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This isn't a topic about what to cram inside of it, rather I wanted to discuss how best to utilize it on the battlefield.
Or is it really as simple as "fun speed ahead!"

Fun speed ahead. Like it. I guess thats how I use mine. Move at crusoing speed with it in the first turn and fire away. With the amount of shoots you get snap shooting shouldnt be too much of an issue, what with it all having re-roles. I add a multi melta and hunter killer missile too (comes in handy as with its unlimited range and power of machine spirit to take a pop shoot at something that may be a threat). Then moving at combat speed in the second turn to uload whoever is lerking inside, with the new rules you now can move six inches after disembarking, and get straight into an assualt after using the fire power from the LRC and the unit inside.

If going against a horde no point splitting fire with it either, use it to get the numbers down.

The only time i find this dosent wotk is against Tau with hammer heads and seeker missile. With enough marker light hits it dosent realy matter what you do. It will rarely survive the first turn, so if that is the case remember to use your smoke luancher to get that cover save!


Well thats what I do, hope it helps.

 Godeth wrote:
Fun speed ahead. Like it. I guess thats how I use mine. Move at crusoing speed with it in the first turn and fire away. With the amount of shoots you get snap shooting shouldnt be too much of an issue, what with it all having re-roles. I add a multi melta and hunter killer missile too (comes in handy as with its unlimited range and power of machine spirit to take a pop shoot at something that may be a threat). Then moving at combat speed in the second turn to uload whoever is lerking inside, with the new rules you now can move six inches after disembarking, and get straight into an assualt after using the fire power from the LRC and the unit inside.
.

That's about all I came up with, the main choice seems to be whether to go 18" with no cover save or 12" with smoke.

I was just hoping that there would be more to the unit than "Push the big red "GO" button and hold on!"

Put it up on the shelf, buy a storm raven, and kit it out as a storm raven crusader(all the same weapons).

In 4th, the crusader was just slightly better than the phobos; due to the awesome that was Assault cannons at the time, and the fact that all weapons could be fired on the move while transporting 8 Dual claw termies who got to assault out with frag grenades. the phobos only carried 5, without frag grenades and could fire all weapons(2 poorly, either the lascannon at full bs is firing into a unit or the heavy bolter is wasting shots into a vehicle; and the potm lascannon was bs2).

In 5th it was the best choice(redeemer couldn't fire 1 weapon on the move, phobos was just awful in comparison).

Now, in 6th, it is the least desirable choice, with all but 2 weapons snap shotting. in comparison, the SRC is more survivable vs melta and gets to fire 5 weapons at full BS. If nilla marines didn't get the SRaven, I would still begrudgingly use my LRC, but now it goes on the shelf looking pretty in 2 paint schemes ago.

Forgot to mention 6th on the other 2. The phobos "got better" in that it stayed basically the same, only now it shoots armour on its flank with potms, and either another armour or a troop while t-l snapshoting a lascannon at that troop. The redeemer gained 4 t-l snap shots at one of the flamer targets(basically fixing it from 5th edition).

I don't see the value in the StormRaven as a transport. With a potential S10 attack on all occupants, that's tough to swallow.

And then there are guys like Space Wolves who don't have access to a Storm Raven. And even if I did, I wouldn't take one. A Crusader full of blood claws or a fully tricked out Wolf Guard squad is just too much fun.

Even though Land Raiders are not as survivable as they used to be, they still are pretty tough. 4 HPs and AV14 is still tough for some armies to deal with. It also helps that an LRC with a unit in it, lets you put two other units in reserves. That really helps when you have HQs that you want to start in reserves as each one has to put a some other unit on the ground. So putting down a fairly survivable vehicle isn't a bad choice.

I've not seen anyone use the storm raven yet as a transport? They seem to use them as flying tanks. But with new flakk missiles and agies lines you can deal with them fairly quickly, as thier only AV12 and 3 HP. An imbolised hit normaly makes them fly off the table too. The risk of crash and burn is too much when compared to a lrc going bang. With the lrc going bang it stays where it is and gives a good chance your unit embarked within will do something in the next turn.

The major drawback of storm ravens in general--transport or not--is that they have to start in reserve. If they don't come in when you need them, then too bad.

