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Okay sooooooo I'll be very blunt and honest about this....I hate flyers. They just seem to be annoying to me. Sure I'll openly admit some look cool. But aside from that...I'd rather see them crash and burn while I laugh like a comic book villain while rubbing my hands together with a funny mustache and top hat. Those of you who catch the reference you earn a cookie. But back to the topic! What army, or build would make Flyers nothing more but that little mosquito that just got smashed to oblivion? Now granted I'm a Space Wolf Player proud and true. I'm just curious to know what others think is the army that can make Flyers cry. This goes for Flying Monstrous Creatures as well. Everything else...eh I know a way to take care of bikes and the monstrous creatures of the land flavor...sick Giant Wolves after them

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
What army, or build would make Flyers nothing more but that little mosquito that just got smashed to oblivion?

Another flier-heavy army of course.

You can also try Tau but they are not THAT effective.

A Tau army that is heavy with interceptor riptides would do the job. It's arguable the strongest army against flyers, and ontop of that, it shoots them down before they get the chance to shoot themselves.

But then, you'd be a Tau player...

The redoubt is pretty good vs. Flyers and deepstrikers...pricy, though


I run CSM, my typical anti-air are heldrakes, the quadgun, or the redoubt

Belly wrote:A Tau army that is heavy with interceptor riptides would do the job. It's arguable the strongest army against flyers, and ontop of that, it shoots them down before they get the chance to shoot themselves.

But then, you'd be a Tau player...

Eh I'm not MWG Dave who hates Tau...And I do love their battle suits and have more then once wished I could get my hands on one just to Wolf it up. Not to mention I wouldn't mind starting them somewhere down the road. But right now eh. But yeah Riptides man...I've heard they may be the answer to Flyers or all types. Though I've also heard the same of IG

AstraVlad wrote:

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
What army, or build would make Flyers nothing more but that little mosquito that just got smashed to oblivion?

Another flier-heavy army of course.

You can also try Tau but they are not THAT effective.

Well those are given....Seems like Tau are getting a good lead on this thus far. I just see things like the Helldrake and Flying Monstrous Creatures and see these annoying little buggers that are there just to zap away some fun for those who are still in need of updates and or just to make the game a bit more eh. Again I think I liked it better in 5th edition where it seemed more tank and vehicle heavy. Then again in that edition SW were one of the stronger armies and totally not saying this cause I want em to still be

But that aside idk...What have been other's experiences thus far with the slow meta shift to Flyers? Do you guys of DakkaDakka like em? or are there those like me who just...wouldn't mind seeing them move to the side a bit and let the ground forces fight it out like they should? Maybe have flyers zoom by to drop bombs or something then leave the table for a turn or two.


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karandras15 wrote:
The redoubt is pretty good vs. Flyers and deepstrikers...pricy, though


I run CSM, my typical anti-air are heldrakes, the quadgun, or the redoubt

My friend is also a proud follow of Chaos my good sire. He too says the Heldrake is a very nice AA. I've had the misfortune to have run into someone who played multiple ones. it ended my mood for the game for a few weeks... but it was regained when I only fought one in a battle that was fairly sided and fun because of how cool the other guy was and my fav: CC!! I wasn't more or less tabled by turn 3 due to fire being fired from it's rear and crazy vector strikes etc.

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:

What have been other's experiences thus far with the slow meta shift to Flyers? Do you guys of DakkaDakka like em?

Fliers can give a total new dimention to the game and I like it. I usually have 2 Vendettas in my IG list and sometimes even take 3-rd one. Anti-air support, anti-vehicle shooting, late-game objective contesting -- name it and fliers will help you do do it better. As it is in real life, by the way .

Run guard allies and take a vendetta, all your flyer problems will be solved. Alternatively, if you don't like fliers so much you refuse to use them, take hydras, for 75 pts they're not bad. But really the vendetta is the answer to all your flyer problems.

