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I was considering running an all DC fleshtearers list and was wondering how good it could do.

HQ:
160 Gabriel Seth
220 Astaoth the Grim

Troops:
590 14x Death Company w/ 2x PF, Land Raider Crusader w/ MM
275 10x DC w/ Power Fist, Rhino
275 10x DC w/ Power Fist, Rhino
135 5x Death company w/ Drop pod, Bolters

Elites:
170 Furioso Dread w/ Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
170 Furioso Dread w/ Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

Yes I know astaroth would have to hop behind the raider and then join the squad for the charge.

just hope you wipe your opponent since DC cannot score objectives.

surely you could just give the death company jet packs?

Imagine your list at the battle field. Two Pods with Dreads arrive asap and can eventually do some damage with the built-in meltas. Beware the melta syndrome.
At the same time, the LRC will move forward and the PotMS can shoot one weapon (melta?). Moreover, the two Rhinos will rush forward too.
I guess the damage output will be quite low. This will give the enemy time to react: Down the Dreads, move away from the LRC, and immobilize the Rhinos.
This is how the game may start. Not convincing if you ask me.

Was considering putting beacons on the pods and making the 2 rhinos pods as well. The other idea for this list though is that yes the raider is gonna be slow, but the rhinos can move 12 in the movement phase and 12 in the shooting phase. Yes they have time to react, but even if the rhinos pop, oh noes the DC get out and walk. I could make the raider a flyer with less DC, change the 2 rhino DC to drop pod DC and start with asolutely nothing on the field turn 1. Let me rewrite the list and I'll post that one as well


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HQ:
160 Gabriel Seth
220 Astaoth the Grim

Elites:
170 Furioso Dread w/ Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
170 Furioso Dread w/ Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
170 Furioso Dread w/ Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

Troops:
230 9x Death Company w/ 2x PF
260 10x Death Company w/ PF, Drop Pod
260 10x Death Company w/ PF, Drop Pod
160 5x Death Company w/ PF, Drop Pod

Heavy Support:
200 Storm Raven w/ TL Las, TL MM


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Also Death company jump packs are stupid expensive per model. As and idea a squad of 3 DC w/ jump packs is more expensive than giving the 3 man squad a drop pod. So no, not going to bother with those

I love DC lists. The thing is those dc models provide anti infantry and mcs in droves. I think your second list is better but I would drop Seth and give the 5man some jps and run them in the raven with astorath so he has a squad with him. Give the pod to the 9man.
Atm that will have saved you 85pts.
I would then change 2 of the furiosos to dc dreads with meltaguns, magna grapples and talons for AT on the drop and anti meq afterwards.
Now at 75pts.
If you now drop a pf and 4 men off the 9man you can afford a 5 man sternguard with 4 combi-meltas and an essential 7th pod for more anti tank.
This would leave you with 4 units coming down turn 1, and 3 pods with units, a raven, astorath and a jp dc still in reserve.
Depending on the opponent this could mean you drop 25 death co and 5 sterns, saving the dreads until after you have reduced the opponents anti tank or all 3 dreads and the sternies for a hard hitting alpha strike.


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The jp aren't too bad on a 5man btw, especially if deployed by raven. Still expensive though. You really need at least 5 if running astorath with no other jp models.

My idea was just having astorath riding with the the 9 man squad as well as seth in the raven. Also why DC dreads over furioso? They are the same points value minus Furioso get the +1 front armor?

Because with talons, if they get stuck into combat they are hilarious with the amount of attacks they have over a furioso. And with a melta gun and magna grapple they can cause a threat to vehicles on the drop. Don't get me wrong, the av12 is a strong counter point to taking them.
I personally think seth is pants. Whirlwind of gore is okish against hordes, but your entire list excels against horde.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Because with talons, if they get stuck into combat they are hilarious with the amount of attacks they have over a furioso. And with a melta gun and magna grapple they can cause a threat to vehicles on the drop. Don't get me wrong, the av12 is a strong counter point to taking them.
I personally think seth is pants. Whirlwind of gore is okish against hordes, but your entire list excels against horde.

Not the only thing Seth is good at.
S8 Rending weapon is great at assasinating enemy multiwound SM characters.

There is that... but for 160pts he's still pants :-p!

Although fun, DC lists are not competitive. The units are too easy to tie up and they cannot score.

