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If you can directly quote from brb please do so

If my opponent scouts forward and I have first turn and using jump infantry (necron wraiths) can they assault that unit as long as they make their charge distance

Yes. The rules prohibit a unit that scouted from charging, but they are still a valid for an assault.

_e

yep, and it only prevents scouting units from assaulting during the first turn. So if the player with the scouts is going second he can still assault on his turn.

Well the assault rules tell you how to assault. Beyond that I don't see how we could cite the BrB. You would then need a restriction denying you the ability to assault and as there isn't one there is nothing for us to quote.

yeah you can assault them they cannot assault you first turn

pg 41, scouts
A unit that makes a scout redeployment cannot charge on the first turn.

Specifically, if you go first, there is no way (per the rules) to charge 1st turn -- not with scouts, infiltrators, or deployed units. Your opponents first turn (the 2nd phase of game turn 1) will allow them to charge you for getting too close, though.

 Radical_Edward wrote:
Specifically, if you go first, there is no way (per the rules) to charge 1st turn -- not with scouts, infiltrators, or deployed units.

There are in fact a few ways that get brought up in such discussions, such as Ork Stormboys (12+D6" movement) or Ork vehicles with Red Paint Jobs, or the generic Warlord Trait that adds 1" to charge distances. But such tactics rely on the opponent not thinking of these and deploying as close as they can.

Also add in this situation. Some one scouts/infiltrates forward I go first I can charge him. The pivot trick still works. But in mist cases your charge range is not huge so you're reliant on your opponent deploying in a stupid way and/or a massive charge roll.

There is also debate going on about whether you can assault out of a scouting transport (as you have not scouted it has).

 Dumah12 wrote:
If you can directly quote from brb please do so

If my opponent scouts forward and I have first turn and using jump infantry (necron wraiths) can they assault that unit as long as they make their charge distance

As said by others, you could only assault his units which scouted if he went first and you went second, since the BRB's ruling on first turn assault restrictions restricts the first turn means "Player Turn," as it does not specify "Game Turn."

 evildrspock wrote:

 Dumah12 wrote:
If you can directly quote from brb please do so

If my opponent scouts forward and I have first turn and using jump infantry (necron wraiths) can they assault that unit as long as they make their charge distance

As said by others, you could only assault his units which scouted if he went first and you went second, since the BRB's ruling on first turn assault restrictions restricts the first turn means "Player Turn," as it does not specify "Game Turn."

This is wrong.

Firstly there is no blanked brb restriction on 1st turn assaults just specific cases where you are prevented such as DS, scout, etc. If you can assault a unit 1st turn because your opponent tried to be cheeky and you seized the initiative then you can assault any unit he left in the open so long as the unit you assault with doesn't have a restriction preventing it from assaulting.

Units capable of assaulting first turn:

- Assaulting enemy Scouts and Infiltrators that have deployed too close.
- Irregular-shaped transports beginning the game with a pivot to gain an extra inch or 2.
- Warlords who roll up +1" to charges
- Ork Stormboyz who gain +D6" to each move they make with a Rokkit Pack
- Ork vehicles equipped with a Red Paintjob and roll a 12" for charge

There is no blanket restriction on first turn charges. However the deployment rules require that armies start *at least* 24" away, putting them out of range for all standard charges and unit types. The rules that shorten this distance, being Scout and Infiltrate, prevent first-turn charges.
However there are other ways to either close the gap or increase the movement rates of units, and in these cases a first-turn charge is 100% ok.

Orks are particularly good at this with Stormboyz, RPJ and all of their transports being long and thin.

I must have blended that restriction with the scout/infiltrators working, oops. EDIT: Also, I believe that Bikes, Beasts, and Calvary are quite capable of getting a 1st turn charge, as long as you roll a 12 on your charge dice and your opponent deploys right up at the edge of the board. That will probably be rare, though.

Nope - since you must deploy more than 12" from the center of the board, a 24" inch charge will never reach.

 evildrspock wrote:
I must have blended that restriction with the scout/infiltrators working, oops. EDIT: Also, I believe that Bikes, Beasts, and Calvary are quite capable of getting a 1st turn charge, as long as you roll a 12 on your charge dice and your opponent deploys right up at the edge of the board. That will probably be rare, though.

Unfortunately not. All of the standard deployments require *at least* 24 inches between armies. No matter how closely you toe the line, at best you are going to be 24.000000......00001" apart. Even if you deployed directly opposite to an infinitely small scale and moved in a perfectly straight line without any deviation, you will still be 0.000...00001" apart and thus assault is impossible.

If you ever find yourself in a position where you've achieved it, I guarantee you 100% it is because somebody made a measurement error somewhere because it is simply impossible if you follow the rules properly.

