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As a commission painter, do you permit your customers to supply you with the mini that needs painted, or do you supply the mini and build it into the cost? The reason I ask is that Finecast can be such a nightmare to prep and repair, how do you price it fairly not knowing how much work might have to go into the piece?

I'm no commission painter, but I have seen many services that will offer to purchase the mini and paint it up as well. They simply figure the cost of purchase, prep and assembly into the overall cost. If you're worried about the amount of effort involved simply create a pricing system for different types of models based on the average of what you think you'll have to do. So one for plastic, pewter, finecast and broken down by size like, 28mm, 58mm, vehicle etc etc. That's my suggestion. It will require a good bit of figuring out but can provide for an easier estimate of cost. And I'd say for sure keep the person updated on the figure itself, not only for time purpose to show you're working on what they have, but also in case it comes to you in a slagged heap you can tell the customer and figure out a plan as to replace/repair it.

I think the problem with FC and commissions is that people keep sending them badly cast miniatures.

A lot of the commission painters I know wont touch finecast myself included, Its too much of a risk.

sing your life wrote:I think the problem with FC and commissions is that people keep sending them badly cast miniatures.

That's what I'm most concerned about: if I don't know the condition of a fig, I can't give a fair estimate on the cost to prep. All miniatures have the potential for flaws, but Finecast QC and the material are a challenge. I don't want to get into a mailing/postage loop with a customer or manufacturer trying to remedy miscasts.

GiraffeX wrote:A lot of the commission painters I know wont touch finecast myself included, Its too much of a risk.

I'd hate to exclude a bunch of customers, but I'd hate even more to work for free. Just wondering if there's some middle ground...

 the_Armyman wrote:

sing your life wrote:I think the problem with FC and commissions is that people keep sending them badly cast miniatures.

That's what I'm most concerned about: if I don't know the condition of a fig, I can't give a fair estimate on the cost to prep. All miniatures have the potential for flaws, but Finecast QC and the material are a challenge. I don't want to get into a mailing/postage loop with a customer or manufacturer trying to remedy miscasts.

GiraffeX wrote:A lot of the commission painters I know wont touch finecast myself included, Its too much of a risk.

I'd hate to exclude a bunch of customers, but I'd hate even more to work for free. Just wondering if there's some middle ground...

You could always offer a service of finding the original white metal version of the mini.......

you could tell them to buy and prep the model for you? you could still help fix it up a bit more if they missed anything if you're generous. if they leave it as a complete mess then it's basically on them.
or just charge extra?
or buy a metal one off ebay ?

Couldn't you say "You send the mini and it gets painted regardless of flaws"?

rigeld2 wrote:
Couldn't you say "You send the mini and it gets painted regardless of flaws"?

You could say this but it could harm the painters reputation as other people will ask "Who painted that?", word spreads a lot faster when its not pleasant.

Of course there is the option of a metal version from ebay or a kit bash which can be better than the original.

Its not just the flaws with finecast as they can be fixed its the ability for parts to bend into the wrong position after being painted (like in transit) that really are a big no no from my perspective. Some of the power swords I've seen the wielder would be lucky to not poke his own eye out

For me it's simply a case of time. Most of the fine cast I've touched (and its not been a lot) has been so terribly flawed as to need basically a full days work to fix to a basic workable standard.

I also insist on buying it in person. That way I can call it off and refund the customer if necessary.

 the_Armyman wrote:

sing your life wrote:I think the problem with FC and commissions is that people keep sending them badly cast miniatures.

That's what I'm most concerned about: if I don't know the condition of a fig, I can't give a fair estimate on the cost to prep. All miniatures have the potential for flaws, but Finecast QC and the material are a challenge. I don't want to get into a mailing/postage loop with a customer or manufacturer trying to remedy miscasts.

GiraffeX wrote:A lot of the commission painters I know wont touch finecast myself included, Its too much of a risk.

I'd hate to exclude a bunch of customers, but I'd hate even more to work for free. Just wondering if there's some middle ground...

You could ask people to send you photos of the mini if you're concerned.

I've done a couple of finecast commissions in the past:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dullspork/6906948137/

The above minis had issues, but they weren't really any worse that I would expect from any resin-cast mini from a garage-kit manufacturer. Most of the issues were not insurmountable. They added some work, but not a great deal more.

My approach would be to:

A: Review the model in question and decide how much work it would be to fix.
B: If it requires a great deal of extra effort then two things could happen - 1. Charge more to fix the issues 2. Attempt to get a replacement with fewer issues.

Obviously, getting a replacement takes time that you may not have.

The thing is, Finecast models are not universally flawed. Some are, some are not. Commissions that include them just need to be handled in their own way. Saying that you won't take them at all just limits your possible income. Most of their flaws can be fixed by a competent modeler. Now and again they cannot. One can always say "no, I'm not going to be able to fix that" once reviewing the issues.