DakkaDakka once again you come through with honest people, giving honest suggestions and tips. With some nice variety. Thank you everyone thus far for responding. And by all means...if you feel like voicing more thoughts on the matter feel free! This is a thread meant to build up tacts :3

Aegia Defense line is the most efficient choice. I also want to ally in some Space Marines to my Dark Angels to get the Hunter for the Savant Lock.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Aegia Defense line is the most efficient choice. I also want to ally in some Space Marines to my Dark Angels to get the Hunter for the Savant Lock.

I can back that. I can see the Aegis and the new AA tanks going hand in hand. Heck now that I think about it Aegis + Stalker/Hunter + lets say Tau or IG for their scary AA potential you'd have the bane of Flyer existence right there. Quad Gun shooting it up the second it arrives before the flyer gets to shoot, your stuff lasts the turn then when you get to shoot you can just unload all that Skyfire onto the flyer or flyers and watch the blazes of glory! That actually sounds exciting!

Well, at 2K you get double FOC, so take IF tactics, 2 ADLs, and 2 Dev squads manning them. 8 S7 skyfire/interceptor shots with Tank Hunter. Also Twin Linked.

Basically, you miss maybe one shot, and with tank hunters, even against AV12, you probably land 3 or 4 of those. Heldrake a turn, and that's if you're rounding down.

And while you're at it, give all the Devs Lascannons. 8 of them firing at flyers are bound to land one or two shots, and those have a great chance to pen with Tank Hunters (and are very useful against ground things too), with each pen having a 1/3 chance of popping the flyer.

And if you REALLY want to go overboard ally in Tigurius and have him cast prescience on a unit, meaning 4 of those lascannons get re-rolls to hit. Or a Rune Priest from SW allies.

Then maybe take a hunter in that 3rd FOC HS slot. 2d6 armor pen + AP2, means any given shot has about a 50% chance of taking a hull point off, and a 16% chance of killing whatever AV12 thing you're shooting at.

Or just take a Stalker. Less chance to kill something per shot, but 4 shots means you glance or pen once or twice a turn, and can fire at two targets if you want.

Or a Stormraven with Typhoon ML, and probably a TL-MM. Now that thing (the TL MM) will instagib flyers, 8/9 chance to hit, 5/6 chance to Pen, and 1/2 chance to pop, for a 75% chance to take a hull point off and a 37% chance of blowing it up. TML has a good chance of landing a glacing or penetrating hit too.

I play SW too, in addition to vanilla, so I really want their updated Dex to come out so they can get their own anti-air goodies, instead of needing to borrow everyone else's. Though it's worth mentioning that if you're running SW, allying in IF can work too. You'll only get 1 Dev squad, but you can get lascannons cheaper, and man both ADLs from your primary SW at 2k, which basically does a similarly good job against flyers. A unit of LasC Devs with a Rune Priest casting Prescience manning 2 ADLs is similarly effective to two Dev LasC units manning two ADLs without a libby casting prescience.

For strictly Space Wolves-only anti-flier:
Rune Priest (using Living Lightning) with a 5-man Grey Hunter squad + ADL w/ Quad-gun (and the GH unit might take an optional Plasma gun should points allow). When there aren't flyers about this small unit can toss considerable amounts of long range S7 shots all around the table at infantry, monsters, and light-medium vehicles. Once a flier comes in fire on it with the quad-gun (and might as well hit it with snap-shotted Lightning when the opportunity presents itself) until it goes down. Depending on how many fliers there are (or how tough fliers are) in your meta a ton of snap-shots from Long Fangs might also be in order.

If you're willing to ally:
A squad of IG veterans is better for sitting behind the line (the rune priest still works well with them), having twice as many bodies but the same BS as the Grey Hunters. They can also take 3 special weapons and a heavy weapon to add to the weight of fire that the unit puts out. With IG orders a Company Commander within 12" can also make the unit's weapons twin-linked vs. vehicles or monsters, helping with bringing down the flyer if you're shooting a lot of special/heavy weapon snap-shots at it. Adding in a Hydra (or squad of them) can also be good (particularly if your meta is also skimmer-heavy).

