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Just wanted to see what you guys thought about the old and ever popular Mechanized IG list that has seemed to dissapear with the release of 6th edition. Earlier today I was able to play a medium point game with a buddies army of Steel Legion as he brought them by and since I do miss playing them, had the need to take them for a spin! Facing off against a Tau list with x2 Riptides with Ion Accelerators, lots of Firewarriors, a Hammerhead with Longstrike, Skyray, Pathfinders, Kroot screen and an Aegis Defence Line. I took the following:

-CCS with x3 Grenade Launchers and Chimera
-x5 Veteran squads with x2 Melta and x1 Flamer and a Chimera
-x1 Vendetta
-x2 Leman Russ Exterminators with Heavy Bolter Sponsons
-x1 Manticore

With this list I absolutely WRECKED this pretty scary Tau army. Getting the first turn my Manticore slaughtered untold numbers of Firewarriors, both Exterminators brought down Longstrike and my Chimeras combined took out a Riptide in a single turn (lots of wounds plus some bad rolling by my opponent). Now in regards to 6th edition I wanted to know, why has this list gone away? With so many Chimeras (a friend of mine as a list with naked Vets in Chimeras so you can spam even more since they have Krak Grenades) you get a solid firebase, 12 armor (which is not to shabby), ability to fire Heavy Weapons out of the top hatch for extra firepower if needed and the available speed in moving across the table.

With this thread I want to gather as much tactical data for a Mechanized Imperial Guard list as I feel that is still a very competitive army and will cause fits in this new infantry heavy meta for many armies. Fellow IG commanders and other faction leaders feel free to post any tactical advantages, disadvantages, lists, support options that would tie into this thread, lets have a great discussion, debate ect. about one of (IMO) the most underrated lists in the game! I shall start with a brief summary of the Leman Russ Variants:

Leman Russ Tanks for Mech Lists:

The Ratings are ranked anyone from 1-5, one being the worst and five being the best, This is my personal opinion based on playing this list in the past and seeing results in more recent games. Please note that I am not saying ANY of these tanks are bad, just IMO how they fit in with a Mech IG army list. If you feel I am wrong in how these tanks fit in the role for a Mechanized Imperial Guard army, feel free to state your reasons, that is whole reason for this thread!)

Leman Russ Battle Tank:
-Rating: 2
-Summary: The good old fashioned and reliable Leman Russ. Good Strength and Good Ap with decent anti infantry and armor capabilites. Nothing flashy about this tank and in regards to a Mech list it may be an effective and cheap way to give you some added punch for any medium to light armor you may come across or to help your Multi-lasers and Heavy Bolters clear away infantry. However that being said there are better tanks suited for those roles as I will mention below.

Leman Russ Vanquisher:
-Rating: 4
-Summary: A cheap great anti-armor vehicle that fills the role that a Mech IG list will be lacking, long range anti-armor support. With your Chimeras focused on clearing away infantry and light armor, the Vanquisher allows you to bring down the random Land Raider, Hammerhead or even enemy Leman Russes with relative ease (Pask makes this much better). However as mentioned this is a very infantry heavy edition, meaning that in some games it may have very limited or no primary targets to target at all which reduces its effectiveness significantly.

Leman Russ Eradicator:
-Rating: 3
-Summary: This is my FAVORITE tank of this edition as it takes away what many fellow players (especially anyone not wearing power armor) rely on to see them through the battle, cover saves. With decent range and the semi-reliability of a large blast template the Eradicator will do a great job at clearing any Aegis Defence line armies that you come across. However take into account that this can be accomplished much better (potentially) by the Manticore. Being the same points cost base however I prefer the Eradicator for the 14 Front armor and the ability to maunever over the greater firepower. (Not saying the Manticore is bad, again this is personal preference). Gets a 3 because of its anti-cover stripping ability, maneuverability and high toughness when compared to other vehicles that potentiall fit the role (artillery).

Leman Russ Demolisher:
-Rating: 5
-Summary: The mighty and scary Demolisher whose cannon can wreck literally anything in the game it comes across. Usually for alot of standard gunline IG armies the Demolishers glaring weakness is range, not so in the case of a Mechanized IG army. With a Mech list you get speed and the maneuverability that is severly lacking for many gunline IG armies making the Demolisher a perfect fit for this army as it can move up with your army and provide fire support. Every tried the "wall tactic" with x5 Demolishers with your Chimeras hiding behind them? With its S10 cannon it gives you the reliability of handling literally any target it comes across that your Chimeras cant handle and with a 14 front armor and 13 side, it can shrug off all but the most potent of anti-armor weapons. It is scored the highest because of its middle of the road points cost base, high strength template weapon and the fact its biggest weakness is neutralized when played in a Mech list.

