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I am wanting to run a Rune Priest attached to a White Scars Command Squad on bikes. I also want the Rune Priest (w/ runic armor for a 2+) to be able to tank small arms fire for the squad while using LoS to delegate str10 and ap2 to one of the Storm Shield equipped vets. In another forum, it was brought to my attention that the Rune Priest does not benefit from the +1 jink save that the White Scars have, and therefore enemy models could use focus fire to single him out.

My questions:

Can Look out Sir! override the focus fire rule?

If not could the RP turboboost in the shooting phase (but not the rest of the unit), and stay in coherency with the rest of the unit in order to recieve a 4+ jink save as well, thereby nullifying focus fire?

Sorry if this is a noob question (reading the book but I was having a hard time deciphering all of it), and thanks for your input in advance.

I believe Look out, Sir is allowed because of the specific wording in the book.

Focus fire states that wounds cannot be allocated to anything but what you're focusing

Look out sir says that when a wound is allocated to your character, if you pass your LOS, you RESOLVE it on the nearest model. Since it does not tell you to re-allocate the wound I believe you may still make a LOS against focus fired wounds.

As for the turbo-boosting - Unlike running, I don't see any wording in the rule-book that says bikes have to turbo-boost as a unit. It would appear as though you CAN turbo boost a single bike in a squad.

It would appear as if both of your solutions would work against this tactic.

Bojazz wrote:
Since it does not tell you to re-allocate the wound I believe you may still make a LOS against focus fired wounds.

" once the Wound has been transferred (or not), no further attempts to reallocate it can be made." (Page 26)

If this came up in a tournament, I would say that Look Out, Sir! overrides the Focus Fire rule. Seems the most reasonable interpretation.

Thank you, dakkanauts, once again your services have proven most valuable. Looks like my bike list is ready to go



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Bojazz wrote:
Since it does not tell you to re-allocate the wound I believe you may still make a LOS against focus fired wounds.

" once the Wound has been transferred (or not), no further attempts to reallocate it can be made." (Page 26)

Are you presenting this as evidence that LoS can or cannot be attempted to mitigate focus fire?

per the same page you are quoting:

"On a roll of a 4+ the Look Out, Sir attempt is successful.
Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character
and resolve the Wound against that model instead."

So all on one page the specific action of using LoS is referred to as:

1.) resolving a Wound
2.) transferring a Wound
3.) reallocating a Wound

Which is it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm inclined to say that "resolving" the Wound takes priority (ok obviously I'm a little biased) because "resolve" is the specific wording used in the bullet points that describes how to use the rule. The sentence that contains both "transferred" and "reallocated" is specific to squads consisting only of characters.

astro_nomicon wrote:
Thank you, dakkanauts, once again your services have proven most valuable. Looks like my bike list is ready to go



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Bojazz wrote:
Since it does not tell you to re-allocate the wound I believe you may still make a LOS against focus fired wounds.

" once the Wound has been transferred (or not), no further attempts to reallocate it can be made." (Page 26)

Are you presenting this as evidence that LoS can or cannot be attempted to mitigate focus fire?

per the same page you are quoting:

"On a roll of a 4+ the Look Out, Sir attempt is successful.
Determine which model in the unit is closest to the character
and resolve the Wound against that model instead."

So all on one page the specific action of using LoS is referred to as:

1.) resolving a Wound
2.) transferring a Wound
3.) reallocating a Wound

Which is it?

It is all 3, as it is referred to as all three of these.

Still pretty grey to me. Seems like one of those situations where the most persistent rules lawyer is going to win. Or if you're not the argumentative type just pick high/low, chunk a d6 and get on with the game lol. 'Til then I'll probably leave it up to a TO or just use turbo boost shenanigans.

Focus fire does not allow you to allocate the wound to another model without that specified cover save. This would include LOS!

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Focus fire does not allow you to allocate the wound to another model without that specified cover save. This would include LOS!

The thing is, you aren't allocating the wound, your opponent is.

Indeed, however with LOS! you are attempting to reallocate the wound to a model with a non-qualifying cover save. This isnt allowed.

LOS allows the wound to be allocated to models out of range or line of sight. Per normal shooting wounds cannot be allocated to models out of range or line of sight, so that sets the premise that LOS allows wounds to be resolved against models that would not otherwise be able to be wounded while still having them allocated to the character.

This of course if just my interpretation, but it is what makes the most sense to me based on what is written AND intended.

Nothing in the focus fire rules state that you cannot LOS a wound away.