Additionally, a Leman Russ Exterminator with Knight Commander Pask mounted in it can be good at drowning fliers with snap-shots. The beast packs a twin-linked, four-shot Autocannon and can be kitted out to have 3 Heavy Bolters. Pask gives it +1 to vehicle penetration rolls (so, effectively, 4 T-L S8 shots and 9 S6 shots vs. a vehicle) and it re-rolls to wounds against monstrous creatures. The vehicle is even more effective against ground targets, against which it can make use of Pask's BS4--I find it is a wonderful, take-all-comers tank. It usually runs 220pts~, though, so that might be too expensive for your tastes. On the bright side Space Wolves used to be able to take Exterminators, so if you have an old SW exterminator Pask makes a very good excuse to bring it out (the BS4 even makes it perform as if it had an SW crew!).

If you're willing to actually take a flyer:
Adding a vendetta to the mix can be a wonderful boon. It can carry up to 12 guardsmen (taking a cheap squad to drop on an objective late-game is an idea I've always liked), it's rather tough for being a 130pt flyer, and with 3 T-L Lascannons it'll drop other birds out of the sky and/or pop enemy tanks left-and-right.

3x Hydras may not be the most efficient choice, but are still pretty fun.

Especially if that enemy happens to be Eldar/Dark Eldar, the hydra works well against skimmers also.

Space Marine Sentry Turrets with Hyperios Missile Launchers. BS3 Skyfire Interceptor Heat-Seeker Krak Missiles on T6 W2 artillery. 4 per squad for the same as you'd pay for 5x Missle Launcher Long Fangs. Heavy Support.

You can find them in IA12 - The Fall of Orpheus.

Whenever I play Tau or Eldar it feels like I should have just handed them over my flyer at the start of the game.

The Eldar Crimson Hunter is great as an anti-air unit.
But, as most Eldar units are, is paper-thin, and can get shot down by Bolters.

For the points, go with IG, if you take a flier to counters fliers.

Staying away from flyers ally in guard and take some sabres with lascannons, they will drop flyers like nobody's business.

How do you make someone regret bringing a flyer? A hammer...

 Alfndrate wrote:
How do you make someone regret bringing a flyer? A hammer...

Or a foot. A guy brought a storm eagle to whw and put it under the table,on a stool, just far enough back so you couldn't see it and just near enough to knock it over with a foot. He regretted bringing it.
Although he did manage to fix it.

The Contemptor Pattern Mortis Dreadnaught is pretty nice for AA as well. If you don't move it, it gains Skyfire and Interceptor.

Give it 2 Kheres Assault Cannons (6 shots each) and a Cyclone Missile Launcher. Now you are throwing out 12 Assault Cannon shots and 2 missiles at full BS the turn the flyer comes on the table. It's hard to beat that!

AstraVlad wrote:

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:

What have been other's experiences thus far with the slow meta shift to Flyers? Do you guys of DakkaDakka like em?

Fliers can give a total new dimention to the game and I like it. I usually have 2 Vendettas in my IG list and sometimes even take 3-rd one. Anti-air support, anti-vehicle shooting, late-game objective contesting -- name it and fliers will help you do do it better. As it is in real life, by the way .

Bad example, as vendettas are generally accepted to be 100 points undercost for what they do.

Honestly, you might not think so but i would take as many drop pods as you can, as many rhinos and then camp their deployment zone, since they don't arrive till turn 2/3 that gives you a lot of time to punish their ground troops and most flyers can't make the turning circle to hit you, SW are amazing drop pod troops, box ---> [_] (me)
obviously it's not fullproof but it can work

Orock wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:

What have been other's experiences thus far with the slow meta shift to Flyers? Do you guys of DakkaDakka like em?