Leman Russ Punisher:
-Rating:2
-Summary: With Pask and Heavy Bolter side sponsons you get one of the scariest gunboats imagineable but one of the more expensive in points in the IG arsenel, especially if a you have a Primaris Psyker or Librarian nearby to give it twin linked! This is one of my favorite tanks in the game, however in the overall scheme of a Mechanized list I rated it so low for the reason that with all your Chimeras and Vets or Platoons you should already have good if not great anti-infantry capability. That being said this is an infantry heavy edition so the extra anti-infantry capabilty may be required, but in regards to fielding a Mech list against a "balanced field of opponents" is why its so low. And even though it is great vs light armored flyers (have done this its hilarious ) its low strength and higher points cost is why its so low in regards to the ratings.

Leman Russ Exterminator:
-Rating: 4
-Summary: Generally overlooked for many of the other variants the Exterminator to me (like the Eradicator) I feel is underused and underappreciated. First of all it comes built in with one of the better counters to an IG players weakness, Twin Linked! And with a four shot autocannon that comes in very handy indeed. The Exterminator has a wide range of targets ranging from infantry, monstrous creatures to medium armor and even flyers! Combine it with a certain loadout of sponsons or hull weapon and you have a very flexible tank that can do a variety of roles. In regards to a Mech list this is a cheap tank that could easily fullfill the roles that Mech list may be lacking which is long range and anti-vehicle capability, It is rated so high due to its level of flexibility and built in Twin Linked Autocannons and for its cheap points cost.

Leman Russ Executioner:
-Rating: 3
-Summary: A very popular tank amongst IG players for many reasons, one of them primarily being a 3 shot Plasma Cannon that does not "Get Hot" and strip away hull points! This tank much like the Exterminator, is a flexible tank that fills the role that many standard Mech IG lists may lack. It has a good strength and ap weapon, its a template and there is no worry of stripping hull points off of it! The only thing it lacks against is heavy armor but thats what melta vets are for! It is only rated a 3 because of its points cost, which gets even higher if you try to add Pask or sponsons or both to it!

Couple of points:
1. Primaris Psyker can't take divination so can't give your tank twin linked with prescience from him.
2. You have failed to mention that Ordnance Rus have BS 1 when firing their heavy bolters/sponson weapons which is a big down side to the standard Battle Tank (i'd rank it as 1 now - the worst) and a nerf to Demolishers. The Eradicator isn't Ordnance though so it can still fire its Bolters on BS 3.

Where is that rule on the ordnance I was trying to find it?

 riverhawks32 wrote:
Where is that rule on the ordnance I was trying to find it?

At work atm but it's under the vehicle firing section bottom right of the page it says "Vehicles and Ordnance weapons".

 riverhawks32 wrote:
Where is that rule on the ordnance I was trying to find it?

Go in the rule book and look up ordnance. If you dont find it go under the vehicles and firing with them. It should be at the bottom of the page. Ordnance russes have to snap fire all other weapons.

pg 71 bottom right hand corner BRB

When the FAQ came out it did alot of changes to the Leman Russ tanks.

Ordnance rules state that the gun can fire at BS if the vehicle didn't move. FAQ says LR and varients are considered heavy vehicles and fire as if they didnt move. However, if you fire an ordnance weapon, all other weapons snap fire (look up snap fire rules). Heavy weapons were not punished, so, you can move 6 inches (no more flat out though, who used that anyway), and as long as the weapons are heavy, you can fire them all at BS.

No more lumbering behomoth rule.

I've had a lot of luck using Banes Wolves. I don't see them mentioned much in the forums. I see a lot of Hellhounds, but to me the 2+ wounding and ap3 is better than torrent and potential light vehicle destruction. Turn one I usually hang back far enough that they stay relatively safe and once the enemy has moved close enough I rush them. I can usually wipe a squad per vehicle due to the two flamer templates, especially if they just came out of a destroyed vehicle. As long as you have higher priority targets they usually last a few turns. They also help to support chimera vets against tyranid and ork assaults. Although armies that bring Aegis defense lines tend to view them as high priority targets.

