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HQ

Abaddon the Despoiler – 265pts

Troops

15 Chaos Space Marines – 250pts
- Close Combat Weapons x15
- Meltagun x2
- Gift of Mutation
- Lightning Claw

10 Chaos Space Marines – 195pts
- Plasmagun x2
- Combi-Plasma
- Gift of Mutation
- Power Weapon

Fast Attack

5 Raptors – 140pts
- Plasma Gun x2
- Gift of Mutation
- Lightning Claw
- Plasma Pistol

Heavy Support

3x Obliterators – 210pts


Allied Imperial Guard
HQ
Primaris Psyker -70pts

Troops
Infantry Platoon -175pts
- Platoon Command Squad
- Plasma Gun x3
- Infantry Squad
- Infantry Squad
- Special Weapons Squad
- 3x Grenade Launchers

Heavy Support

Vulture Gunship – 155pts
- Punisher Cannons

I've had some pretty successful games with this list, currently at a 6/2/0 W/D/L ratio, last game was against a pretty cheesy Dark Angels list using 10 Deathwing with Belial and the rest of the army hiding behind an ADL with a Darkshroud for 2+ Cover and a Dakka Banner for extra firepower, and scored a draw (although afterwards I realised I had Linebreaker so it should have been a win for me).

Now this list comes to roughly 1450/70 points, and I've got some ideas how to bump it up to 1750/2000.

1: 5x Havocs
- 4x Autocannons
- Aegis Defence Line
- Quad Gun

This gives me adequate Anti-Air fire, although the Vulture isn't that bad at that itself, but would help against tougher flyers such as Storm Ravens, which I've yet to come up against.

2: 3x Obliterators
- Mark of Nurgle

This would give me 6 T5 Obliterators in total, enough to make any army think twice about getting too close.

3: 5x Chosen
- 4x Flamers
- Power Weapon
- Gift of Mutation
- Rhino
- Dirge Casters

Since these guys are Troops thanks to Abaddon, I think they'll be ok at speeding to an objective thanks to the Rhino. Provides good Overwatch fire.

4: 5x Raptors
- 2x Meltaguns
- Lightning Claw
- Plasma Pistol
- Gift of Mutation

Just a copy-and-paste of the unit I currently run. One unit hasn't failed me yet, I suppose it couldn't hurt to add another one?


All comments on this list and what I could do to it are appreciated. If you have any suggestions I haven't mentioned above, then feel free to add them. Perhaps I could free up some points elsewhere to include them.

Thanks for sharing this list I really like it! Go with raptors!

I could take a Raptor unit as described above, and by dropping the Special Weapon Squad that would give me enough points by my calculations for either 2x Obliterators or 10CSM with upgrades on top of that.

Ok, well after some thought, here's a rethink of the list. While I'm a bit reluctant to drop the Guard, here's one that's just pure CSM.

Abaddon the Despoiler – 265pts

Elites

3 Terminators - 136pts
- 2x Single Lightning Claws
- 2x Combi-Plasma
- Reaper Autocannon

Troops

13 Chaos Space Marines – 224pts
- Close Combat Weapons x13
- Meltagun x2
- Gift of Mutation
- Lightning Claw

10 Chaos Space Marines – 195pts
- Plasmagun x2
- Combi-Plasma
- Gift of Mutation
- Power Weapon

10 Chaos Space Marines – 185pts
- Plasmagun x2
- Gift of Mutation
- Power Weapon

Fast Attack

5 Raptors – 150pts
- Meltagun x2
- Gift of Mutation
- Lightning Claw
- Plasma Pistol

5 Raptors – 135pts
- Meltagun x2
- Gift of Mutation
- Lightning Claw

Heavy Support

3x Obliterators – 210pts

By my calcualtions, this comes to around 1490-1500 pts. I lose the suppressive fire of the Vulture, but I gain a proper bodyguard for Abaddon and an extra unit of Raptors, giving me 4 units to Deep Strike and put pressure on the enemy, as well as 33 Power Armoured Chaos Marines charging up the field.

Thoughts?

Really? No comments?

Okay, didn't see this before.

My thoughts on the second list are:
You need to drop the autocannon from the terminators you can only take it if you have 5 in the squad.
No real air defence.
Raptors deep striking would do better with MoN. Also if they are dropping in to melta things they could do with the champion having a melta bomb to allow you to shoot the melta guns and then assault to melta/krak the thing in question.
Abaddon deep striking is putting is keeping him off the board for too long and becomes risky when you do deep strike him. Too wussy and you're too far away to assault the following turn. Too bold and its the mishap table for you - possibly; and you don't want your opponent dropping all thoise points off in a far corner of the board.
Gift of mutation is very random and you are spending quite a lot on it overall.
Putting the 33 CSMs in rhinos would put pressure on another line quicker than move and running them. Running them also makes the special weapons vulnerable to precision shots (snipers and the like).
Obliterators are good but a MoN would give them an insurance policy against more weapons.
At the moment you do not have much which can sit back on an objective, if you find one in your deployment zone. You could consider going back to the IG allies and using the specialist weapon squad or a heavy weapon squad to sit on an objective.

