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I am finishing off my SM company. It's primarily IF themed. I have one 10 man Assault Squad, but I want one more assault unit. Do I get another 10 man Assault Squad? Assault Centurions? 10 man Vanguards? Bikes?

What's the best set up for each choice?

I am putting together a 10 man Vanguard unit with jump packs, 6 power weapons, 2 lightning claws and 6 stomsheilds and a power fist.

Termites with THunder Hammes and storm shields are still the nest Killy assault unit in the codex IMHO. U can deep strike them but then they need a turn b4 they can assault, but I prefer a storm raven or even a land raider so they can get stuck in.

I thought assault was dead so why would you want to run assault troops . and vanguard cost way to much and are way over priced with all them power weapons and claws

zilka86 wrote:
I thought assault was dead so why would you want to run assault troops . and vanguard cost way to much and are way over priced with all them power weapons and claws

Units can no longer just make a bee line across the whole table and slaughter whatever it runs into, so if that's what you consider to be assault then yes assault is dead. However real assault, when used properly, can still drop the hammer. Perhaps more importantly than killing enemy units though, assault can prevent them from shooting.

OT: I'll agree with Sergeant Bob, SS Termies are your best bet. Bikes are also a good bet, but they're better with some of the other chapter tactics and not necessarily IF.

Don't listen to the guy above me. AssUlt is not dead. Just make sure to use los blocking terrain. Vanguard a good. Expensive but good. You can get lucky on heroic intervention as well. Its harder then sitting back and shooting but more fun and rewarding imo


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Correction don't listen to the guy the guy above me quoted Hehe

I am making an total company approach so I want assault options in my force. I have looked at the Ternies route, but since I am not running "1st Company" I feel like it should be Vanguard or Centurions. However, I can always say they are just company veterans in Termie Armor.

Honour guard

To run honour guard I HAVE to run a Chapter Master, and I don't always want to do that.

Call them a detatched 1st company squad. Given to Capt. Bobbius to assist in cleansing the anti Imperioum sentiment?

I think the part I loved the most out of that is Capt. Bobbius

 Cappizzano wrote:
I am making an total company approach so I want assault options in my force. I have looked at the Ternies route, but since I am not running "1st Company" I feel like it should be Vanguard or Centurions. However, I can always say they are just company veterans in Termie Armor.

Vanguard Veterans also come from the 1st company though. The Centurions could be good, but I haven't seen them enough to say one way or the other.

Alexi wrote:
Call them a detatched 1st company squad. Given to Capt. Bobbius to assist in cleansing the anti Imperioum sentiment?

I think he's referring to the fact that he has to play a Chapter Master unit in his list in order to get the Honour Guard.

Personally I prefer Assault Terminators with a 3:2 split between hammers and claws. In a Land Raider, flavor to taste. (I prefer the Crusader.)

If you have a bike capt, a command squad on bikes is a decent counter assault unit.

 Cappizzano wrote:
I am finishing off my SM company. It's primarily IF themed. I have one 10 man Assault Squad, but I want one more assault unit. Do I get another 10 man Assault Squad? Assault Centurions? 10 man Vanguards? Bikes?

What's the best set up for each choice?

1st) re-roll BA
2nd) now you have assualt units




Automatically Appended Next Post:
For real though depends how much points you have to spend. Bikes are ok but not Dedicated for assualt. Centurions are to slow for my taste.

So this goes back to assualt sqaud or vangaurds.
with normal assualt squads you have cheaper units and therfore can field more of them.

With vanguard you get tougher or more specialized units.

So really its between the two. Which do i want more?

If you have a CM, honour guard are pretty handy thanks to good saves and being 2/3 of the cost of a Terminator each (and still get some shooting, though not great). They can take a pod, hanging around for a turn or put them in a Land Raider (from HS) and you can fit more of them in than Terminators.

Assault Terminators with Thunderhammers/Lightening Claws. Nice and fluffy for the Fists, too.

By the way, just having 1st Company vets as detachtments in your rounded codex force isn't "running a 1st Company" list. That's simply how the 1st Company are used by codex chapters: as detachtments in support of the other battle companies.

zilka86 wrote:
..and vanguard cost way to much and are way over priced with all them power weapons and claws

Then don't take all them power weapons and claws?