I had had a lot of success with my Mech IG as of late. Being limited on models, I normally run 2-4 vet squads with a 1-3 ratio of melta to plasma. I always run a lord commissar because A. He is a cheap HQ and B. I can hide him in vet squads. I also run a Primaris Psyker. 2d6 lightning shots have been overwhelmingly helpful with aircraft and infantry.

On the subject of tanks, double Demolishers all day every day. I have yet to find a ground target that doesn't at least shy away from 2 demolisher rounds.

I have also been running small ally units to shore up weaknesses in my own lists. Biker marines have work really well because of their speed, access to grav guns and they come with the super hammer chapter master. I have also ran BA assault marines with a jumpack librarian. This gives my force a counter charge option, access to excellent deep striking meltas and divination on a unit that can keep up with all the tanks.

I agree, mech IG is far from dead. We still have options, and with the meta swinging more and more to anti infantry and MCs, no one expects to see massed tanks.

Plus, it looks awesome.

Good point about the Primaris Psyker, I had heard that from my friend (said IG player) but never tried it, will be sure to warn him of that! And in regards to the Sponsons on the vehicles I made the ratings in mind with sponsons as a side note so if I failed to mention them effectively that's my bad!

In regards to Hellhound variants some very good points were made in regards to the Hellhound and Banewolf, however I think the Devil Dog is quite a good fit as well, as it provides some great close range armor especially if you add hull mounted Multi-Meltas. Also they are very good multi-role units if you give them hull Heavy Flamers since they do very well vs high armor save targets (have watched one snipe a squad of terminators once!).

A tactic that was already mentioned by "Urion" can be utilized by many other support units as well. You form a wall of Chimeras, have the nastier stuff hiding behind them. Then when your close enough to the enemy the Chimeras open "lanes" in the wall where your support units zoom up and deliver they payloads, this also works well with a "Wall" of Leman Russes, it works great!

In regards to allies there are multiple good choices for IG that could accent an already decently nasty list. For example:

-Farseer
*w/ Jetbike, Mantle of the Laughing God, Singing Spear

-x5 Dire Avengers
-Waveserpend
*w/ TL-Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannons, Holofields

-x5 Dire Avengers
-Waveserpend
*w/ TL-Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannons, Holofields

This is 580pts of pure nastiness to add on to an already nasty Mech IG list. There are so many different variants that you can do that I am already considering building multiple 500-600 point allied detachments to field with my Steel Legion or Elysians. Lots of good stuff guys lets keep this thread going!

 martin74 wrote:
When the FAQ came out it did alot of changes to the Leman Russ tanks.

Ordnance rules state that the gun can fire at BS if the vehicle didn't move. FAQ says LR and varients are considered heavy vehicles and fire as if they didnt move. However, if you fire an ordnance weapon, all other weapons snap fire (look up snap fire rules). Heavy weapons were not punished, so, you can move 6 inches (no more flat out though, who used that anyway), and as long as the weapons are heavy, you can fire them all at BS.

No more lumbering behomoth rule.

I dont have my rule book on me but im pretty sure vehicles could move and fire ordnance normally. Last edition a vehicle with ordnance had to sit still in order to shoot it. I could be wrrong, anyone verify this?

 Happygrunt wrote:

On the subject of tanks, double Demolishers all day every day. I have yet to find a ground target that doesn't at least shy away from 2 demolisher rounds.

This times a million.
Demolishers can control a large section of the board on their own. Supported they dominate.

While I agree with some of your points about Leman Russ Tanks, I'm not sold on some others. The vanquisher is just not reliable enough to kill enemy armour at range. The only time I would use one would be with the co-axial heavy stubber, from armoured battlegroup. The Executioner, in my opinion is the best tank of the lot. It absolutely demolishes EVERYTHING it shoots at, be it light or heavy infantry, monstrous creatures, and light to medium armour. The punisher, while not the most efficient use of points, is still useful, in that it provides mobile fire support, and weight of fire that mech armies typically lack. I personally use mine to finish off weakened units, and in that role, it excels. Other than that, I think you've covered the rest.