A pretty decent alternative for cheap delivery for Abaddon is to run him in a squad of 20-25 cultists, for a bunch of extra wounds.
In my opinion you should either run three Termis as Termicide, or run them in a squad of five to be effective.

Another thing that I'm thinking is that it might be nice to swap one of the flamers in your CSM CC unit for a flamer since you already have a couple of meltas with your Raptors.
I would also consider splitting the Obilterators into two units and add an extra for 2x2 Obilts.

To save on points I would probably drop the GoMs since they usually are pretty meh for the cost. They can be fun and all but i guess it depends on what you are after with your list!

I like the list overall, pretty similar to my own at that level.

I agree about gift of mutation. While mostly good, you may end up with something that doesn't really help against what you are facing. I would rather use MoN for toughness, even if only on a few select units that you can push forward to capture and hold objectives.

I have MoN on Raptors when possible, and meltabombs for champion if I am using as anti-vehicle strike team.

Another possible change is a drake. I know they are over-used, but at 1500 pts nobody could complain about spam with a single drake. Fast mover and great anti-infantry.

I would also consider VoLW. Maybe an alternate list that includes it, and pay for it by dropping 2-3 marines or some options. The re-roll to hit in 1st round of combat has been very good for me.

Good luck!
-Aeglos

Some random thoughts:

As said already, no autocannon allowed until you pay for 5 terminators. Its stupidly overpriced anyway, 56 points for a single terminator with autocannon when for just over double that at 115 you can get 5 havocs with 4 autocannons.

If you plan to DS all of Abaddon, Terms, 2x raptors and oblits its too much, only leaves 3/8 on the board at the start.

Not sold on 33x CSM. From my experience they get swept and/or run away a lot, unless you give them the fearless icon, but then if you start spending points upgrading them you should look at cult troops..

The oblits need MON.

Too many points on gift of mutation, in my opinion.

Ah, my mistake with the Autocannon. My local meta barely includes any Flyers (I think there's 1 Storm Raven, a couple of Talons and a Vendetta, that's it), if I was to keep the Vulture would it be best fitted with the Autocannon/Hunter Killer loadout to serve as a Flyer deterrent?

Gift of Mutation is just a bit of a gimmick I suppose. I like the chance of getting a little bit extra but looking at the list, that's 50 points spent on such upgrades that, in hindsight aren't as good as I previously imagined. Those points spared could go towards MoN for the Obliterators then I'd imagine.

By dropping the Autocannon (possibly the Terminators too) and the GoMs, this gives me 75 points free, approx 50 after MoN for the Obliterators. I'm still a bit reluctant to take a Heldrake. It's no doubt excellent in-game, but the model's *quite* hideous and a tad expensive. My list was designed towards more casual play (hence the GoM). If I was to drop the Terminators alltogether that would give me another 100 or so points, enough to get a couple of Rhinos and some Cultists (means my IG models won't be condemmed to dust-collecting). Thoughts on this?

 Valkyrie wrote:
Ah, my mistake with the Autocannon. My local meta barely includes any Flyers (I think there's 1 Storm Raven, a couple of Talons and a Vendetta, that's it), if I was to keep the Vulture would it be best fitted with the Autocannon/Hunter Killer loadout to serve as a Flyer deterrent?

Gift of Mutation is just a bit of a gimmick I suppose. I like the chance of getting a little bit extra but looking at the list, that's 50 points spent on such upgrades that, in hindsight aren't as good as I previously imagined. Those points spared could go towards MoN for the Obliterators then I'd imagine.

By dropping the Autocannon (possibly the Terminators too) and the GoMs, this gives me 75 points free, approx 50 after MoN for the Obliterators. I'm still a bit reluctant to take a Heldrake. It's no doubt excellent in-game, but the model's *quite* hideous and a tad expensive. My list was designed towards more casual play (hence the GoM). If I was to drop the Terminators alltogether that would give me another 100 or so points, enough to get a couple of Rhinos and some Cultists (means my IG models won't be condemmed to dust-collecting). Thoughts on this?

I like the idea of keeping 3x Termies with Abaddon but freeing up points with removal of autocannon and GoM. No problem on the drake. The model seems to be a "love/hate" type of thing, and you are right it is expensive.