A 10 man VV-squad with jump packs is only 50 more points. You get an extra attack per model (taking you to 40 attacks on the charge instead of 30) and heroic intervention. Depending on what kind of list you are running you might also benefit from opening up another FA slot by taking them.

A basic squad is pretty decent in combat. You can give them some pistol options for the same price as the regular assault marines and of course you do have the option of giving a couple of them some better melee weapons.

But saying "they are way to over-priced because the Codex forces me to give every single model fancy upgraded weapons" is silly. Just because you can doesn't mean that you have to.

Do you also think that a Rhino is overpriced at 65 points because Dozer Blades, Storm Bolters, Hunter-Killer MIssiles and Extra Armor have to be included on every one of them?

Be careful when assigning value to the extra attacks for Vanguards. I got caught in that trap myself. It's not a guaranteed free attack. Unless you are playing Raven Guard, you must be using the jump pack during assault, which means no flying over buildings to charge people. Also, you won't get Hammer of Wrath unless you use the jump pack AND get into base to base contact.

Whether or not jump packs are worth it now or if they should be swapped for a transport, I have no idea.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
Be careful when assigning value to the extra attacks for Vanguards. I got caught in that trap myself. It's not a guaranteed free attack. Unless you are playing Raven Guard, you must be using the jump pack during assault, which means no flying over buildings to charge people. Also, you won't get Hammer of Wrath unless you use the jump pack AND get into base to base contact.

Well, HoW is nice but not guaranteed and regular Assault Marines face the same problems with actually pulling it off.. But VV do still get that extra base attack for being veterans though, that is what brings them from 30 to 40.

Whether or not jump packs are worth it now or if they should be swapped for a transport, I have no idea.

Raven Guard, worth it.

Everybody else, not sure. Although the lack of assault-transports pushes me towards JP.

The thing with Vanguard, as has been said, is not to fall into the trap of overloading them on special weapons, they are still pretty good against light to medium targets with just BP/CCW and the odd hammer, fist or claw. Just make sure you provide other threats, or they will get focused on too much.

For example, I went up against a full squad with shrike the other day, at 1000 points, and was able to focus all my firepower on them as the rest of the army was just 2 tac squads and a scout squad. Had I had a couple of Assault squads or more aggressive tacs (rhinos or pods) then I would have had to split my fire, as it was I could focus all my army on one squad, and I shot them down to 2 guys and shrke before they even got into CC, at which point they spent the rest of the game tarpitted and then wiped out by my AA/Teeth captain. This will be easier to avoid in bigger games, but I'd say avoid going into deathstar category until you can provide 2-3 more threats to back them up.

I like the idea of sticking them in a LR, it means you'll hit at full strength, but also DSing them might be an idea. Surviving one round of firepower before combat is easier than taking 2-3 running across the board.

My opinion was based on the fact that with the 100plus people in my gaming group i no longer see any assault units our assault army even orks run a gun list now. so yes in my gaming area assault is dead do to 6ed and gun line is king

Use better terrain.

We do use lots of terrain more then 25%. Just assault seems to not work like it should

I will agree that current meta is defiantly taudar TPS. Assault is harder but w/ LOS blocking terrain a bit of tactical placing and some luck they are not "bad'

zilka86 wrote:
We do use lots of terrain more then 25%. Just assault seems to not work like it should

Just out of interest, how do you think assault 'should' work. If you're expecting it to be all-reward, no-risk then no, it isn't, and no, it won't just run through whole armies, but used at the right time, in the right place, it can still be a game-changer. And it's not just terrain that matters, it's the rest of your army, the mission and the opponent that will determine how useful assault is.

When a assault ork army with over 180 boyz can't attack a gun line and never have a chance ok being able to break the gun line . when you assault a enemy army it should be able to break thru that point of assault . when i drove my 5rhinos up to a enemy and jump out i should be able to shoot and then assault to break there lines

zilka86 wrote:
My opinion was based on the fact that with the 100plus people in my gaming group i no longer see any assault units our assault army even orks run a gun list now. so yes in my gaming area assault is dead do to 6ed and gun line is king

There are over 100 players in your group and not one of them ever fields a single assault unit. Right.

Right no one use assault any more because it dead in 6ed so we take as many guns as possible

Went over your head, but Orblivion was calling bs on ya....