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I have had much success at running them solely as bodies present on game turn 1 and surviving that said turn so that my reserves may include things such as my GUO and Soul Grinders

I understand that they cannot cap objectives, and they are relatively squishy for being a Nurgle Unit, but I find when they are used properly they can be cheap and effective at maintaining that body count.

Why do you need bodies? What do these bodies accomplish other then 'being' their? Do they still have scout? If so I guess they can walk forward and threaten a...what? Guardsmen squad?

Taking bodies for the sake of bodies is meaningless, when you could take plague bearers who can cap objectives with create cover saves and some mediocre combat ability. The only possible use I can imagine for them is to deep strike them into cover so they get a good save, then if they survive they can tank over watch for a more important unit. I can't see any other reason to take them.

Well here's my problem with that

for 45 points I can maintain and HAVE effectively maintained a squad of nurglings (3 bases at 12W per squad) in cover / buildings.

I use my Plague Bearers with Icons as beacons for my slingshots with Grinders and other plague Bearers...

So for 45-135 points of bodies, I am keeping 12-36 Wounds alive and well while my opponents positions himself closer to attempt to table me... This has NEVER happened yet..

The OP needs bodies on the table because it sounds like he's cramming his beefy stuff into reserve and doesn't want his weaker 50% of the army shot off the board Turn 1. Granted, I'm still not sure that Nurglings are a good choice. I think a few units of Plaguebearers can get the job done while also doing some actual fighting.

I've seen a 5-6 base squad of Nurglings hold an objective for a game (the rest of the army was pretty much tabled, however, with the nurglings not really contributing to the fight at all). At the same time hilariously tragic things occur when an S6 Torrent weapon (The Heavy Incinerator or the Hellhound's gun come to mind) gets rushed up to them--unless you have more nurglings than anyone should ever put into an army I'd be very wary of a Dreadknight-heavy GK list. Those 5+ saves are only going to work so many times.

Likan, you are correct lol

In my group of friends, thankfully, no one has IG armies that I have to worry about XD So thankfully flamers and the vast majority of large templates is left to Tau and SM.

I had once played a game where an Orbital Bombardment managed a direct hit on a squad of 4 bases of nurglings, but even then my 5++ saves 1 base and I was fine.

The most wounds Ive lost on them was essentially 16, then once my reserves arrive the grinders tally up my chart from Epidemius, and my GUO tends to soak up fire until the smaller units get into close combat (Which is usually 1 round after they arrive from DS) all in all, this plan has done me well for about 13-14 games now

I think the biggest point to consider is that they are Infiltrators, while Nurgle is essentially defined by Shrouded.

See where this is going?

By Infiltrating a thin wall of Nurglings at maximum coherency, you can actually string them out quite a length. Any time enemy shooting crosses that line, you can claim a cover save against it. Even better, you can claim a 3+ Cover save since you are Shrouded.
If your opponent doesn't like it, he can feel free to pump his shots into a Shrouded swarm that is offensively worthless and has the highest Wound-density of any unit in the game.

Think of them as a KFF Big Mek with infinite range, that protects everything 'behind' it. Or some kind of smellier Aegis Line that trades its Quad Gun for the ability to move and deploy last, to absolutely guarantee you can get the shield in place for the first turn.

because their chaos
FOR THE EMPEROR!

Mozzamanx wrote:
I think the biggest point to consider is that they are Infiltrators, while Nurgle is essentially defined by Shrouded.

See where this is going?

By Infiltrating a thin wall of Nurglings at maximum coherency, you can actually string them out quite a length. Any time enemy shooting crosses that line, you can claim a cover save against it. Even better, you can claim a 3+ Cover save since you are Shrouded.
If your opponent doesn't like it, he can feel free to pump his shots into a Shrouded swarm that is offensively worthless and has the highest Wound-density of any unit in the game.

Think of them as a KFF Big Mek with infinite range, that protects everything 'behind' it. Or some kind of smellier Aegis Line that trades its Quad Gun for the ability to move and deploy last, to absolutely guarantee you can get the shield in place for the first turn.

I'm sorry but that's not how stealth or shrouded works.

One unit kills nurglings for me wave serpents, tau also laugh at them. Str6 plus with no cover means 3 5++wounds nit 12

I'm sorry but that's not how stealth or shrouded works.

If a shot passes through another unit, you gain a 5+ Cover save. Shrouded adds 2 to your cover saves.
By deploying the Nurglings at the front, all firepower is going to pass through them and thus confer a Cover save to those warriors behind it. If the models behind happen to be Nurgle, they gain a 5+ with Shrouded = a 3+ Cover save for anything Nurgle, behind the line. Non-Nurgle troops will gain a 5+ only.