Tau, Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Grey Knights, either Eldar, and Daemons would eat both lists.

Its hard to tie up an entire army. He has 4 death co units. The amount you would have to spend to afford 4 units that could reliably tie up a unit that is hitting them with 45 st 5 and 4 st 9 ap 2 attacks is pretty hefty. You don't 'tie up' multiple DC units, its hardly even possible. What you do is try and shoot them to pieces and stay out of charge range.
A DC list has a lot of hard counters... the most obvious being errrrr scoring lol. But if you want to invest substantially in units to 'tie up' his DC im sure icefire will be happy to oblige.
Secondly, what all rounder ultramarine and salamander lists will eat his lists alive? Eldar and a demon flying circus will decimate it, granted. A tau gunline and SW will give it a fair run for its money but not eat it alive by default.


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If any of the c:sm lists will cause it problems, it is a fast moving biker scars list.

That or Iron hands. That many Iron Clads ughhhh, that will be a nightmare. I agree a lot of lists will give me huge trouble, hell drakes being one of the first. I can always hope to go first and get locked into melee before the hell drakes pour in or go second lose a few guys to the flamers then have my raven start shooting drakes out of the skies. Scoring will be a nightmare yes, I'm going to have to attempt to wipe out troops first things first. With all drop pods though and the raven the bonus is my army can make melee turn 2. Not many armies can deal with an all drop pod assault and still hold the line after only 1 shooting phase.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Its hard to tie up an entire army. He has 4 death co units. The amount you would have to spend to afford 4 units that could reliably tie up a unit that is hitting them with 45 st 5 and 4 st 9 ap 2 attacks is pretty hefty. You don't 'tie up' multiple DC units, its hardly even possible. What you do is try and shoot them to pieces and stay out of charge range.
A DC list has a lot of hard counters... the most obvious being errrrr scoring lol. But if you want to invest substantially in units to 'tie up' his DC im sure icefire will be happy to oblige.
Secondly, what all rounder ultramarine and salamander lists will eat his lists alive? Eldar and a demon flying circus will decimate it, granted. A tau gunline and SW will give it a fair run for its money but not eat it alive by default.


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If any of the c:sm lists will cause it problems, it is a fast moving biker scars list.

Pretty easy with Salamander and Ultramairnes actually with the new Codex. Salamanders can drop in at will and deliver in range of 15 to 20 flamer wounds alone, per unit. Throw in MC powerifsts ro finish off what survives is not too hard to do, I run Salamanders and have wiped out Terminator heavy lists with this same tactic. Ultramarines have the use of 3 to 4 chapter abilities that turn average rolling into hard hitting player turns. When you are hit with re-rollable Sternguard hits delivering AP 3 hits how many Feel No Pains can be rolled.

As for tieing up units, I somewhat misstated my intention. Mainly, close in and torrent fire the units then tie up in assault. The key of course is to not allow the DC to assault, this can largely be accomplished although at times it may be difficult. But proper support of your own units should allow you to correct and deal with the unit or two that gets to grips on its terms.

We have a number of BA players in my area and no one runs DC lists except for fun and not tourneys. The reason is that against a quality opponent you will almost never get a table win which is what you need. Like I stated earlier fun list, but not competitive in the least. I run a BA drop Dread list that is loads of fun but not compettive for a variett of reasons as well. Just because it can do wicked things against some lists doesn't mean that it will.


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icefire78 wrote:
That or Iron hands. That many Iron Clads ughhhh, that will be a nightmare. I agree a lot of lists will give me huge trouble, hell drakes being one of the first. I can always hope to go first and get locked into melee before the hell drakes pour in or go second lose a few guys to the flamers then have my raven start shooting drakes out of the skies. Scoring will be a nightmare yes, I'm going to have to attempt to wipe out troops first things first. With all drop pods though and the raven the bonus is my army can make melee turn 2. Not many armies can deal with an all drop pod assault and still hold the line after only 1 shooting phase.

Hey not trying to rain on your parade or anything, I hope that you didn't take my comments as bashing your list. I always try to evaluate a potential list in a competitive sense. Good luck with your BA and have fun.

