Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If you take Marneus, you can take up to 3 units of honour guard. More if you add another chapter master. Would a list full of these guys be useful? Maybe against hordes? They have a 2+ and 2 attacks, plus a power weapon, and they are not too expensive. Like cheap terminators without invulns. Yay or nay?

By not too expensive you must mean extremely expensive. They die easily to plasma. Plasma Suits would have a field day.

What is their delivery system because if you foot slodge across the board most guard and tau armies will have your army at half strength before you make it across the table.

Feasible wrote:By not too expensive you must mean extremely expensive. They die easily to plasma. Plasma Suits would have a field day.

tankboy145 wrote:What is their delivery system because if you foot slodge across the board most guard and tau armies will have your army at half strength before you make it across the table.

Don't know where your going with the expensive comment, but I won't go there. Yes, they would perish easily to plasma.

I was thinking drop pod or two, but if you take sternguard, you'd probably want to save the DP's for them. I was thinking of filling out my troop requirments with scouts in land speeder storms, having 3 storm talons, 2 Stalkers, Marneus and bunch of honour guard. Not sure if the list would be a good TAC. Still trying to figure out what it's going to have a hard time with. The storm talons are for anti flyer, same with Stalkers. I notice i'm lacking anti-tank in this list, unless I put melta on the land speeder storms. I kind of want to kit out the land speeder storms for anti-infantry. It comes equipped with a large blast template weapon, and can replace a heavy bolter with a heavy flamer.

I've tried making honour guard lists. The problem is A) delivery and b) lack of guns.

Delivery:

Drop Pod is feasible, but once it's down an opponent can just move away and your honour guard is left facing a lot of guns.

Rhinos/razorbacks are ok. but you can't assault out of them, so the main reason for honour guard is gone.

Stormraven/Land Raider: EXPENSIVE

Lack of Guns:
Coming from GK background I am spoilt by fact our units have best of both worlds, strom bolters AND power weapons. Honour Guard only have power weapons, which means they need to be in combat all the time to make use of them.
This is difficult if they come in via drop pod,


Personally I think the only way to use honour guard (if you're going to use them en masse) is to put them in Razorbacks and hope for the best.
Yes you can't asault from them any more (come back 5th all is forgiven!) but you do get the anti-transport firepower you'll need to get the infantry out of opponent's vehicles.

Possible way to get Loads of Honour Guard:


Primary Detachment

Marneus Calgar
275

Chapter Master
130

Honour Guard (5 man)

DT: Razorback w/ t-l plasma gun & Lascannon
210

Honour Guard (5 man)
DT: Razorback w/ t-l plasma gun & Lascannon
210

Honour Guard (5 man)
DT: Razorback w/ t-l plasma gun & Lascannon
210

Honour Guard (5 man)
DT: Razorback w/ t-l plasma gun & Lascannon
210


TROOOPS

Scout Squad (5 man)
x 4 Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher w/ Flakk Missiles
Camo Cloaks
94

Scout Squad (5 man)
x 4 Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher w/ Flakk Missiles
Camo Cloaks
94



Secondary Detachment

Chapter Master
130


Honour Guard (4 man)
DT: Razorback w/ t-l plasma gun & lascannon
185

TROOPS

Scout Squad (5 man)
x 4 Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher w/ flakk missiles
Camo Cloaks
94

Scout Squad (5 man)
x 4 Sniper Rifles
Missile Launcher
Camo Cloaks
79

2000 points on the nose. that's 5 razorbacks with 5 lascannon shots to take out other transports etc and (count them) 24 honour guard.
Plus you have 3 orbital strikes, 3 anti-air missile launchers, and a load of shooting from scouts (ok they're not the best but WE)

Just an FYI that Honour Guard do have boltguns. I almost think that replacing their boltgun with a close combat weapon is there for model reasons, as it is pointless on the table top due to also having a bolt pistol and power weapon stock.

scouts hsoudn thave flakk misiles imho. 1 s7 attack doesnt do a whole lot vs a flier.

even if each squad shot at same fleir, thats 3 shots, lets say you get better than average and only miss once.
2 s7 shots vs a flier litterally only has a 3% chance of exploding it. check it at

http://mathhammer40k.com/shooting/armor

So they do have boltguns/bolt pistols. my mistake. (too used to honour guards being CC only!0

As for the scouts well TBH i don't really think they'd be good at anti-air either, but without those Flakk missiles they'd have an even worse chance. and besides, the ENTIRE list is not something i'd actually want to take cause Honour Guard just aren't good enough in shooting compared to dedicated Tactical squad, or Assault compared to Terminators.