Fliers can give a total new dimention to the game and I like it. I usually have 2 Vendettas in my IG list and sometimes even take 3-rd one. Anti-air support, anti-vehicle shooting, late-game objective contesting -- name it and fliers will help you do do it better. As it is in real life, by the way .

Bad example, as vendettas are generally accepted to be 100 points undercost for what they do.

Not really. Vendettas are legal, and exist, so they are the standard. There is no way to enforce what they are actually worth. Unfortunately. Which means all other AA flyers are fighting for a distant 2nd place. Distant, distant 2nd place.

Orock wrote:

AstraVlad wrote:

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:

What have been other's experiences thus far with the slow meta shift to Flyers? Do you guys of DakkaDakka like em?

Fliers can give a total new dimention to the game and I like it. I usually have 2 Vendettas in my IG list and sometimes even take 3-rd one. Anti-air support, anti-vehicle shooting, late-game objective contesting -- name it and fliers will help you do do it better. As it is in real life, by the way .

Bad example, as vendettas are generally accepted to be 100 points undercost for what they do.

You're joking. A Stormraven is 200, and probably overpriced even with all the goodies it gets (including BS4, AV12 rear, Ceremite Plating, and Assault Vehicle, and Power of the Machine Spirit).

If you seriously think the Vendetta should cost more than a Stormraven, I want some of what you're smoking.

Functionally, the Vendetta should be right there with the Stormraven, since many of the Stormraven add-ons are totally worthless in practice. However, it is true that the Stormraven has features the Vendetta doesn't. However, the Stormraven has inferior weapons armament in general.

Necrons as allies a overlord a unit of warriors in a night scythe and an annihilation barge around 350 points depending on kit and warrior size puts out s7 twinlinked and they get extra hits if one hits (on a 6). Cheap and effective.
Pure wolves though others have mentioned them.

karandras15 wrote:
The redoubt is pretty good vs. Flyers and deepstrikers...pricy, though


I run CSM, my typical anti-air are heldrakes, the quadgun, or the redoubt

I've found when playing against the redoubt that in some circumstances is can be played around. For example, I play Daemons and use 4-5 FMCs at 2000 points. Usually Fateweaver and some Tzeentch Princes, one of which has hopefully gotten invisibility and is holding the Grimoire. That'll give Fateweaver a re-rollable 2++, and the Grimoire Prince a re-rollable 2+ cover save. With proper placement, you'll force the redoubt to shoot at one of these very hard to hurt targets.

If you want people to just stop using flyers because the cannot win then you need FW.

IG
Take a naked lord commissar, 2 platoons w/PCS, 2xIS all naked, 3x3 earthshaker heavy artillery, and then fill out those platoons with 16 LC saber defense platforms. If the opponent survive 9 S8 AP3 barrage large pie plates first turn then their flyers get to deal with 16 TL S9 AP2 interceptor shots as they come on. Flyer heavy armies will die without being able to do anything and you will loose all friends. BTW this army is terrible in objective games or when the opponent brings actual troops or something aggressive.

Fill every single space on the board with models perfectly spaced out so there is no spot for them to legally place.

That will teach em.

Otherwise a BUNCH of interceptor.

So you're a Space Wolf player? Long Fangs. Lots of em.
Speaking from experience
3 Squads of long fangs prescience'd (did I spell that right?) is a mean thing to deal with, and I have to admit after facing it I stopped using my Storm Eagle, like I literally have not used it since it got shot down.
And a Storm Eagle is a tough cookie, mind you.
Or maybe a squad of long fangs behind an Aegis with the sergeant manning the gun if you do not want to take up all 3 Heavy slots.


I just hate it when everyone's answer to anti-flyer is "Hey I've got 250 points to spend! Let me just stick an IG ally in there with a Vendetta!"

Uh, no thank you.