Due to scoring issues you will lose more than you win I reckon. I made a similar dc list and accepted this fact before i made it. The idea is obviously to table or at least kill all opponents scoring units. When you do win you will win big. I reckon you will decimate static gunlines, some non skimmer mech builds and horde lists. That raven is essential for AA.
I would defo make sure you have 7 pods though and if not changing the furiosos to dc dreads at least change 2 to AT furiosos with grapples melta and frag cannon (2 guarenteed st6 rending hits is pretty nice against side and rear armour or av10 squadrons).
With a DC build you do have a greater chance to table, the problem is you will rely on tabling and its still not a huge chance.
Exceptionally fun to play though.
On a side note, I have 30 dc with jps, 20 beautifully painted and 10 still grey so i can use them as assault marines. Imagine how much I cant wait for a new dex so those models actually have a point that isnt 35pt plasma practice!


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 Inquisitor Lord Cuthbert wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Its hard to tie up an entire army. He has 4 death co units. The amount you would have to spend to afford 4 units that could reliably tie up a unit that is hitting them with 45 st 5 and 4 st 9 ap 2 attacks is pretty hefty. You don't 'tie up' multiple DC units, its hardly even possible. What you do is try and shoot them to pieces and stay out of charge range.
A DC list has a lot of hard counters... the most obvious being errrrr scoring lol. But if you want to invest substantially in units to 'tie up' his DC im sure icefire will be happy to oblige.
Secondly, what all rounder ultramarine and salamander lists will eat his lists alive? Eldar and a demon flying circus will decimate it, granted. A tau gunline and SW will give it a fair run for its money but not eat it alive by default.


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If any of the c:sm lists will cause it problems, it is a fast moving biker scars list.

Pretty easy with Salamander and Ultramairnes actually with the new Codex. Salamanders can drop in at will and deliver in range of 15 to 20 flamer wounds alone, per unit. Throw in MC powerifsts ro finish off what survives is not too hard to do, I run Salamanders and have wiped out Terminator heavy lists with this same tactic. Ultramarines have the use of 3 to 4 chapter abilities that turn average rolling into hard hitting player turns. When you are hit with re-rollable Sternguard hits delivering AP 3 hits how many Feel No Pains can be rolled.

As for tieing up units, I somewhat misstated my intention. Mainly, close in and torrent fire the units then tie up in assault. The key of course is to not allow the DC to assault, this can largely be accomplished although at times it may be difficult. But proper support of your own units should allow you to correct and deal with the unit or two that gets to grips on its terms.

We have a number of BA players in my area and no one runs DC lists except for fun and not tourneys. The reason is that against a quality opponent you will almost never get a table win which is what you need. Like I stated earlier fun list, but not competitive in the least. I run a BA drop Dread list that is loads of fun but not compettive for a variett of reasons as well. Just because it can do wicked things against some lists doesn't mean that it will.


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icefire78 wrote:
That or Iron hands. That many Iron Clads ughhhh, that will be a nightmare. I agree a lot of lists will give me huge trouble, hell drakes being one of the first. I can always hope to go first and get locked into melee before the hell drakes pour in or go second lose a few guys to the flamers then have my raven start shooting drakes out of the skies. Scoring will be a nightmare yes, I'm going to have to attempt to wipe out troops first things first. With all drop pods though and the raven the bonus is my army can make melee turn 2. Not many armies can deal with an all drop pod assault and still hold the line after only 1 shooting phase.

Hey not trying to rain on your parade or anything, I hope that you didn't take my comments as bashing your list. I always try to evaluate a potential list in a competitive sense. Good luck with your BA and have fun.

Oh I agree that it is not competative especially not in tourneys.
How many flamers are you expecting to fire at a unit to get 15-20 flamer wounds btw?
Also remember if going 1st you will be dropping onto an empty board.

 Inquisitor Lord Cuthbert wrote:


Pretty easy with Salamander and Ultramairnes actually with the new Codex. Salamanders can drop in at will and deliver in range of 15 to 20 flamer wounds alone, per unit. Throw in MC powerifsts ro finish off what survives is not too hard to do, I run Salamanders and have wiped out Terminator heavy lists with this same tactic. Ultramarines have the use of 3 to 4 chapter abilities that turn average rolling into hard hitting player turns. When you are hit with re-rollable Sternguard hits delivering AP 3 hits how many Feel No Pains can be rolled.