Honour Guard are expensive. They are less expensive than they used to be, but nevertheless, still expensive.

5x Man Honour Guard - 135
2x Power Weapons - 30
Razorback - 55

In all thats 220 points, for units that die to plasma as easily as regular marines. I don't know your Meta, but that couldn't ever work here.

 Feasible wrote:
Honour Guard are expensive. They are less expensive than they used to be, but nevertheless, still expensive.

5x Man Honour Guard - 135
2x Power Weapons - 30
Razorback - 55

In all thats 220 points, for units that die to plasma as easily as regular marines. I don't know your Meta, but that couldn't ever work here.

Honour Guard don't pay for power weapons, they have them stock. Compared to a Tactical Marine, you pay 11 point more for 2+ armour, a power weapon, a close combat weapon, an extra attack (meaning 3 attacks each base), +2 Leadership and a Weapon Skill 5 Sergeant. Not too shabby if you ask me, just keep them away from vehicles. Besides, who needs a Razorback when you can take ten in a Rhino or Drop Pod? Or eight with a wound tank like Marneus or an Eternal Shield Chapter Master up front? Honour Guard are actually one of the few 'elite' units Marines have access to that is close to spot on value for points. They take a huge dump all over Terminators.

Honour guard costs 25pts
2+ amour
Power weap
2 attacks and +1 for bolt pistol!

Terminator 40pts
2+ armour
Power weap
2attacks but no bonus attack and no sweeping advance

10 man honour guard unit with Pedro cantor in a land raider would rock, give then all power axes and power lances!

My bad for the Honour Guard and power weapons. (In my mind I had them mixed up with the Command Squad). However, I still stand by what I said, it may just be my meta or yours, but AP2 can be surprisingly plentiful. Bladestorm, Crisis Suits, IG Vets, Vindicators, etc.

 Feasible wrote:
My bad for the Honour Guard and power weapons. (In my mind I had them mixed up with the Command Squad). However, I still stand by what I said, it may just be my meta or yours, but AP2 can be surprisingly plentiful. Bladestorm, Crisis Suits, IG Vets, Vindicators, etc.

stand by what comments exactly? The one where you say too expensive, or where you back track and say they are just expensive. I already made the point that honor guard are expensive. Let me guess though, you'll have an answer to that right? Please add something useful to the discussion next time or not at all.

Anyways, I was playing around with a list and find a unit if these guys in a drop pod are a viable alternative to assault terminators.

Here is a little trick... ally in brother corbulo and have fun. Not many will be dying from that squad! (He wont give the rest of the squad fnp but he will tank every shot below st8 with his 2+ fnp after his 3+ pa save. His re-roll is often a game changer too). Not scared of large amounts of small arms reducing your HG now ;-).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
9 man led by calgar, 9 man led by es chap master and a 9 man led by corbulo. All in rhinos. Tbf you could even footslog that lot with the amount of tanking characters!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
At dual force org you could have another 10 man led by lysander.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Obvs talking about at least 3k battle though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hows this for 3k (lots of hard durable assault units, weakness to flyers as only two talons at 3k):

Calgar
With HG #1

CM
With se, aa, pf
With HG #2

HG #1
8 man
Rhino

HG #2
8 man
Rhino

HG #3
8 man
Rhino

5 man scout squad
Bp & ccw
Land speeder storm

5 man scout squad
Bp & ccw
Land speeder storm

5 man scout squad
Bolters

5 man scout squad
Snipers

5 man scout squad
Snipers

5 man sternguard
5 combi-meltas
Pod

Storm talon
Skyhammer

Storm talon
Skyhammer

5 man dev squad
4 lascannon

5 man dev squad
4 lascannon

Mephiston

Corbulo
With HG #3

10 man death co
2 pfs
Rhino

Each HG has tanking characters and the enemy has 3 HG, 1 DC and mephy charging their lines whilst the lascannons and sternguard pop transports and tanks (talk about difficult target priorities for the opponent). Stormtalons are for AA and 5 scoring scout units, 2 in mobile speeders which blind enemy firepower. Not the most competitive (esp not being able to charge out of metal boxes) but could work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
3k btw.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could change those rhinos to pods and give the non sniper scout squads melta bombs for the sarges.