A rhino or two parked strategically in front of the LRC can give it cover even in a turn when it (and the rhino also) moves 18" without having to use smoke. As long as the rhino doesn't blow up.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
The major drawback of storm ravens in general--transport or not--is that they have to start in reserve. If they don't come in when you need them, then too bad.

A rhino or two parked strategically in front of the LRC can give it cover even in a turn when it (and the rhino also) moves 18" without having to use smoke. As long as the rhino doesn't blow up.

Good point. A 35 point sheild isnt a bad idea.

The main traits of a LRC is the larger troop capacity so what gets "crammed into it" is important especially with an assault ramp.

Weapons and armor it is really a light troop killer with the multi-melta option for armor.

As mentioned, if you only want it's weaponry capabilities the StormRaven is the better choice and is a little more up-gunned.

I would only take the LRC if I have some serious plans for the occupants, in any other conditions I would not use it.

How reliably can the Raven get your troops into assault if it has to hover?

With one or two others.

 minigun762 wrote:
How reliably can the Raven get your troops into assault if it has to hover?

As the GK and BA players (who have had it for a bit longer) will tell you, Storm Ravens are flying coffins. If they get shot down your unit will die, and the units you put inside are usually expensive. It's rare, but I've had mine intercepted down by the ubiquitous quadgun. And Storm Ravens are enough of a threat that as soon as you go into hover mode, every anti-tank weapon your opponent has will shoot at it, and probably kill what is now a 12/12/12 skimmer. Furthermore, the earliest you can assault is turn 3, which is the same as a deepstriking unit.
With a Land Raider, you can get a turn 2 assault fairly easily (18" move+flat out, 6" move then occupants 6" move+charge). I will say however that you need target saturation for that to work. The Crusader's purpose is to deliver a large assault squad into your enemy's face, any shooting you get to do afterwards with it is gravy.

Why are people often answering these threads with "don't take what you are asking about".

I don't think "use something else" is an on-topic answer to an "how do I use it" question...

Edit: made post less cranky.

 d-usa wrote:
Why are people often answering these threads with "don't take what you are asking about".

I don't think "use something else" is an on-topic answer to an "how do I use it" question...

Edit: made post less cranky.

Douchery mostly...

People refuse to understand that others will use what they find is fun

The world doesn't always revolve around WAC nor should the game be built around it...

My 2c on the matter, the crusader makes a great delivery system and soaker if parked behind cover or in a forest. Hide things behind it, move up, and charge!

You could always try to ram things with it too I do that a lot with my LRs and surprisingly it works out a lot more than not ^_^ Just don't urk and Ork Battlewagons off... Those things will squash you if it has a Deff Rolla

I love the LRC. I use it with my Assault termies or an ASM squad (i play BA). I figure it is a very impossing model that people dont want to to deal with and will either ignore it (and pay the consequence) or waste their shooting phase trying to eliminate it (and pay the consequence). Either way turn 2 should see my unit inside in CC with little to no casulties. In summary. The best use for the LRC = delivery vehicle.

 greyknight12 wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
How reliably can the Raven get your troops into assault if it has to hover?

As the GK and BA players (who have had it for a bit longer) will tell you, Storm Ravens are flying coffins. If they get shot down your unit will die, and the units you put inside are usually expensive. It's rare, but I've had mine intercepted down by the ubiquitous quadgun. And Storm Ravens are enough of a threat that as soon as you go into hover mode, every anti-tank weapon your opponent has will shoot at it, and probably kill what is now a 12/12/12 skimmer.

That's my assessment as well, at least on paper.
One is a true assault transport, the other is a gunship.

 minigun762 wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:

 minigun762 wrote:
How reliably can the Raven get your troops into assault if it has to hover?

As the GK and BA players (who have had it for a bit longer) will tell you, Storm Ravens are flying coffins. If they get shot down your unit will die, and the units you put inside are usually expensive. It's rare, but I've had mine intercepted down by the ubiquitous quadgun. And Storm Ravens are enough of a threat that as soon as you go into hover mode, every anti-tank weapon your opponent has will shoot at it, and probably kill what is now a 12/12/12 skimmer.

That's my assessment as well, at least on paper.
One is a true assault transport, the other is a gunship.

