Jet bikes - am I missing something?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Khaine's Wrath**

There is a SHED load of hype on here about jet bikes.... I don't get it? Why do people think they're so good?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Surely the eldar have better units than jet bikes for the points?

**Thud**

They are dirt cheap, easy to hide, are scoring, and can move 48" per turn.

**PredaKhaine**

Jetbikes have ridiculous speed, a good coversave, T4 (good for eldar) twin linked shots with semi rending and 1 in 3 can upgrade to a shuriken cannon and a 3+.

They are one of the best troops choices in the game imo.

3 jetbikes is 51 points (iirc) - they can take an objective on turn five from the other side of the board.

They're evil in the 'relic' mission. Move 12" or so and pick up the relic at the end of the movement phase. Then start moving it away in the assault phase. I've done that before on turn one.
By turn three, I've had the relic in my deployment zone surrounded by wraithguard.

Larger squads do it as well, but get more shooting.

**Khaine's Wrath**

Interesting.... I have 142 points of scorpions that people are telling me are awful, so I'm trying to find what to spend it on, 1 option is a 4th wave serpent, I'm also considering jet bikes, maybe with a warlock...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
BUT, do I go two squads of three, or I of 4-5 with a warlock?

**PredaKhaine**

Scorpions are good, but they're situational. If you're going up against other xeno armies they can be useful - against marines they won't do a whole lot without support which kinda ruins the infiltrate.

I'd have a decent size squad with no warlock.

You could get 6-7 jetbikes and 2 shuriken cannons - they should be a lot more versatile. I don't bother with warlocks as they're not cutting it for me at the mo.

Getting the shuriken cannons in increases the range the squad can kill at, does rear armour on vehicles if one presents itself. Most of your guns are twinlinked with semi rending - just don't shoot them at corbulo and they'll do you well

**Khaine's Wrath**

Would you run the bikes a desperate squads, or one big one?

**PredaKhaine**

I'd normally run a bigger one - 3 man min squads are good for late game objective grabbing but not much else - you won't kill a lot with them.
A big squad will hurt things.

**Khaine's Wrath**

I can fit a single squad of 6 in with two cannons if I drop the scorpions.... So you reckon this unit will be much nicer? I love shuriken weaponry now, makes them real nasty!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And is the warlock not worth it for conceal?

**PredaKhaine**

You'll get more use out of them in a wider variety of situations.
They're tougher and faster with much better shooting.

Edit: I wouldn't take the warlock - I can't remember if conceal stacks with jink (which may be worth it if it does) but you get a 5+ jink and more guns without him.
I wouldn't but YMMV.

Having said that - Scorpions are still the best looking unit in the army. I'm thinking of sticking a spirit seer with mine as that may make them better (especially if I can get the +1 armour save...)

**Khaine's Wrath**

They get killed far to easy for me, without dealing enough damage! Only the exarch with his claw. And their cover saves just don't cut it. I don't have the points to give them a spirit seer, and as I run the iyanden codex I don't get conceal for spiritseers anyway!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And jink states they gain a cover save, and conceal states they gain shrouded, which improves cover saves by 2. So I'd say the definitely stack.

**shamikebab**

Conceal stacks with jink, I've taken a warlock sometimes but generally I just fly them vanilla either 6 with 2 SC or 9 with 3 SC, usually a Farseer in one squad.

I usually take at least 2 squads, they are one of the best troop choices in the game, cheap, tough and do a lot of damage. Just watch out for enemy Dark Reapers!

**PredaKhaine**

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
They get killed far to easy for me, without dealing enough damage! Only the exarch with his claw. And their cover saves just don't cut it. I don't have the points to give them a spirit seer, and as I run the iyanden codex I don't get conceal for spiritseers anyway!

I won't run mine again without a spirit seer. IME they even get beaten up by marine tac squads. The exarch can't do everything for the squad. I'm hoping to get a couple of good rolls next time I try them.
Cause they look awesome.

Jetbikes are just better.

**Khaine's Wrath**

Jet bikes it is. I have 1 squad of 6 at the mo, just because they seem more hard hitting, but I am debating 2 squads of 3? Any thoughts/opinions?

**AlmightyWalrus**

Think of bikes this way: they're 3 points more than a Tactical Marine but get Cover Saves when they move, can move 48" per turn and get a pseudo-rending weapon. They also get to JSJ, but lose ATSKNF (and grenades?). The 48" move is the real deal; it lets you start your troops in reserves and still move them wherever you need them. The opponent really has to play around the fact that you can plop them down on any objective you please.

**Khaine's Wrath**

JSJ?

**labmouse42**

Thud wrote:
They are dirt cheap, easy to hide, are scoring, and can move 48" per turn.

These features combine to make them amazing scoring units.

In many tournaments you generally know when the last turn is. They will call time and say "15 minutes left in the round, finish up your turns!" If you have the final turn, then these jetbikes can be the difference between winning and losing.

**PredaKhaine**

Khaine's Wrath wrote:
JSJ?

Jump Shoot Jump.

So move in the movement phase, shoot in the shooting phase and then move away again in the assault phase.

**Araenion**

A squad of 6 is nice for bodyguarding a Farseer(recently I've found the Mantleseer is too gimmicky), while 2 squads of 3 have a greater scoring potential. Also, their leadership 8 hurts them more when they're together because you can't hide them as effectively. So if I was running just 6 jetbikes without a Farseer, I'd take 2 squads of 3. Farseer mitigates their biggest weakness, which is LD 8.