Personally, I have been running a mech list, centred around Leman Russ tanks to great success in the local tournament scene, creating a virtually impenetrable fire base, and marching up the board with impunity. I support my tanks with chimera-mounted veterans and command squads, with a variety of melta, flamer and plasma weapons. I then use vendettas to control the airspace, destroy enemy armour, and to drop troops onto objectives. This is my list:

HQ: CCS with 4 plasma gunners in a chimera (ml/hf)

Elites: Marbo

Troops: Veterans, with 3 meltas and demolitions, in a chimera (ml/hf)

Troops: Veterans, with 3 meltas and demolitions, in a chimera (ml/hf)

Troops: Infantry Platoon; PCS with 4 flamers in a chimera, (ml/hf)
infantry squad, flamer,
infantry squad, flamer
(they go in vendettas)

Fast: Vendetta

Fast: Vendetta

Heavy: a squad of 2 LR demolishers, with hull heavy flamers

Heavy: LR punisher with hull & sponson bolters

Heavy: LR executioner with hull las and sponson plas


and that's about it; it has durability, firepower and mobility, and in the right hands is quite deadly.

I don't think that attempting to create a centralized general thread for something like mech guard, and then giving your personal ratings in the OP, is the way to go about something like this. Your opinions are not the core of mech guard tactica.

 Talore wrote:
I don't think that attempting to create a centralized general thread for something like mech guard, and then giving your personal ratings in the OP, is the way to go about something like this. Your opinions are not the core of mech guard tactica.

They are not the core of Mech Guard tactica however you are missing the point. The objective of this thread is to discuss ways of winning, constructing and utilizing a Mechanized Imperial Guard list to the best of its ability possible. I was not trying to force my opinion on anyone, merely posting based on my experiences what I have found to work and how well I have found the variety of Leman Russ variants to work in a Mech IG army.

Which brings me back to the point of this thread, to post ideas, debate about said ideas and to bring different styles of this army so that other players who are interested in or already run this kind of list can try it out. I focused on Mech IG because nearly EVERY Imperial Guard player I have stumbled across is spamming infantry, Manticores or other Artillery, Heavy Weapon Teams and an Aegis Defence Line. You may not agree how I am going about it, however I am not doing this to say "you should go with my ideas" and force my opinion on others but to offer some ideas and to open the thread to others who have different views and stratagems.

 undead flesh addict wrote:
Personally, I have been running a mech list, centred around Leman Russ tanks to great success in the local tournament scene, creating a virtually impenetrable fire base, and marching up the board with impunity. I support my tanks with chimera-mounted veterans and command squads, with a variety of melta, flamer and plasma weapons. I then use vendettas to control the airspace, destroy enemy armour, and to drop troops onto objectives. This is my list:

Troops: Infantry Platoon; PCS with 4 flamers in a chimera, (ml/hf)
infantry squad, flamer,
infantry squad, flamer
(they go in vendettas)

Fast: Vendetta

Fast: Vendetta

You make several good points man and you bring up a particular GREAT point with your list. Who says Mechanized lists need to run Vets as their troops? I really like the way you utilize your standard platoon guys as it creates cheap objective takers for your army that have the potential to bring some hurt to infantry camping on objectives. I want to throw something else out there to that I have found quite effective:

-Special Weapons Squad
*w/ x3 Demo Charges

Put these guys in a Valk or Vendetta and watch your opponents jaws drop as 6 Guardsmen jump out and toss x3 nasty blast templates on his death star. Did this against a Space Wolf player and his decked out Thunderwolf Cavalry squad and wiped them all out in a single turn (except his lord who suffered two wounds). And its relatively cheap when it comes to points cost (only thirty "or so" points more expensive then Marbo) so if they die you don't lose much and almost always makes its points back.

 tankboy145 wrote:

 martin74 wrote:
When the FAQ came out it did alot of changes to the Leman Russ tanks.

Ordnance rules state that the gun can fire at BS if the vehicle didn't move. FAQ says LR and varients are considered heavy vehicles and fire as if they didnt move. However, if you fire an ordnance weapon, all other weapons snap fire (look up snap fire rules). Heavy weapons were not punished, so, you can move 6 inches (no more flat out though, who used that anyway), and as long as the weapons are heavy, you can fire them all at BS.

No more lumbering behomoth rule.

I dont have my rule book on me but im pretty sure vehicles could move and fire ordnance normally. Last edition a vehicle with ordnance had to sit still in order to shoot it. I could be wrrong, anyone verify this?

pg 71 bottom right hand corner BRB

While I'll admit dropping suicide units out the back of my aircraft is always fun, I find it compromises your ability for late game objective grabbing, as while you most likely will make your points back, it will cost you an objective at the end of the game.

