flamer and flamer in a rhino - 95

Heavy - 175
Thunderfire Cannon - 100
Stalker - 75


Allied Detachment - 915
CT: Imperial Fists
HQ - 235
Chapter master with Artificer armor and Shield Eternal and Teeth of Terra

Troops - 380
Tactical Squad (10) with flamer, multi-melta and a rhino - 190
Tactical Squad (10) with flamer, multi-melta and a rhino - 190

Heavy Support - 140
Tri-Las Predator

Fast Attack - 160
Speeder Squadron (2) with multi-melta/multi-melta - 160

Hmmm.. Looks somewhat solid for a play test. I totally forgot the Assault squads, which seem pretty legit to me.
I still need more look overs through the codex myself in order to get a good grasp of it. I think I'll just finally pick up my paper copy this Thursday so I have a physical copy to scroll through. Plus, it's so much easier. Hahah.

 DietOfLiquor wrote:
Hah, I definitely missed that note that it says Sternguard and Legion of the Damned only. Fml.
Also, Chapter Tactics doesn't apply to vehicles? Damn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I see for Chapter tactics is that is says "Models in this Detachment", so would that not confer to vehicles as well? I thought it would.

A tank is a model some people are just to stupid and think to much about wording therefore yes CT works on things with an AV

FYI - If you look at Sgt. Telion's entry in the Codex, he's UltraMarine but... you can substitute the regular Scout Sgt. for Sgt. Telion for 50 pts as per the Scout Squad entry: p167

Jpat1213 wrote:

 DietOfLiquor wrote:
Hah, I definitely missed that note that it says Sternguard and Legion of the Damned only. Fml.
Also, Chapter Tactics doesn't apply to vehicles? Damn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All I see for Chapter tactics is that is says "Models in this Detachment", so would that not confer to vehicles as well? I thought it would.

A tank is a model some people are just to stupid and think to much about wording therefore yes CT works on things with an AV

As I previously stated:

Pg77 of C:SM states:
"All models benefit from the appropriate Chapter Tactics for their detachment's Chapter, providing they have the Chapter Tactics special rule."

Unfortunately, speeders and dreadnougts do not have the chapter tactics special rule. Nor do most other vehicles. Therefore CT does NOT work with them. It isn't about over-reading the rules, it's about reading them.

Note: Iron Hands IWND specifically states it works on vehicles without CT.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

MiG wrote:
FYI - If you look at Sgt. Telion's entry in the Codex, he's UltraMarine but... you can substitute the regular Scout Sgt. for Sgt. Telion for 50 pts as per the Scout Squad entry: p167

That doesn't work, unfortunately. His entry says CT:Ultramarines and limits his upgrade to only CT:Ultramarines detachments. How I wish it were true.