As for the warlock, they're nice in a squad of 9 with a Farseer. They will usually die to AP3 shooting very easily, but with a 3+ cover save, they are sturdy against even such weapons. And against Tau, they have the mobility to stay out of the cover-ignoring AP2 pie-plates except in a few cases and even then they're hardly going to be focused down as there are bigger perceived threats on the board.

**schadenfreude**

51 or 61 points both a great.

They are durable for a 51 point unit. That being said don't stick them somewhere you wouldn't stick 4 dire avengers or 7 guardians. They are going to be a high priority target especially if you are light on troops or every other troop choice is safe inside a wave serpent.

**Khaine's Wrath**

Sounds good, I've written 2 squads of 3 in with a Cannon each!

**pantsonhead**

The math on jetbikes is pretty interesting.

Obviously they have a bunch of utility as last-minute scorers, Farseer bunkers, etc., but they (a little surprisingly) turn out to be pretty good at shooting and taking hits.

Having twin-linked guns makes them competitive with DAs for cost in shooting, on average. Jetbikes inflict .105 Shuriken Catapult hits per point. DAs inflict .103 hits per point. DAs of course have a longer range, but the Jetbikes can move 12" before shooting instead of 6". DAs /do/ have the option of running before or after shooting, but Jetbikes can always move 2d6 after shooting.

With the upgrade, a Jetbike can score .074 Shuriken Cannon hits per point. This will only sometimes be worthwhile for the extra strength, but the extra range remains valuable.

When shot /at/, Jetbikes are significantly more durable than DAs against many kinds of weapons for cost. Each Bolter hit costs Jetbikes about 2.83 points while costing DAs about 4.33 points. Obviously Jetbikes are better against Heavy Bolters. Against high-strength AP3 weapons, Jetbikes with a 5++ are still about 13% more resilient per point than DAs outside of cover. Of course Jetbikes are countered by AP3 Ignores Cover.

Jetbikes also inflict about 15% more hits per point on the charge than DAs. Although they don't have grenades, they have a much longer threat range.

They're a phenomenal unit and are as good or better than DAs at DAs' job while having much more mobility. Their big drawback is that they can't take a Serpent.

**Belly**

pantsonhead wrote:
Their big drawback is that they can't take a Serpent.

This. I love to take jetbikes, but I cannot justify more than a single 3 man squad at the moment. They win me so many games through stealing/contesting objectives, but I cannot for the life of me justify ditching a serpent for more. Maybe I should just buy more and test them in a larger squad.

**Vineheart01**

seriously? 3 are 51pts? wow....just further enhances my dislike of ork warbikers 25pts a pop lol. Rancid in comparison

**MrEconomics**

If you want to see good examples of how Jetbikes work in a diversified Eldar army, take a look at Reecius' Eldar battle reports.

**Dunklezahn**

I personally don't go with 3 man squads, they are just too fragile. For 200 and change points you can get 9 w/ 3 Cannons and a Warlock. The unit outputs a lot of firepower, can be wherever you need them, has a 3+ cover 3 turns out of 4 because iof conceal and 1 game in 6 trades that for wearing terminator armour (Thank you protect power)

Wave Serpents are awesome but I'd rather be packing more of these bad boys if I was looking for the "best" troops for my points.

**Nakor The BlueRider**

Eldar jetbikes are stupidly under costed. 17 pts ppm for T4, +3Sv, Jink, Rending shots, JSJ, Warlock upgrade 48'' movement. (12 + 36 Turbo.)

Compared to other factions bikes/Jetbikes Eldar ones are clearly the best.

How to use them? 3-5 man late game objective grabbers works very well. Or put IC in there and use them as a mobile buffing unit/dakka things dead unit. The threat range of the unit is pretty insane.

**Dessorag**

Jetbikes are infantry, but the model itself is about 4 inches long, and my custom cannon mount sticks out further. Because of this you do need to inform you opponent how to measure to them. Personally I use "nuts to nuts" or "bike center to base" if you prefer. As a result you end up with a lot of extra plastic getting in your way of a 12" range.

Result: Cannons are wonderful. You can get more shots while hiding farther out of range. You trade twin linking for 3 longer range shots (wash on hits) and wound on a 2+ (bonus).

Something to watch is their offensive power is lower by squad size. My squads of 6 (with 2 cannons) kill about 3 marines a turn (1-4 based on saves so far). My similar pointed guardian blob averages about 6 without a heavy weapon. So they hit well and move, but they don't have as good chance to straight cripple a marine squad. They have to make multiple hit and run attacks to be maximally affective on offense. Keep them supported.

**labmouse42**

Dessorag wrote:
Jetbikes are infantry, but the model itself is about 4 inches long

I thought that you measured from the bike base, and not the bike itself for all purposes.

Am I wrong?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

pantsonhead wrote:
The math on jetbikes is pretty interesting..

Point for point, they are slightly less Dakka than avengers, but are much more durable point for point.

The biggest problem I see with bikes is footprint. They are very big models. Even if your measuring form the base and not the model, its hard to get that many models within 12" range.

**HawaiiMatt**

What do you think the viability of massed bikes? ~like 4 or 5 units of 9 with cannons?
Still keeping 1 or 2 infantry for objectives bikes can't get to.

-Matt

**Skinnereal**

labmouse42 wrote:
Dessorag wrote:
Jetbikes are infantry, but the model itself is about 4 inches long
I thought that you measured from the bike base, and not the bike itself for all purposes.

Am I wrong?

Measure from anywhere your opponent agrees, as long as you measure to and from the same point.
I often go from the side of the round base, as you place the model along the ruler.

The biggest problem I see with bikes is footprint. They are very big models. Even if your measuring form the base and not the model, its hard to get that many models within 12" range.

They are big, and hard to hide.
When lining up for a bout of shooting, the line stretches out quite a way.