As an aside, what do you guys think of the ordinance battery as part of a mech IG list? I have recently bought a basilisk, and while I tried a squad of 2 to great success with the armoured battlegroup list, I haven't yet used them in the codex IG list. Thoughts?

Also, that PCS with the flamers in a chimera does wonders for me, and is excellent for guarding my flanks.

If you spam chimeras however you do not have to worry about late game objective grabbing as you use them to move towards objectives with, as you mentioned earlier, forming a wall with your Leman Russ variants allowing you to focus on bringing as much damage to your opponent as possible to affect incoming fire you may be facing. In regards of taking artillery with a Mech list it can be very helpful as it can provide fire support while your army moves forwards, I have had a lot of success with Manticores and Medusas and never have fielded the Basalisk due to its range constrictions so I am not sure about that, but if you intend for it to sit back and bombard the enemy then I don't see an issue.

What I can say is that the with the Manticores and Medusas you bring to the table two aspects that can greatly enhance your army. The Manticore works great in this infantry heavy edition, especially against Tau, Other IG and Green Tide lists who love to sit behind their Aegis Defence Line or spam an ungodly number of infantry. The Medusa works pretty well in this role as well but can also give you some much needed anti-armor with is bastion breacher shells.

Funny you mention the x4 flamer squad as with Nids rumored to be the next book I could see this becoming commonplace, that and Heavy Flamer hull mounts on our vehicles .

I've recently converted to hull heavy flamers on my chimeras and haven't looked back since.

About the chimeras though, I am always suprised if they live to turn 5, even with protection from the russes. They are definitely are good at taking objectives late game, however I have snatched many a game from the jaws of defeat, due to cheap scoring units in vendettas.

I just don't have the points to spam chimeras with meaningful units inside, without skimping on my more than 1000 or so points spent on russes and vendettas.

The problem with my list, is that is completely lacks any long range firepower, as all of my guns are brought to bear against enemy units approaching my lines. My vendettas can shoot down enemies at range, but only come in turn 2 at the earliest

 gmaleron wrote:
-CCS with x3 Grenade Launchers and Chimera

No. Grenade launchers are utterly useless. Never take them outside of a joke list.

-x5 Veteran squads with x2 Melta and x1 Flamer and a Chimera

No. Never mix special weapons, vets get 3x melta or 3x plasma, anything else is a waste of a perfectly good unit.

The Exterminator has a wide range of targets ranging from infantry, monstrous creatures to medium armor and even flyers! Combine it with a certain loadout of sponsons or hull weapon and you have a very flexible tank that can do a variety of roles.

The problem is that while it can attempt to roll dice against a lot of things it isn't actually good at any of them. STR 7 AP 4 is borderline worthless against most vehicles and MCs, and a complete joke against flyers. Meanwhile it doesn't have the AP to deal with elite infantry, and is kind of lacking in volume of fire against hordes. So what you're left with is a tank that's decent at killing fire warriors but not much else. Pretty much no matter what you shoot at with one you're going to wish you'd taken one of the other options.

 urion wrote:
I see a lot of Hellhounds, but to me the 2+ wounding and ap3 is better than torrent and potential light vehicle destruction.

You're wrong. The Hellhound wins against even MEQs because the torrent rule lets you get a lot more hits than the standard turret flamer on the Bane Wolf.

I can usually wipe a squad per vehicle due to the two flamer templates, especially if they just came out of a destroyed vehicle.

That is incredibly optimistic. With zero range on the flamers an opponent who knows how to space out their models properly can limit you to 2-3 models per template at most. And you won't be getting anywhere near "wipe a squad per vehicle" levels of firepower outside of vehicle explosions (even a wreck can keep you from killing a squad with proper spacing).

 Peregrine wrote:


The problem is that while it can attempt to roll dice against a lot of things it isn't actually good at any of them. STR 7 AP 4 is borderline worthless against most vehicles and MCs, and a complete joke against flyers. Meanwhile it doesn't have the AP to deal with elite infantry, and is kind of lacking in volume of fire against hordes. So what you're left with is a tank that's decent at killing fire warriors but not much else. Pretty much no matter what you shoot at with one you're going to wish you'd taken one of the other options.