Focus fire states that "Your opponent can only allocate wounds to models with a cover save equal to or worse (i.e a higher value) than the value stated."

You can roll LOS! but can only allocate with the restrictions listed. FF is more specific that the normal allocation rules.

LOS is post FF wound allocation.

It is most certainly allowed.

"When a Wound (or unsaved Wound) is allocated to one of your characters, and there is another model from the same unit within 6", he's allowed a look Out, Sir attempt."

So you first Allocate to the Char, this satisfies the FF rule.

Then as a feature of being a Char(IC) you are allowed a LOS.

Plain and simple.

Ermmmmm... it doesn't matter in this case anyway. If he turbo boosts he can't be focussed fired out as he'll have the same jink save. So the first question becomes irrelevant in this case if the answer to the second is yes...

rigeld2 wrote:
Focus fire states that "Your opponent can only allocate wounds to models with a cover save equal to or worse (i.e a higher value) than the value stated."

You can roll LOS! but can only allocate with the restrictions listed. FF is more specific that the normal allocation rules.

I noticed it says "your opponent", rather than "wounds can only be allocated". Surely that indicates that it does not interfere with Look Out, Sir, as it is not your opponent re-allocating but yourself?

Since "your opponent" would be the one receiving Focus Fire, no.

You choose to Focus Fire. Your opponent can only allocate to those with the right cover save.

And the wound is allocated to the RP. (FF conditions met.) The wound is then reallocated using LOS to a legal target for LOS. No different than Precision shots/strikes.

Fragile wrote:
And the wound is allocated to the RP. (FF conditions met.) The wound is then reallocated using LOS to a legal target for LOS. No different than Precision shots/strikes.

Which would be on that fits the cover save restriction from FF. The shooting player declares FF. His opponent can only allocate to certain models. If I declare "FF 5+" you (my opponent) can only allocate wounds to models with a 5+ or worse cover save. If you try to LOS to a model with a 4+ cover save, you are breaking the rules of FF by allocating a wound to an illegal model.

 Happyjew wrote:

Fragile wrote:
And the wound is allocated to the RP. (FF conditions met.) The wound is then reallocated using LOS to a legal target for LOS. No different than Precision shots/strikes.

Which would be on that fits the cover save restriction from FF. The shooting player declares FF. His opponent can only allocate to certain models. If I declare "FF 5+" you (my opponent) can only allocate wounds to models with a 5+ or worse cover save. If you try to LOS to a model with a 4+ cover save, you are breaking the rules of FF by allocating a wound to an illegal model.

Except LOS is not "allocation" of the FF Wound, at no point in the LOS rules nor FAQ does it mention that you are allocating anything.

So if you are not allocating, then, in a group full of characters, you can keep doing LOS until it lands where you want.

As a side question: Earlier someone mentioned you could LOS with models that were out of Line of Sight.

I dont have my book on me, but where is this said at, as I always thought wounds had to come from valid models for shooting wounds. meaning line of sight required.

Just a page # would be great, I'll look it up when I get home.

Page 16, second bullet point under Look Out, Sir!

ok thanks, I'll re-read that section. sounds like we've been doing it wrong locally.

 Happyjew wrote:
So if you are not allocating, then, in a group full of characters, you can keep doing LOS until it lands where you want.

Of course not, no wound has been "allocated" the next closest model(char or not) so the rules for LOS cannot be used again as the premise for LOS is having a wound allocated to that model.

Wrong. The correct answer is no, because the rules for LOS say that the wound cannot be re-allocated again.

 Happyjew wrote:
Wrong. The correct answer is no, because the rules for LOS say that the wound cannot be re-allocated again.

Oh really, so can you make an LOS without having a wound allocated to the model?

The very last sentence of Look Out, Sir says that you cannot attempt to reallocate the wound after you try LOS.

What I'm gathering is that the wound is saved or unsaved for LOS to occur. FF says that models that don't have the same cover save can not allocate the wounds. So the character being fired on will take its saves. If it fails it now has wounds allocated on him. Thats the end of FF, but then a LOS can be made in an attempt to transfer those wounds, if LOS passes, the model close to the character receives the wound, and if they have FNP have the opportunity to roll for FNP

 Happyjew wrote:
The very last sentence of Look Out, Sir says that you cannot attempt to reallocate the wound after you try LOS.

I noticed you didn't answer my question.

That sentence does not stop LOS, it stops all forms of "re-allocation" that may or may not apply. Something which LOS is not.