Not really.

You can start on the line inside an Assault Vehicle. Pivot the vehicle to get 1-3", depending on the vehicle in question. Move that vehicle 6" forward. Disembark the contents 6" from the vehicle. And then assault 12". That gives you 1-3" to play with.

Stormboys can also do it since they move 12+d6" in the movement phase. 12+D6 +2D6charge distance gives them a maximum of 30" charge threat.

Landraiders, Raiders, Battlewagons(especially Battlewagons), and Trukks can all get a turn 1 assault even if they go first. The enemy could even not be right on the line opposite them. it would be unlikely, but definitely possible.

And if the battlewagon or trukk has a RPJ you can add another inch of threat.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not really.

You can start on the line inside an Assault Vehicle. Pivot the vehicle to get 1-3", depending on the vehicle in question. Move that vehicle 6" forward. Disembark the contents 6" from the vehicle. And then assault 12". That gives you 1-3" to play with.

Stormboys can also do it since they move 12+d6" in the movement phase. 12+D6 +2D6charge distance gives them a maximum of 30" charge threat.

Landraiders, Raiders, Battlewagons(especially Battlewagons), and Trukks can all get a turn 1 assault even if they go first. The enemy could even not be right on the line opposite them. it would be unlikely, but definitely possible.

And if the battlewagon or trukk has a RPJ you can add another inch of threat.

Which has zero to do with the post that was being responded to.

He said a turn 1 assault was impossible.

Even if you deployed directly opposite to an infinitely small scale and moved in a perfectly straight line without any deviation, you will still be 0.000...00001" apart and thus assault is impossible.

I just proved it wasn't impossible with normal deployment. You don't even need the enemy to be right on the line(24.000000......00001" apart) they could even be an inch or so farther back and you could still make it depending on the vehicle.

 Grey Templar wrote:
He said a turn 1 assault was impossible.

Not quite, go back a bit.
He was responding directly to Beasts and Cavalry.

The units you mentioned had already been listed, to which someone added Beasts and Cavalry with a max 24" move. That is what was quoted as being imposible.

 Grey Templar wrote:
He said a turn 1 assault was impossible.

... with beasts and cavalry. Which it is. Your post had no relevance.

Oh I got it, the wording is MORE than 12" from from the center line. That's silly, but conceded ...

Dreadnoughts in a dreadnought pod? Not read the FW rules on them, do the pods rules prevent a 1st turn charge? If not you have a reliable way of charging in assault dreads such as the furioso or death co dread (think blood talons). With a librarian also podding nearby and casting presience on it, that is a non-2+ unit just dissapeared before the enemies even moved.
As I said, I haven't seen its rules so this might not be possible...

Yes the Lucius also allows a turn 1 charge.

 FlingitNow wrote:
Yes the Lucius also allows a turn 1 charge.

Not anymore it doesnt. PAge 24, IA: Apocalypse

Did they change it? Thanks for the update.

Can you still charge from it if it is not first turn? Im thinking of getting two for my death co dreads but I dont want to pay a fortune for the rules to find its pants.

You cannot charge on the turn the Lucius drops in. IIRC, you are not required to immediately disembark, so you can drop in, then the following turn jump out and charge.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Can you still charge from it if it is not first turn? Im thinking of getting two for my death co dreads but I dont want to pay a fortune for the rules to find its pants.

From what I've heard (don't have the book meself), you can't charge out of it the turn it comes down, but you don't have to disembark immediately (dread stays in pod) and it does something with Shrouded (so the opponent needs to deal with a 12/12/12 shrouded thing before even scratching the Dread. The dread charges the turn after landing (pod is still and assault vehicle).

Ahhh thanks! So like extra armour (not the vehicle upgrade) for the dread, not as good as insta charge but still pretty funky!

Mozzamanx wrote:
Unfortunately not. All of the standard deployments require *at least* 24 inches between armies. No matter how closely you toe the line, at best you are going to be 24.000000......00001" apart. Even if you deployed directly opposite to an infinitely small scale and moved in a perfectly straight line without any deviation, you will still be 0.000...00001" apart and thus assault is impossible.

If you ever find yourself in a position where you've achieved it, I guarantee you 100% it is because somebody made a measurement error somewhere because it is simply impossible if you follow the rules properly.

'at least' does not mean 'more than', it means 'not less than'. Exactly 24" apart fully lives up to 'at least 24" apart'.

Can you measure that to the micron? Can you move in a perfectly straight line with zero deviation?

It is impossible because you can reduce it to whatever scale you need to, and you will fail at some level. Even if it is 0.000000000001" out using a SEM microscope, its gone.