The MoN on the oblits will still leave you with 57 points to spend. I would go MoN on the raptors, improving survivability on deep strike. Strike them, hit rear armor with Melta/Plasma and hope that the MoN helps them survive at least one more round to do some additional damage. Leaves 27 points to spend. Maybe drop 3 of the CSMs from the 13 man squad with CCW? That will then leave you enough for 2x Rhinos to put CSM squads into and charge to objectives mid-board. One CSM squad stays in rear area to hold home objectives.

Let us know what you decide and how it works out for you.

-Aeglos

Ok, after taking these ideas into consideration here's the new and updated version.

HQ

Abaddon the Despoiler – 265pts

Chaos Sorceror – 100pts
- Mastery Level 2
- Spell Familiar

Troops

13 Chaos Space Marines – 213pts
- Close Combat Weapons x13
- Meltagun x2
- Lightning Claw

10 Chaos Space Marines – 185pts
- Plasmagun x2
- Combi-Plasma
- Power Weapon

10 Chaos Space Marines – 175pts
- Plasmagun x2
- Lightning Claw

Fast Attack

5 Raptors – 155pts
- Meltagun x2
- Lightning Claw
- Plasma Pistol
- Mark of Nurgle

5 Raptors – 155pts
- Meltagun x2
- Lightning Claw
- Plasma Pistol
- Mark of Nurgle

Heavy Support

3x Obliterators – 234pts
- Mark of Nurgle

As you can see I've dropped the Terminators and Gifts of Mutation. This allows me to get Mark of Nurgle for the Obliterators and also to get a Sorceror for Psychic offence/defence, as well as providing a second HQ for the list.

I like it. Let us know how you fare with it.

-Aeglos

Just had the first game with the new list today, 1500pts against Tyranids, who used Tervigons, a Carnifex, Doom and a Trygon backed up by Gaunts.

I ended up losing the game by one point, although personally I believe this was down to the circumstances of the game rather than flaws in the list.

1: Sorceror performed very well, inflicting Weapon Virus* on several units. Very nice to see more guys die to their own Overwatch fire than however many they killed of mine.

*I free-ed up some points to give him MoN.

2: Placement of the models in one of the squads meant I lost both Plasma Gunners to the Doom's large blast attack. Had one of them survived, I could have killed his Trygon, which would have taken Linebacker off him.

3: The Raptors didn't perform as well as I had hoped, mainly as one unit was hugging cover most of the time to avoid Warp Blast fire.

4: The guy I was playing was a bit of a dubious player. There'd be the occasional failed wound that he'd pocket, claim as a success. I also noticed several inconsistencies in his list, such as his Trygon suddenly becoming a Prime when it's his turn to shoot, giving him 6 extra shots, and his Tervigon "suddenly isn't a character" after Abaddon takes 4 wounds off him in a challenge**. After the game I noticed the general attitude towards this guy was that you have to be a bit wary of him, plus he was also quite blessed by Nurgle if you get me.

** His justification for this was that it doesn't say in the Tyranid book, a book that was written in 5th, that the Tervigon is a character. Only when the manager held the book in front of him and pointed it out did he sheepishly agree, allowing Abaddon to stomp his face in.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Just had the first game with the new list today, 1500pts against Tyranids, who used Tervigons, a Carnifex, Doom and a Trygon backed up by Gaunts.

I ended up losing the game by one point, although personally I believe this was down to the circumstances of the game rather than flaws in the list.

1: Sorceror performed very well, inflicting Weapon Virus* on several units. Very nice to see more guys die to their own Overwatch fire than however many they killed of mine.

*I free-ed up some points to give him MoN.

2: Placement of the models in one of the squads meant I lost both Plasma Gunners to the Doom's large blast attack. Had one of them survived, I could have killed his Trygon, which would have taken Linebacker off him.

3: The Raptors didn't perform as well as I had hoped, mainly as one unit was hugging cover most of the time to avoid Warp Blast fire.

4: The guy I was playing was a bit of a dubious player. There'd be the occasional failed wound that he'd pocket, claim as a success. I also noticed several inconsistencies in his list, such as his Trygon suddenly becoming a Prime when it's his turn to shoot, giving him 6 extra shots, and his Tervigon "suddenly isn't a character" after Abaddon takes 4 wounds off him in a challenge**. After the game I noticed the general attitude towards this guy was that you have to be a bit wary of him, plus he was also quite blessed by Nurgle if you get me.

** His justification for this was that it doesn't say in the Tyranid book, a book that was written in 5th, that the Tervigon is a character. Only when the manager held the book in front of him and pointed it out did he sheepishly agree, allowing Abaddon to stomp his face in.

TFG is everywhere. I will have to start describing appropriate people as "Nurgly" when appropriate. 40k players will understand what I mean.

I strongly prefer to play others with printed lists, although this is rare except in official league play.

Sounds like you did pretty well given the circumstances and how new the list was. Congrats.

-Aeglos