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So...I was recently asked a question for a tournament I've got coming up, and I'm a bit stumped.

The Burning Chariot of Tzeentch. It's got two ranged weapons...neither of which it can fire?

Have I missed a rule which allows the Chariot to fire its weapons, some way in which it has Relentless, or is it just a really bad unit?

You didn't miss anything. It has no way to fire while moving except via snapshots. However, it Can fire either weapon at full BS if it stays still.

And it's coming up on 6 months without an FAQ to address this issue.
I mean it could be intended but I can't imagine what their train of thought would be.

We are all missing something. GW hasn't told us how they want the chariot to work. If I was being a TO then I would FAQ it as relentless as I feel it is at least meant to be that. But we just don't know at the moment how it is intended to work. RAW no moving and shooting.

IIRC the chariot doesn't have any weapons right ?

It's the passenger that has the shooting attacks and this is the issue yes ?

... Been ages since I looked at it, is one of the shooting attacks a template weapon ? So it could move 6" and fire that weapon still ?

..been ages since I looked at the thing.

Yes I'm afraid you are correct. Both the Blue and Pink Fires are Heavy weapons carried by the passenger, not the vehicle. Since the passenger is not Relentless he cannot fire is Heavies from a moving Chariot without reducing them to Snapshots.

It is a glaring oversight that has gone 6 months without correction. I cannot believe it was intentional either because I'm fairly sure it is moving and shooting in the Daemons introductory Battle Report.

That said even if it could move and shoot, it wouldn't be the best Heavy going. It would be similar to a Land Speeder Typhoon with S9, AP2 rockets and a 5+ Invulnerable save.

Both weapons are heavy so even if you move up to 6" only snap shots so no template. Which makes the whole unit completely useless.

Its a shame as i have two, used it once with house rules but didnt do much as it is quite short ranged. It is very annoying at the lack of proper FAQ's lately, seems we were spoiled with the influx of faq's pre daemon dex.

"Vehicles always have the Relentless special rule." page 71

Kangodo wrote:
"Vehicles always have the Relentless special rule." page 71

That's true but the passenger has the guns and vehicles do not confer relentless to the passengers.

It doesn't matter that the vehicle has Relentless, because it's the passenger that is carrying the guns.

In exactly the same way that a Marine cannot fire his Lascannon from a moving Rhino, but a Razorback can do it just fine if the Lascannon is actually part of the vehicle.

Aah, I missed that because the op said the vehicle had the weapons

Maybe it hasn't been FAQ'd because it works as intended?

Not every unit is brilliant.

It's an Open-topped fast skimmer with AV10 and no defensive mechanics beyond Daemon of Tzeentch. On top of that, all of it's guns are short-ranged.
There is absolutely no way that a unit could be designed like this and come to the conclusion that it is worth 100pts. If you field it like a gun turret, let's hope your opponent is going to walk into weapons range and not shoot the AV10 Open-Top? Alternatively is the BS4 a clever ruse and it is actually supposed to be all Snapshots, all the time?

As mentioned I'm very certain that one is used in the Daemons Battle Report and it moves and shoots just fine. It is not just the fact that the unit clearly does not work, but that it has taken them *6 months* to even acknowledge there are any problems that need FAQing in the entire book.

 grendel083 wrote:
Maybe it hasn't been FAQ'd because it works as intended?

Not every unit is brilliant.

Whilst certainly possible it seems unlikely a new unit with a new model would be so terrible. This unit, as is, is not just bad but flat out unusable. With Relentless it becomes mediocre, with fires like a fast vehicle it becomes good (but still not brilliant).

 FlingitNow wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Maybe it hasn't been FAQ'd because it works as intended?

Not every unit is brilliant.

Whilst certainly possible it seems unlikely a new unit with a new model would be so terrible. This unit, as is, is not just bad but flat out unusable. With Relentless it becomes mediocre, with fires like a fast vehicle it becomes good (but still not brilliant).

Chaos Space Marine Multilators are a new and terrible unit. It happens.
Fortunately the Fantasy version of the rules are good for the chariot, so sales are still decent.

Yes Mutilators are poor but they function. They do the job they were designed for it is just that job doesn't work great in 6th Ed and there are easier ways to do it. They have toned down most assault units in this edition.

This is a fast skimmer that can't move and shoot. The fact that it can move and shoot in fantasy but not 40k is illustrative of the issue. If there had been an FAQ for Daemons and it wasn't addressed Id see more credence to that argument. But Daemons are still waiting on their first full FAQ.

There's just no way to tell.
6 months for an FAQ is a long time, a change might be coming, or they might be happy with how things work. Time will tell.

But there is a lot of assumption that the chariot is somehow "incorrect" and requires a house-rule. There's also a chance this might not be the case and it works as intended. Only GW knows (well, we hope they know).

Agreed.

Wait... Wait... What? Oh no.

Okay, who wants to buy a newly painted and based Burning Chariot?

-.-

If this thing ever gets updated, I'm totally getting one. There's one sitting on the shelf at the store and it looks so cool that I really want to get it, but still...

Alternatively, has anyone had any luck running with the Herald on it?

Well, I think I will rule that it has Relentless for the tournament. It seems like there is at least a modicum of support for my initial gut feeling on it, so I don't think I will get too much backlash.

It competes with the Daemon Prince and Soul Grinder for Heavy Support so it might not be seen anyway. How many at the club/store say they want to use it?

I would rather use a torrent slaanesh soul grinder than the burning chariot.

 Wilytank wrote:
It competes with the Daemon Prince and Soul Grinder for Heavy Support so it might not be seen anyway. How many at the club/store say they want to use it?

One wants to use it, but a number of other players voiced their support for his request when he asked me to make a call on it.

I'd say that because you are the TO, you can certainly FAQ it such that the drivers have relentless.

If I was playing in your tournament I'd be good with that.

Just be sure everyone knows.

There are two ways to make this "work"
1) Make it a chariot weapon only when the Chariot is ridden by the Exalted Flamer. As a Fast vehicle you will be able to fire it at Combat or Cruising speed, but will not be able to use it for Overwatch.
2) Give the Exalted Flamer the Relentless rule. This keeps it on the Flamer (as it is currently), however cannot be fired if you move Cruising speed.

 Happyjew wrote:
There are two ways to make this "work"
1) Make it a chariot weapon only when the Chariot is ridden by the Exalted Flamer. As a Fast vehicle you will be able to fire it at Combat or Cruising speed, but will not be able to use it for Overwatch.
2) Give the Exalted Flamer the Relentless rule. This keeps it on the Flamer (as it is currently), however cannot be fired if you move Cruising speed.

Option 1 is the one my group currently uses for the BC. Its the only way it makes any sense, because, IIRC, there's not anything that specifically says the weapon is on the rider, just that the rider dictates the weapon load-out.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
IIRC, there's not anything that specifically says the weapon is on the rider, just that the rider dictates the weapon load-out.

The rules do dictate that the weapons are on the Exalted Flamer(the rider).

I would go with option 2. In a HIWPI format; the rules are obviously clear.

Option 2 is indeed the route I went.