^^Agreed. However, I would have to say that "skis of fury" helps mitigate the S10 coffin. Come out of reserves onto the board, skies of fury out and shoot. Make your opponent intercept an empty gun boat or the unit that just popped out (ala dev-cents ). Dangerous terrain tests are not scary anymore in 6E.

The real issue is whether you can get LRC cost + assault unit cost worth of utility out of this unit combo. The LRC is especially a bitter pill to take to transport BA regular ASM.

Martel732 wrote:
The real issue is whether you can get LRC cost + assault unit cost worth of utility out of this unit combo. The LRC is especially a bitter pill to take to transport BA regular ASM.

True! I do like the points discount though. I also like to put a big nasty squad of DC with a chappy in them. I dont care what you go up against. Your going to have trouble wading through that many angry marines.

Well, DC don't need a chaplain at all. It's very much a waste.

While the LR is the best method for DC delivery, you are still going to run into assaulting what you opponent forces you to assault, and them all dying the next turn. You are paying on the order of 500 pts to kill one unit your opponent chooses.

Personally like it to clown car a huge unit of killy things that move slowly aka Honor guard for C:SM

Chapter master
10 man honor guard
MOTF
and two tech marines

omnashaiaing its way across the field is a sight to behold.

 minigun762 wrote:
How reliably can the Raven get your troops into assault if it has to hover?

It only hovers on the turn you assault. So whilst it may be blasted from the sky, its units will have already disembarked, assuming of course it wasnt shot down whilst zooming. Also going into hover to get rear armour shots and prevent it flying off the board is often a great advantage. Especially if you run more than 1 and get them to hover on the same turn, making your opponent either split target priorities or just focus on one.

Since the best way to use it is to transport a load of hard-eyed killers towards some unsuspecting slumbering victims, I find it best to go as balls to the wall as possible. I ignore difficult terrain, and it's extremely rare for me to fail a difficult terrain check. I charge them straight at my opponent. Since I play Salamanders, the high-volume guns tear up infantry squads, while the melta uses PotMS to target nearby enemy vehicles.

LRC does not have an "extremely rare" chance to immobilize, its actually pretty significant at 17%. If you move every turn through DT, you should suffer an immobilization every game on average.

I've personally lost a couple games because of a bad timing immobilization on the LRC as I try to ram the assault terminators down the enemy's throat.

I've not had a great deal of success this edition with LRC + assault terminators. Normally full speed ahead seems like the best answer since the assault terminators need to spend as many rounds in CC as possible to earn their points back. I have been considering swapping to an LRR for this reason.

In particular, I'm looking at it from the perspective of a BT player, so I'll be loading a scoring unit in it.

Part of me likes the bonus of a non-FOC slot Land Raider but at the end of the day, a Crusader squad just isn't tough enough to go toe to toe with a squad of Terminators.

This makes me wonder about just bunkering up inside the Land Raider and turning it into a mobile gun platform.

36" move and grav chute insertion(use your Marine variant name here; skies of whatever).

AV12 and 3HP means that you are not going to get shot down on the turn it comes in by 1 quad-gun.

Using it as a general transport is using it as a flying coffin; just bad tactics.

It is a rapid insertion bird, that then turns into a flying, fast moving, IFV.

The crusader used to be a killer of infantry, it is now a pot-shot-er of infantry; both other versions of land raider are more effective in their rolls than the Crusader. All it has going for it is huge capacity; which frankly puts most of its weapons and the transported squad's guns on hold(I'd Rather walk 8 tac termies), but when transporting gun-less or close range gunned models at least is has weapons to fire. It just shouldn't cost as much.

My main point is that, for its effectiveness, it is overpriced.

So if the StormRaven out guns the LRC, the best we can hope for is that the LRC will out transport the Raven.
The problem I see, for power armor squads, is that a Rhino and Raven are still cheaper than a single LRC.

I will never have my Stormraven arrive carrying any sort of cargo barring a small scout squad, unless I know my opponent cannot explode it with interceptor fire.

I will never walk into a match or tournament assuming my opponent cannot explode a Stormraven with intercept fire.

Maybe the GK LR Crusader, for only a few points more but with psybolt ammo and psychic pilot, is more worth the points?