I would never paint a finecast model for anyone unless I got to see it first. Heck, some of the forgeworld models I worked on were so bad I almost didn't touch them.
If I were going to set up a painting service, I'd stipulate that unless it was a rare model (OOP, games day exclusive, etc) or a large one (forgeworld big stuff) the cost of buying the model would be included in the price. Repositioning, pinning, filing and removing excess...crap.... is not worth the time. Models should be supplied unassembled and unpainted unless you get to see them first in person.

I wouldn't take a commisioned FC model until I got 4+ clear pictures showing the model's quality.

I appreciate all the input, fellas. It looks like purchasing the minis myself and giving the customer a fair expectation of the amount of prep work in advance is the best practice.

I paint and use FC n a regular basis. It really is a quality resin. Yes there are occasion miscasts but welcome to resin casting. I have 20FC models in my army and only had to do minimal work on them and they never break.

If someone wants me to do FC is cost just as muh as a normal resin figure. A little more then normal plastic because it beens to be washed and prepped and there are usually better and more details to be painted.

Id be tempted to say no to FC... Am quite capable at modelling and 'could' fix them... but won't even get them for use in my own collection after the first one I got!

The suggestion that its a quality resin... I'm laughing at! Its too soft, is floppy, bendy, full of bubbles, and flaws, and wilts and flops over under the slightest bit of heat.... all in all its a piss poor material choice for casting gaming mini's with as they get moved, handled and carried about regularly. And sold to all countries... even ones much warmer than the UK where theyre made - we get heat floppyness of FC resin here... so I really feel for anyone actually in a warm climbate!)
I can't actually think of one good point about it (thats not excessively outweighed by all its bad points)

If I were to do one, it'd be expensive! To account for all the extra work involved. Its a real shame because the sculpts are mostly brilliant... let down so much by the material choice that many wont even touch it with a 10 foot pole! (theyre garbage before you even see the price tag)

The one finecast mini I have, I've had for over a year now, not wanting to paint it cus its just really disappointing. Finally got round to including it in a batch of other figures that have a similar scheme. But I think I'l be replacing it entirely with a converted plastic mini.

If you do one though; just a tip... I've found that Fairy Power Spray, and 99% isoproyl alcohol both are okay for stripping FC resin pieces without damaging the details.

The hyperbole doesn't help. I have multiple FC minis that survive just fine in my trunk in Texas heat. Not every mini works in FC (obviously lots of diddly bits don't do well) but my Hive Guard are fine.

rigeld2 wrote:
The hyperbole doesn't help. I have multiple FC minis that survive just fine in my trunk in Texas heat. Not every mini works in FC (obviously lots of diddly bits don't do well) but my Hive Guard are fine.

What concerns me more about FC is how inconsistent it is. You say you've got figures that are fine under Texas heat in the trunk of your car. Which I'm guessing gets a bit toasty.
While here in the UK, the weathers often less than great, its never all that warm, or all that cold, and we get figures that cant hold themselves up, not all of them seem to do it, just some. Meaning there's quite the difference from batch to batch of this stuff. For a premium price point item, I want a premium quality material. This cannot be described as such
And that's before you even get to chatting about the casting quality control issues; models pulled from molds too soon, resulting in deformed figures that dont fit right, or the shrinkage factor of the resin being so high that some parts with large cross sections aren't the right size any more. Bit of a joke in all honesty, the name they gave it is just laughable!

Finecast is fine these days. The early days were rough, but still not as tough as many people make it out to be. I've owned four or five fc models and have never had to return any

BrotherVord wrote:
Finecast is fine these days. The early days were rough, but still not as tough as many people make it out to be. I've owned four or five fc models and have never had to return any

Lol gota say its anything but 'fine', its totally unacceptable that they even had those problems (which afaik still are rife) Most of which is either coming from the casting staff being in experienced, or the material is so crap that even experienced casters cant do it right.
Quality control seems to be non-existant, theyre quite happy to let piss poor casts fly off the shelves knowing that many wont bother to return it. Its unscrupulous. Edging on dishonest (they do name it 'fine' cast.. when the casts are not fine, in many cases not even remotely good.
The one figure I bought in FC, I didnt return because frankly I dont want it... even if it was a perfect cast (which its not), the material is not suitable for a gaming mini full stop.
The only positive thing I can think of about it is that its cheaper than white metal... but wait.. its not cheaper to the consumer is it? just for GW to pull an even greater margin on.
I realise I sound like a hater but far from it, I love GW, their models, their books, its something thats always interested me. But FC was just a gouge too far from GW, totally unforgivable! I'd sooner buy a forgery in real resin than that crap tbh.