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Can this be a power axe? Like could the sanguinor take a power axe?

 raiden wrote:
Can this be a power axe? Like could the sanguinor take a power axe?

Check the Blood Angels FAQ, it has your answer.

GW is workblocked for me,but did'nt they FAQ the whole Glaive thing ?

And why would you want the Sanguinor going last with an axe ?

Ninja'd...

2+/3++ EW. Ap2 would be nice /:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woot. It can he he.

 raiden wrote:
2+/3++ EW. Ap2 would be nice /:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woot. It can he he.

This could be very problematic with TOs and other players. While a glaive is either an axe or a sword, the sanguinor is modelled with a sword and IMHO it would seem like modelling for advantage.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 raiden wrote:
2+/3++ EW. Ap2 would be nice /:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woot. It can he he.

This could be very problematic with TOs and other players. While a glaive is either an axe or a sword, the sanguinor is modelled with a sword and IMHO it would seem like modelling for advantage.

which at the end of the day is a gaming convection and not a rule. perhaps the guy really likes axes and has a sucessor chaptor called the Blood Executioners and they all use axes.

I didn't say it was a rule in the brb but in a tournament what the TO says is law.
I suppose the polite thing would be to just check with people before the game rather than springing it on them during the first assault it comes up in.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 raiden wrote:
2+/3++ EW. Ap2 would be nice /:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woot. It can he he.

This could be very problematic with TOs and other players. While a glaive is either an axe or a sword, the sanguinor is modelled with a sword and IMHO it would seem like modelling for advantage.

So cut off the sword and put on an axe. It would make for a cool conversion, be legal, and WYSIWYG. So how and why would this be a problem?

FAQ says its either

 Inquisitor Lord Cuthbert wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 raiden wrote:
2+/3++ EW. Ap2 would be nice /:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Woot. It can he he.

This could be very problematic with TOs and other players. While a glaive is either an axe or a sword, the sanguinor is modelled with a sword and IMHO it would seem like modelling for advantage.

So cut off the sword and put on an axe. It would make for a cool conversion, be legal, and WYSIWYG. So how and why would this be a problem?

It's still modelling for advantage IMHO and in the opinion of some people, it being wysiwyg is irrelevant to this. You are converting a model that has a severe limitation as a special character to gain the ability to deal with 2+ armour saves with a character that is tough enough to survive the downside of an axe. That's the problem I see.
As to being legal... the rules don't say you cannot. That is not the same thing and it's only legal if you have permission. It's been said many times that conversions aren't covered by the rules and it's just player convention that they are used. Things that push MFA too far can be objected to by an opponent or by a TO.

All of the 6th ed special characters have their power weapons defined as the one they are modelled with or given a specific profile I don't see why you can swap this one around for a decided buff.

no, the rules say YOU CAN. a glaive encarmine is a power weapon, by rules it can be any power weapon. the FAQ by GW backed this by saying you can make them power swords or axes.

It says it is what's modelled on the model.... what is the sanguinor modelled with? You know the GW model the rules say you use, this guy: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1700035a That's for any RAW or legal ideas.

The rules don't say you can/cannot convert the unit, accepting conversions is gaming convention and I'd have no trouble but for the majority of people that have talked about changing the sanguinor were the people that so desperately wanted to model dante with a sword to get the benefits of his high I. People wanting to switch out the model's weapons for a conversion is one thing but just to get the benefit of the axe is a very different one.

Because it is in fact NOT MfA ... The entry for Sangy in his wargear have it as a Glaive Encarmine. Now, this codex was written in 5th and it was just a power weapon, two handed, master crafted. All of them were, those that were axes, as well as those that were swords.

6th rolled around and there became a distinction betwixt swords and axes. It is by looking at the physical model that you were to follow rules that were staves, axes, swords, and lances. They have had plenty of time to change it to sword or axe if it was to be one or the other ... god knows that they changed Astorath's unusual power weapon to an axe. It was THE definition of an unusual power weapon and they changed it to an unwieldy axe that you must re-roll passed invuln saves for.

They have had plenty of time to do the same with ole Sangy, but have not ... IMHO you are allowed to model him with an axe if you so wish.

liturgies, what is your opinion on people modeling DCA with a power sword and power axe?

IIRC Dante got FAQed as an axe, and only an axe.

 Happyjew wrote:
liturgies, what is your opinion on people modeling DCA with a power sword and power axe?

I think I answered this the first time it came up in a debate but my opinion was then and is now that a generic model is different to a special character.
So a sergeant, chapter master, etc etc with two different power swords is cool as you have the options to change that model's load out but putting a sword on Dante, Sanguinor etc would be different as GW made a specific model for that unit which has no options to upgrade in this case.

As for 5th ed, I remember it well, I was there. Funny thing is that GW have a physical model of the Sanguinor. If you're changing a model for the express purpose of gaining an advantage you didn't have a RAW option of taking. I think that is clearly MFA.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
liturgies, what is your opinion on people modeling DCA with a power sword and power axe?

I think I answered this the first time it came up in a debate but my opinion was then and is now that a generic model is different to a special character.
So a sergeant, chapter master, etc etc with two different power swords is cool as you have the options to change that model's load out but putting a sword on Dante, Sanguinor etc would be different as GW made a specific model for that unit which has no options to upgrade in this case.

