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Now going with Space Marines... could still use some feedback though!
With the release of the Phoenix Guard models, I'm finding myself caught up in wanting to play pre-heresy EC again, and with the the previews of the new kakophoni marines, I simply cant help but use the Chaos Marine rules.

My question is, how viable would a CSM list be that only utilized pre-heresy equivalent units?

Chaos Lord (Fulgrim)
Chosen (Palatine Blades)
Terminators (Phoenix Guard)
Dreadnoughts (Contemptor)
Noise Marines
Raptors, Vehicles, etc.

With this in mind, I wouldn't be able to use any of the more Chaos specific stuff such as obliterators, cultists, defilers, etc.

Is a list comprising of just those types of units mentioned above viable? Especially when all of it is marked as Slaanesh? And how would you suggest getting around the obvious weapon dilemma? I assume most of the units will need special weapons of some sort in order to be viable, yet the palatine blades and phoenix guard do not come with such options.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 Buttlerthepug wrote:
With the release of the Phoenix Guard models, I'm finding myself caught up in wanting to play pre-heresy EC again, and with the the previews of the new kakophoni marines, I simply cant help but use the Chaos Marine rules.

My question is, how viable would a CSM list be that only utilized pre-heresy equivalent units?

Chaos Lord (Fulgrim)
Chosen (Palatine Blades)
Terminators (Phoenix Guard)
Dreadnoughts (Contemptor)
Noise Marines
Raptors, Vehicles, etc.

With this in mind, I wouldn't be able to use any of the more Chaos specific stuff such as obliterators, cultists, defilers, etc.

Is a list comprising of just those types of units mentioned above viable? Especially when all of it is marked as Slaanesh? And how would you suggest getting around the obvious weapon dilemma? I assume most of the units will need special weapons of some sort in order to be viable, yet the palatine blades and phoenix guard do not come with such options.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Melee chosen are so completely awful that you really, really want to avoid them completely.

Noise marines are out, there was no sonic weapons of that caliber before the fall.

Yes there was. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Games_Day_Preview_Two.html

At that point they had technically already fallen... in fact, the creation of those weapons was sort of the breaking point for them in the Fulgrim novel.

I'm still fine with using them however, since at the very least they will still fit in with the rest of the pre-heresy models.

So I take it there's literally no way to use the Palatine Blades effectively as chosen? Any other suggestions for how to use them then?

 Blitza da warboy wrote:
Yes there was. http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/Games_Day_Preview_Two.html

Which were first used during the Drop Site Massacre the beginning of the heresy, although you could count it earlier if when you count when the Composer who created them when it summoned vast amounts of slaaneshi daemons..

But I suppose it could work, run heavy noise marines with blast masters as your base units as they are very good.

So I take it there's literally no way to use the Palatine Blades effectively as chosen? Any other suggestions for how to use them then?

There is none, you'll be more expensive then a terminator but worse, you'll have no method of getting them there effectively, and overall it's just a bad idea sadly enough.

What you could do is use C:SM and use vanguard vets as your palatine blades, only downside is you wouldnt be able to use noise marines...

 sierra 1247 wrote:
What you could do is use C:SM and use vanguard vets as your palatine blades, only downside is you wouldnt be able to use noise marines...

Actually it might be better to use Honour guard, 2+ saves with PW are actually far more cost effective then chosen, and they fulfill their role far better as guards for the Leader.

C:SM is forced to pick a chapter now though, right? That was my initial idea, but it turned me off knowing that I'd be playing EC with another chapter's rules.

I'm actually fine without using Noise Marines though, as I can always switch back and forth between the two codexes if need be.

 Buttlerthepug wrote:
C:SM is forced to pick a chapter now though, right? That was my initial idea, but it turned me off knowing that I'd be playing EC with another chapter's rules.

I'm actually fine without using Noise Marines though, as I can always switch back and forth between the two codexes if need be.

Black Templar rules fit Pre-Heresy EC very much so though.

You'll get rending challenges befitting EC's emphasis on personal duels, as well as being like the old palantine blades.

You'll also get Crusade within your squads, to help mobility.

You'll be prohibited from Librarians, but thats okay because Pre-heresy didn't have that many.

Could just do heresy-era. The Emperors Children had Noise Marines at the siege of Terra.

I'd say the stats of a Daemon Prince would fit Fulgrim better, a Chaos Lord doesn't really compare to a Primarch. Everything else seems to work.

Looking at the SM book, I'm sort of leaning towards that now. Seems like I could make the options work much more.

I actually want to use the Heresy book's rules as well, but from what I gather, they're fairly over-powered, so I won't use it too often.

The only thing really proving to be difficult is the terminators.
The Phoenix Guard models only have glaives, and I'm sure SM Terminators would need some kind of ranged weaponry to be useful, unless there's a way to run them straight melee in a successful manner? Thoughts?

Edit: Also, how good are relic blades? It seems like if I were to use the Palatine Blades as Honor Guard, the relic blades would be much more fitting.

 Buttlerthepug wrote:
Looking at the SM book, I'm sort of leaning towards that now. Seems like I could make the options work much more.

I actually want to use the Heresy book's rules as well, but from what I gather, they're fairly over-powered, so I won't use it too often.

The only thing really proving to be difficult is the terminators.
The Phoenix Guard models only have glaives, and I'm sure SM Terminators would need some kind of ranged weaponry to be useful, unless there's a way to run them straight melee in a successful manner? Thoughts?

Edit: Also, how good are relic blades? It seems like if I were to use the Palatine Blades as Honor Guard, the relic blades would be much more fitting.

The heresy isn't OP unless the lord of war slot is used, I honestly have no clue why people keep saying this.

the Lord of War slot is reserved for Super Heavies, Primarchs, etc., right? Can't say I'd use them without permission anyways (and never the Super Heavies... likely just Fulgrim).

However, it doesn't hurt to have an army I can use across 3 different books. But for now I'll probably just give it a whirl with the SM book.

And come to think of it, even in the Heresy book, there's no rules for Phoenix Guard, so no matter what I'm at a loss for how to run them, unless there's a way to effectively run melee Terminators.

 Buttlerthepug wrote:
the Lord of War slot is reserved for Super Heavies, Primarchs, etc., right? Can't say I'd use them without permission anyways (and never the Super Heavies... likely just Fulgrim).

However, it doesn't hurt to have an army I can use across 3 different books. But for now I'll probably just give it a whirl with the SM book.

And come to think of it, even in the Heresy book, there's no rules for Phoenix Guard, so no matter what I'm at a loss for how to run them, unless there's a way to effectively run melee Terminators.

Phoenix Guard are added in Book 2, thus you'll have to run them standard otherwise.

When is that book set to release?