This will remain in play until the shots no longer pass through the Nurglings. Of course your opponent can shoot at them, but they are 4W with Invuls, Shrouded and the ability to Go-to-Ground.

Mozzamanx wrote:

I'm sorry but that's not how stealth or shrouded works.

If a shot passes through another unit, you gain a 5+ Cover save. Shrouded adds 2 to your cover saves.
By deploying the Nurglings at the front, all firepower is going to pass through them and thus confer a Cover save to those warriors behind it. If the models behind happen to be Nurgle, they gain a 5+ with Shrouded = a 3+ Cover save for anything Nurgle, behind the line. Non-Nurgle troops will gain a 5+ only.

This will remain in play until the shots no longer pass through the Nurglings. Of course your opponent can shoot at them, but they are 4W with Invuls, Shrouded and the ability to Go-to-Ground.

Ok, I thought you meant that the Nurglings are giving 3+ covers around.

That's not how cover works either.

Intervening model only works if the model that is being shot at is obscured by the other unit 25% measuring TLOS, so even with a 2" gap it doesn't make an invisible wall that shooting through auto gives a 3+.

No, it totally does work that way. A shot doesn't need to physically cross though the model, the 'invisible line' of coherency is enough to generate cover. Even if a model is not physically blocked by Nurglings, having a base on either side of him will generate a full save.


Rulebook, Page 18:
If a target is partially hidden from view by models from a third unit, it receives a 5+ cover save. Similarly if a model fires through the gaps between models in an intervening unit, the target is in cover even if it is completely visible to the firer.

nvm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
guess I've been tricked by opponents then

MarkyMark wrote:
One unit kills nurglings for me wave serpents, tau also laugh at them. Str6 plus with no cover means 3 5++wounds nit 12

I don't really know what you were trying to say, but I think I can make out that Wave Serpents, for you, make Nurglings a good target. Which I can agree with, in a list where I saw 3 against my 9 bases I lost 3 outright in 1 shooting phase, mind you, that wasn't nearly enough however...

As for tau, I actively fight them... They give me no such troubles as long as I am playing the models smart and in cover / buildings (As stated before) What is the worst that can happen to them with Tau? Gunlines of FWs? lol I don't mind that. 2 riptides tried their mightiest and one hurt itself. I just don't see them played in other armies as much and I was wondering why... especially when I see someone playing with a GUO hiding behind an ADL and slowly walking the board... The way I'm dropping him in enemy deployment zones, he becomes target priority over everything else without a thought or hesitation and that not only means that things like my Soul Grinders are left untouched, but my Plague Bearers get a free turn to wait. Which I also don't mind, as once my large 20 man squad of Plague Bearers with Herald and Epidemius join combat, Epidemius' boost from the Tally usually makes everything else within 6" +1 Str & Toughness.

BTW Soul Grinders with Torrent make amazing units to stack for Tally.. Its almost disgusting how many Fire Warriors I can kill even if spaced out... I usually end up with the modifiers by turn 2 if not beginning of turn 3.

I hate them because the models are absolutely horrible. I can't bear to have such play-doh looking travesties on the tabletop.

Good to see that Daemons have a Gretchin-equivalent. Too bad they cannot score - though I assume they can deny, and against the typically shooty objective cappers in this game I reckon they could deny for a looooong time

I use them, they are great cheap scoring units and in large groups pack a serious punch against non-melee units.

Just to make it perfectly clear, Swarms are *not* Scoring units, neither are they denial. They contribute absolutely nothing to an objective-based mission in terms of control.
Nurglings cannot claim an objective, nor can they take one from an enemy.

They exist purely to get in the way and take up space. These are useful qualities to perform but if you've been taking objectives with them, I am afraid you have been cheating.

Nurglings are nice for cheap wounds. There are two reasons they are often not used.
1) Swarm
2) T3

So any weapon that is template or S6 will ID the nurglings. If you use serpent shields against them each serpent will average ~3 dead nuglings from the shield alone. A Tau army will ML and shoot them with missile pods. This strips the cover, boosts the BS to 5, and hits with S7 to ID. Though honestly making the Tau waste ML on such a target may be worth it.

Flamers are available to almost every army and are popular for horde damage. They also ID nurglings and ignore cover. 1 flamer will usually average at least 1 dead nurgling. I hope you never fight a fire ball PCS user (ie 4x flamer IG PCS player).