May I ask what unit you mean by those 15-20 flamer shots? (I assume it's Sternguard now).
Well yes, it can bring pain but when referring to this spesific list, I'd like to see you flame the DC out of those Rhinos

To the point, let's assume there were 10 DC with CCW's. You pod in with 2 HF's, a few combi-flamers and a PF.
Make those 15 wounds? Well congratulations, the DC will most likely just laugh at that, losing average of 3 guys. You won't be charging with that Power Fist, and you won't be alive to hit with it after you have been dealt 35 WS5 S5 hits (with propably some PW's there). You just spent about 150-200 points to kill maybe 5 DC's. Good try.

In truth dropping anything near/ in front of a DC squad that WON'T wipe them out or reduce to 1-3 men is a bad idea and that unit will most likely die horribly the following turn. DC do that sorta thing. 5 man DC on the charge can almost take out 5 terminators. TH/SS or no. ofc, I always put one TH per 5 DC when I run them

I figured this list won't win. I'm probably still going to take it to tourneys though. The last 2 tourney's I've been in have been my ravenwing army and people are getting tired of fighting that. I Like lists that have some semblance of randomness and hilarity to them. The list of I can't capture points goes right in line with my armies.

I suggest going for the angelic host army, its super fluffy, fun, and just awesome when fully painted.

here is a round about figure of how it would look. (imo)

Dante
(Sanguinor or mephy)
Dante- 225
Sanguinor- 275
3 Sanguinary priests w/ jump pack and power weapons- 270 (all in Sang.Guard units)
Sanguinary guard w/ chapter banner and dante w/ drop pod- 265
Sanguinary guard w/ drop pod- 235
Sanguinary guard w/ drop pod- 235
Furioso Librarian Dread w/ force weapon+ blood talon in drop pod – 200
Storm Raven gunship- 200
With 100 points to mix and match some stuff.

sanguinor arrives in storm raven ( sorta fluffy with him arriving when he is needed

hmmm, that seems fun. I never really looked at dante, but I'm guessing he makes sanguinary scoring or something? that whole army though is what 26 models? That seems like the elite of the elite there.

yeah he makes them troops. its fun, not "competitive" but hey, you get to ignore hell drakes with 2+s only downside is no invulns. possibly consider taking a libby instead of the 2nd guy for slightly more competitive (5+ cover that stacks)

Also mephy may be the best bet, either roll on biomancy for him, or just give him shield of sanguinis and go that direction instead.

if you have extra wings put them on mephy, wings of sanguinius allows it and looks amazing. all my guys have/will have wings (excluding normal non-jumppack troops)

icefire78 wrote:
Was considering putting beacons on the pods and making the 2 rhinos pods as well. The other idea for this list though is that yes the raider is gonna be slow, but the rhinos can move 12 in the movement phase and 12 in the shooting phase. Yes they have time to react, but even if the rhinos pop, oh noes the DC get out and walk. I could make the raider a flyer with less DC, change the 2 rhino DC to drop pod DC and start with asolutely nothing on the field turn 1. Let me rewrite the list and I'll post that one as well


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HQ:
160 Gabriel Seth
220 Astaoth the Grim

Elites:
170 Furioso Dread w/ Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
170 Furioso Dread w/ Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod
170 Furioso Dread w/ Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod

Troops:
230 9x Death Company w/ 2x PF
260 10x Death Company w/ PF, Drop Pod
260 10x Death Company w/ PF, Drop Pod
160 5x Death Company w/ PF, Drop Pod

Heavy Support:
200 Storm Raven w/ TL Las, TL MM


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Also Death company jump packs are stupid expensive per model. As and idea a squad of 3 DC w/ jump packs is more expensive than giving the 3 man squad a drop pod. So no, not going to bother with those

Hmmm... Well this is what I would take (beware I don't like death company!)

HQ
Dante

Elite
Furiso dread
Terminators cyclone missile launcher
2 sang priests jump packs

Troops
Sanguinary guard
sanguinary guard
Tactical squad 10 men missile launcher

Heavy support
Stormraven lasscannons melta
Vindicator hunter-killer missile
5 plasma cannon devs

Dedicated transport
Land raider

This (me thinks) could probably eat you all up with land raiders and rhino's being popped first turn by my 18" movement vindicator and 4 plasma cannons.