Blood Angels FNP only applies to Blood Angels Codex units

Yes I know and thats why I said he WONT give the HG fnp. But he WILL still tank small arms and plasma for them!

Sick list, Poly Ranger. I actually dig scouts in LSS with a heavy flamer for anti-hoard. Still thinking of the layouts for LSS though. I just dont like the BS of 3 :(

Calgar, Armor of Antilochus.
Chaplain Cassius.
Allied Chapter Master with AA, Burning Blade.
10x Honor Guard.

In a Land Raider Crusader.

Cheers - id just be worried about all the rhinos. The only difference I might make to my list after careful consideration is to change all rhinos to pods, saving 15points (BA rhino being 50), drop the bolter scouts, and get 2 unused pods for the devs, meaning 4 pods will turn up turn 1. This will provide a turn 2 charge rather than the turn 3 charge the rhinos would provide.

Aye, bs of 3 isnt great but with the large blind blasr you don't need to be super acurate. Hf could definitely work though!

Garukadon wrote:

 Feasible wrote:
My bad for the Honour Guard and power weapons. (In my mind I had them mixed up with the Command Squad). However, I still stand by what I said, it may just be my meta or yours, but AP2 can be surprisingly plentiful. Bladestorm, Crisis Suits, IG Vets, Vindicators, etc.

stand by what comments exactly? The one where you say too expensive, or where you back track and say they are just expensive. I already made the point that honor guard are expensive. Let me guess though, you'll have an answer to that right? Please add something useful to the discussion next time or not at all.

Anyways, I was playing around with a list and find a unit if these guys in a drop pod are a viable alternative to assault terminators.

I stand by the fact that AP2 is too plentiful in my meta for HG to be useful. (I explained that directly) Also, you scold (For lack of a better word) me 8 days after I posted. Lastly, I admitted I was wrong about me thinking that HG had to pay for their power weapons and I'm sorry, I even retracted my comments. Was that not enough for you? Anyway, I doubt that either of us want to continue this petty argument so let's just go our seperate ways. Good Luck and Stay Classy -Feasible

use da honor guard for the BA

BA honor guard with power weapons cost 31.25pts a model and only have a 3+ save (175 - 50 for the priest then ÷ 4). Granted you can give them jps but then they are 41.25pts a model. Without power weapons they cost 16.25pts a model but are realistically just a veteran marine with the standard 3+. And the priest does not have the advantages of a normal priest such as leaving a squad, LoS, precision shot or weapon upgrade options.
I like ba hgs but vanilla hgs are more durable and hard hitting for their points value.

Dante-225
3x Libby ML2 w/ jump pack- 525
4x Honor guard w/ plasma guns and jump packs- 950 (one squad has a flamer)
4x Scouts w/ snipers-75 - 300


2k points of BA. Libbys have shield of sanguinus and either unleashed rage or prescience


Automatically Appended Next Post:
several weaknesses but eh. its fun. cand save 200 points on the HG if you take the jump packs off (then plus more since the libbys dont need them, thats up to you tho)

Would be fun to play. Although if not taking sang guard drop dante for another libby. Also drop the ML2 if using shield as you can cast shield in your opponents turn and another power in your own! That'll save you 250 pts. Grab a raven for aa. 50pts left and you're golden (litrally ;-)).
Personally I prefer hgs with jps and 2 pfs. Then if I take a couple of casualties from a squad I can remove less expensive (ha!) models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and you've also overcosted your hg. 4 units with 4 pgs in each with jps will only cost 900pts. So you have 100pts more to play with if going with my raven recommendation (so can still take dante in place of the 4th lib if you like).

ive had a few games recently, deepstriking terminators to clear out a corner of the board, but i was finding myself really wishingfor honour guard in a drop pod. same armour save, 4 attacks on the charge, strike at initiative... i will try an test game with them this weekend.