They are not scoring due to swarm and they only have S3. This means that there are many situations where the unit contributes nothing but mobile cover (ie mech armies). Many daemons lists are MTO style lists where every single unit in the list is a threat and will eat you alive. The nurglings have no place in such a list.

I like nurglings and believe they have a place. I use them to man the firestorm redoubt and as an infiltrating tarpit (similar to you). I do find I need to cut them so I have 2 10 man plaguebearers far to often though.

Swarms can never score. P.123 of the rulebook. I could have sworn that swarms didnt count as intervening models, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the book.

That's because it isn't there! The only special rules relating to Swarms are an increased vulnerability to templates, move-through-cover and scoring limitations.

It works extra well because the new models are all stacked up doing piggybacks, so you actually get a fair bit of height out of them. Might be worth checking the height relative to an Aegis and if there's any potential to screen vehicles.

I use them to run the weapon systems in my FOR.

45 pts for a multiwound invulnerable save that can push the 'fire lots of missiles right now!' button? Works for me.

Unfortunately they do have a nasty tendency of going squish, especially to S 6 or better.

Epedimius in a huge blob o nurglings has worked for me sometimes, once the tally gets going. They are a whole lot more lethal when they are S/T 4, 2+ poisoned and FNP 4+

They also make a good small-arms bullet soak to the Nurgle Herald running the quad gun, as they enjoy that lovely 2+ cover save


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Swarms can never score. P.123 of the rulebook. I could have sworn that swarms didnt count as intervening models, but I couldn't find it anywhere in the book.

Might be thinking of 5th. They couldn't provide cover for MC's in 5th iirc.

Mozzamanx wrote:
That's because it isn't there! The only special rules relating to Swarms are an increased vulnerability to templates, move-through-cover and scoring limitations.

It works extra well because the new models are all stacked up doing piggybacks, so you actually get a fair bit of height out of them. Might be worth checking the height relative to an Aegis and if there's any potential to screen vehicles.

Are swarms still vulnerable to templates? I'm sure when I was playing crons recently I was told try weren't have I been duped?

D

 evildrcheese wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
That's because it isn't there! The only special rules relating to Swarms are an increased vulnerability to templates, move-through-cover and scoring limitations.

It works extra well because the new models are all stacked up doing piggybacks, so you actually get a fair bit of height out of them. Might be worth checking the height relative to an Aegis and if there's any potential to screen vehicles.

Are swarms still vulnerable to templates? I'm sure when I was playing crons recently I was told try weren't have I been duped?

D

You still take double wounds from blast, ordinance and template weapons.

Don't Nurglings still count as "Denying" enemy models the ability to cap objectives, IF they are in CC with the said unit trying to cap?

I always lock my opponents up with these little buggers when they get close and try to be sneaky.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess not.. Im gonna have to keep an eye on that then.. I cannot find where being locked in combat prevents capping an objective so..

GoliothOnline wrote:
Don't Nurglings still count as "Denying" enemy models the ability to cap objectives, IF they are in CC with the said unit trying to cap?

I always lock my opponents up with these little buggers when they get close and try to be sneaky.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess not.. Im gonna have to keep an eye on that then.. I cannot find where being locked in combat prevents capping an objective so..

It would if the Nurglings were scoring.

 Dez wrote:

GoliothOnline wrote:
Don't Nurglings still count as "Denying" enemy models the ability to cap objectives, IF they are in CC with the said unit trying to cap?

I always lock my opponents up with these little buggers when they get close and try to be sneaky.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I guess not.. Im gonna have to keep an eye on that then.. I cannot find where being locked in combat prevents capping an objective so..

It would if the Nurglings were scoring.

do you know the page by chance? in the BRB off by heart that states denial + scoring units that are locked in combat prevent objective capturing?

You'd think Swarms would ignore ID in exchange for the extra wounds from blasts thing.

If they're not scoring, and not denial, can they still get Line Breaker as mentioned earlier?

Nurglings are one of the few things that work well with the Tallyman if you run him.

 Kain wrote:

 evildrcheese wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
That's because it isn't there! The only special rules relating to Swarms are an increased vulnerability to templates, move-through-cover and scoring limitations.

It works extra well because the new models are all stacked up doing piggybacks, so you actually get a fair bit of height out of them. Might be worth checking the height relative to an Aegis and if there's any potential to screen vehicles.

Are swarms still vulnerable to templates? I'm sure when I was playing crons recently I was told try weren't have I been duped?

D

You still take double wounds from blast, ordinance and template weapons.

Dammit. I've been duped. I'll kill those scarab bases much faster next time now.

D