I have to disagree with you here on a few points, man as I think you are seriously underestimating this tank:

-S7 AP4 is not bad in anyway shape or form and add in the fact that its twin linked and 4 shots makes it a pretty decent light to medium armor hunter and MC's. When given Heavy Bolter side sponsons as well give you a pretty decent gunboat pumping out x9 Heavy Bolter shots on top of x4 TL Autocannon shots, though it does not have the amazing output as the Pask Punisher, it is much cheaper and can do quite a lot of damage, especially against higher toughness opponents. Don't see any of these tanks being limited to handling only 1 infantry type as you state the Exterminator is the only thing good for.

-Borderline worthless against most vehicles? I don't see how with a good chunk of vehicles in the game sitting around the 10-12 armor range including flyers. I don't know if you have ever tried using an Exterminator as an anti-air weapon before but in my experience the Twin Linked and the relatively light armor of most flyers (outside the Storm Raven and IG Flyers) has made them pretty effective. Even more so when you take x2 of them which I often do to increase fire output.

Are there variants that may fit those specific roles better? Absolutely, however the strength of this tank is its flexibility with its points cost and I have had great success in utilizing them in the roles I have listed above.

The problem is that while it can attempt to roll dice against a lot of things it isn't actually good at any of them. STR 7 AP 4 is borderline worthless against most vehicles and MCs, and a complete joke against flyers. Meanwhile it doesn't have the AP to deal with elite infantry, and is kind of lacking in volume of fire against hordes. So what you're left with is a tank that's decent at killing fire warriors but not much else. Pretty much no matter what you shoot at with one you're going to wish you'd taken one of the other options.

That depends what you want in your list. The las/melta exterminator is the true jack of all trades, a title it has taken from the battle tank. It has the capacity to deal with everything that is thrown at it, including a credible threat to flyers. Whether you want to take one or not, is entirely dependant on your playstyle, and the rest of your army's composition. If you prefer a host of units that can be tasked with whatever can be thrown at them, in true space marine style, then the exterminator fits in perfectly. If, however, you need the tank for a specific role in your army, then I suggest you look elsewhere, for there are other far more niche tanks available.

Also, 3 str 7 hits on average at long range is nothing to be sniffed at against light vehicles, as the exterminator has taken the role of light-medium vehicle destroyer over from the vendetta, as it can operate from turn 1. It also has devastating short range AT weaponry should the enemy close the distance. In regards to loadouts, In my opinion, the las/melta configuration is the only way to equip the exterminator, as the heavy bolter exterminator is eclipsed by the punisher, plasma cannons are done better by the executioner and there is no reason to bother with hull and sponson flamers, unless of course you are jeremy clarkson.

That, and they look incredibly sexy

 undead flesh addict wrote:

The problem is that while it can attempt to roll dice against a lot of things it isn't actually good at any of them. STR 7 AP 4 is borderline worthless against most vehicles and MCs, and a complete joke against flyers. Meanwhile it doesn't have the AP to deal with elite infantry, and is kind of lacking in volume of fire against hordes. So what you're left with is a tank that's decent at killing fire warriors but not much else. Pretty much no matter what you shoot at with one you're going to wish you'd taken one of the other options.

In regards to loadouts, In my opinion, the las/melta configuration is the only way to equip the exterminator, as the heavy bolter exterminator is eclipsed by the punisher, plasma cannons are done better by the executioner and there is no reason to bother with hull and sponson flamers, unless of course you are jeremy clarkson.

That, and they look incredibly sexy

Have never thought about running it like that before, I like it!

 gmaleron wrote:
-S7 AP4 is not bad in anyway shape or form and add in the fact that its twin linked and 4 shots makes it a pretty decent light to medium armor hunter and MC's.

It really is bad. STR 7 isn't enough to be a significant threat to vehicles, while AP 4 makes it pretty disappointing against MEQs/TEQs (the most common army in the game).

And no, it's not a decent vehicle hunter at all. Against a Rhino you're only getting 2.25 glances or better a turn (assuming no cover), and against a Chimera/Devilfish/Serpent you're only getting one (again, with no cover, a very generous assumption when many of those targets are skimmers with 4+ or better saves). IOW, if you shoot at a medium tank every turn for an entire game you might finally kill it. That's just laughably bad.

For comparison, a Vendetta gets 50% more firepower against those medium tanks, better mobility to get into side armor and improve its chances, and a squad of troops inside for late-game objective claiming when there are no more tanks to kill. Oh, and it costs significantly less.