As for 5th ed, I remember it well, I was there. Funny thing is that GW have a physical model of the Sanguinor. If you're changing a model for the express purpose of gaining an advantage you didn't have a RAW option of taking. I think that is clearly MFA.

yeah okay... except he can take an axe.... RAW. and personally I don't see how modeling SC or generic characters/models is much different.

You seem to miss the issue, a glaive can be a sword or axe RAW but the rules say use the weapon the model is holding ie: wysiwyg
Where in the rules does it say you may convert the model? It says in the rules to use GW models and GW made a model. You need to find permission to convert the sanguinor model otherwise it's not a RAW argument.
If you're arguing HIWPI that's different and opinions can differ.

As I said, there is nothing in the rules about conversions and it's down to player's opinions and general conventions. One convention is MFA and it is subjective but a clear guide is intent or effect of the conversion.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
You seem to miss the issue, a glaive can be a sword or axe RAW but the rules say use the weapon the model is holding ie: wysiwyg
Where in the rules does it say you may convert the model? It says in the rules to use GW models and GW made a model. You need to find permission to convert the sanguinor model otherwise it's not a RAW argument.
If you're arguing HIWPI that's different and opinions can differ.

As I said, there is nothing in the rules about conversions and it's down to player's opinions and general conventions. One convention is MFA and it is subjective but a clear guide is intent or effect of the conversion.

by that logic every SG pack I have seen wouldn't have axes. since they all come with swords.

No..... the Sanguinary guard can have either as they have the option of being assembled with either. If you're saying the axes are always better on these models, I wouldn't say that at all. SG with swords are great for certain units.

What I would say is that a 2+/3+ EW model with AP 2 and +1 S is far better at taking out those pesky 2+ saves and can survive the wait to hit far better than a SG model who actually has the option of being assembled with either weapon.

Survavbility doesn't change the balance between a sword, axe, maul or lance. A generic character with the same saves and toughness would pay the same cost for any of these weapons.

so, because I CAN assemble it, I can model it any way I want? huh. the fact that all SG in any GW models shown (including the box) all use swords has no value what so ever? Do the new SG come with axes? I haven't bought any lately. I still don't see why it would be a problem other than the opponent being scared. RAW and RAI it is valid. for 275 points I better well be able to kill the hell out of something by god.

 Bausk wrote:
Survavbility doesn't change the balance between a sword, axe, maul or lance. A generic character with the same saves and toughness would pay the same cost for any of these weapons.

Are you saying making an AP 2 sanguinor to deal with a 2+ save heavy local meta wouldn't change survivability?

As to axes on SG, two of the three on the picture for the unit on the GW site have axes. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440192a&prodId=prod680007a
You've still not shown RAW nor RAI as there is nothing about conversions in the brb so there is no guidance there.
Well I would prefer if Dante wasn't I 1 but it happens with edition changes.

just as the sanguinor w/ an axe happens. as far as I am concerned. RAW you can swap any power weapon for any of the others. the GE limits it to axe or sword. FAQ says its either or. you swap sangs high I for I1. I see no problem with it as rules allow it. The rule I read has unless otherwise stated a power weapon is a power weapon that can be swapped betwixt the 3. I just don't see anything substantial behind the argument that he cannot take an axe. Glaive Encarmine: A Glaive Encarmine is a two-handed
master-crafted power weapon. straight from the dex and it is the sangs weapon.

Where does it you can swap between the 3, especially as there are 4 types of power weapon?
I'm looking at page 61 and it says look to the model not you can swap between them.

It can be either of the 2 options for the glaive but to tell you do a schrodinger's cat and actually look at the model. There isn't any permission to change the model in there.

No I was saying on paper there is zero difference between a sword or axe regardless of the models potential to survive.

By that logic though if i kit bash a predator for Las/plasma I am MFA. There is no model for the weapons on the vehicle, but it is an option written into official GW content. Should i only be allowed to use the autocannon or the TL las as they are the only options provided in the kit?

when I say swap, I mean I have seen sgts. w/ power sword/axe/and even the maul. I suppose that okay though??

either way, It is not illegal, and nor would I mind if someone else did it, or did it with another model. I like axes, so happens the axe is good on the sanguinor. most of my other models that can have axes. if every one of my armies power weapons were axes (barring those are can't take them) would you really complain that much about the sang having an axe as well?

Backlash wrote:
By that logic though if i kit bash a predator for Las/plasma I am MFA. There is no model for the weapons on the vehicle, but it is an option written into official GW content. Should i only be allowed to use the autocannon or the TL las as they are the only options provided in the kit?

Well a predator doesn't have the ability to be outfitted with las/plaz. A razorback does... and it has the option of being armed with it. While there is some things that are missing in GW kits etc has the sanguinor been armed with a glaive encarmine? If it has a glaive encarmine, what does the model GW issued that fulfils all of the 0 wargear options got in it's hand?

It does have a wargear option though provided through the FAQ. Its the same as if the codex had said may take a power sword or ax. In essence your trying to argue the validity of the option based on the source of said option.