Don't see any of these tanks being limited to handling only 1 infantry type as you state the Exterminator is the only thing good for.

Do the math.

Against MEQs you kill 1.8333 a turn.
Against orks with a KFF you kill 3.66 a turn.
Against Riptides you inflict 0.58 wounds a turn.

None of these numbers are very impressive when three infantry squads with nothing but lasguns at 24" (still cheaper than the tank) can kill 1.666 marines a turn.

I don't know if you have ever tried using an Exterminator as an anti-air weapon before but in my experience the Twin Linked and the relatively light armor of most flyers (outside the Storm Raven and IG Flyers) has made them pretty effective.

Sorry, but do the math. Exterminators are garbage as AA when you have Vendettas and Hydras in your codex. And TBH they're garbage even if we didn't have any other AA units, shooting them at flyers is a desperation move.

May be your opinion man and yes numbers are nice, however I have never had a lot faith in mathhammer and I am just telling you from experience in games against excellent competition what I have found that works. You can disagree but I fail to see how autocannons are bad in this edition, just my opinion but that's why I created this thread to begin with.

 Peregrine wrote:

It really is bad. STR 7 isn't enough to be a significant threat to vehicles, while AP 4 makes it pretty disappointing against MEQs/TEQs (the most common army in the game).

Apparently Peregrine has a wonderful meta with no necrons (you know, the metallic guys who use tesla destructiors almost exclusively out of all the guns available to them) in it at all. Good for him then.

I don't see how you can talk tactics and not "have faith in mathhammer". You really think some idealized situations that will rarely work in your favor is more reliable than hard numbers and statistical averages? Yes an Exterminator could utterly wreck a Vendetta with one round of shooting by rolling three pens. But you're dangerously optimistic if you take those scenarios and base all of your tactics around it. If you want to actually use good strategy you need to heavily consider mathhammer and look at what's best for the job you want.

For example, an Exterminator is getting an average of 1.22 hits against a Vendetta with .2 penetrating and .2 glancing hits. That is not a good AA unit by any stretch of the word

I honestly think that Mech guard is still competitive - sure the hull points hurt but it also helped us - granted not alot but it still did in a small manor - plus the Vehicle damage chart got less hurtful overall .

Now I personally think that Mech Guard is still one of the most competitive armies at the time in my experience ( I also play Mech Tau so meh ) In my personal opinion Veterans are probably one of the best and most versatile units in 40k granted they are only human but they do a damn fine job as is . -

In the relm of tanks and IFV's with The amazing world of Leman Russ's I personally prefer the Vanquisher due to the fact that in my general list I already posses a large amount of Weaponry to deal with lower AV threats ( fun Fact Chimeras CAN take Autocannons - Imperial Armor - I don't usually take them but the option exist ) And I build my Vanquishers in ill admit a pricy manner however they have only proven effective for me at least

Vanquisher
•plasma sponsons
•hull las cannon
-210

Granted I only take a pair of Russ's ( not squadrons ) I find them an excellent deterant for Mr. Deathwing and that odd deep striking Terminator unit .

Now on my Veterans (prepare for Internet backlash ) I typicall roll out double plasma guns and carapace armor ( got tired of my men getting killed by exploding chimeras )

Well I'm cut short cause of work but ill be updating later

I'm still by confused by so many people saying demolishers and medusas are the best Russ/artillery. Both of them suffer from the same problem, they have to be comparatively close to fire! Yes having the ap is nice, but against teq/mcs you have the executioner, and for vehicles you have the vanquisher. 14 front armor is nice until the tank is charged since it has has to be so close, then they have some tastey 11 to sink their teeth into. 24" just seems too close for comfort.

eclipseoto wrote:
I'm still by confused by so many people saying demolishers and medusas are the best Russ/artillery. Both of them suffer from the same problem, they have to be comparatively close to fire! Yes having the ap is nice, but against teq/mcs you have the executioner, and for vehicles you have the vanquisher. 14 front armor is nice until the tank is charged since it has has to be so close, then they have some tastey 11 to sink their teeth into. 24" just seems too close for comfort.

You have a 30" threat range though. 24" is shorter range, but most of the time you will want to be shooting things right at your 24" max range. Not many units can cover 24" in one turn, so on the next turn you can just back up 6" and fire again.

The problem with the Vanquisher is that it's a single shot. BS3 leaves a lot to be desired, and no matter how good your armor penetration is, you need to hit first.