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Hello all, so first I'll give a bit of background. Skip this paragraph if you don't care. My friends and I started playing 40k around August and have been hooked ever since. We tend to just play against each other for now, as we still don't have a full understanding of all the rules of the game. I chose Necrons, while the others chose Tyranids, Eldar, Grey Knights, and Blood Angels. So far we are up to 1500 point games, moving up to 1750. While I thoroughly enjoy playing the Necrons, I can never seem to beat the Blood Angels and Space Marines. I've tried a dozen different tactics, but every time it comes down to them using an armor save and passing no problem. At this point I've been changing up m army at every game to see if something will work. I know a lot of people say Grey Knights are OP, but I understand that that misconception comes from the fact that their weakness lies in a very good understanding of the rules. Blood Angels on the other hand, I can't say much, as he tends to bring in his map-clearing HQ every chance he gets.

In short, I have major problems beating Blood Angels and Grey Knights, and I need assistance with tactics against them, as well as recommendations for army builds. Yes, I've done research, and I can never find help fighting Space Marines specifically as Necrons.
My current collection consists of

3 Wraiths
10 Scarabs
32 Warriors
5 Lychguard w/ Swords n Boards
1 Lord w/ Res Orb
1 Overlord w/ Res Orb
1 Cryptek
1 Vargard Obyron
1 Annihilation Barge
1 Ghost Ark
5 Deathmarks

I know of one tactic using 2 Ghost Arks and 60 Warriors to create a wall of fire, but when I tried something similar to that, the enemy simply ate the shots, got within charging range, and demolished me. I know my best chance is keeping everything together, but cramming all those warriors into a tight area gets tough. Also, still not sure what Cryptek Harbinger is best for fighting Blood Angels and Grey Knights. I'm thinking buying a battleforce for the second Ghost Ark and 20 more warriors, then buying 12 more., attempting the wall tactic. Otherwise i'm a bit stuck. I want to get spiders, but that just gets so damn expensive. I do have budgets, but I just need help against these two damn high AP high save armies. I appreciate your time, so please understand that I value criticism that is correctly based, because I in fact did a lot of research and have 4 bookmarks on Necron tactics.

you need 2 more anihilation barges , scyths for your 5 man scoring units more wrights and maybe a destroyer lord .Also a command barrage overlord as your HQ. Right now you seem to have a very static force with lots of warriors .

As for a cryptek take the one that can take the low ap flamer. with deathmarks he will teleport around and hit everything on +2.

Although what Makumba suggests is indeed the pathway to a super competitive build I somehow get the sense that you have a laid back group, not necessarily one that is all into tournament builds, and thus I would like to state that it's not necessary to run that kind of build to have a strong list. That's not to say they aren't strong elements and you shouldn't use them, but it's not necessary.

Given what you have, you're a little all over the place with your models, and I fear you're really, really stretching the limits of them at even 1500 points, let alone 1750.

What Necrons excel at is just rate of fire. We don't have a lot of cost efficient at range low AP weapons. Generally, we handle them via Warscythe and rending attacks from Wraiths (or the occasional hyperphase sword lychguard). Instead we normally, we drown those low armor save units in wounds. This is where Tesla comes in. Tesla Immortals and especially Tesla Destructors shine here. I personally love my Barges for the amount of damage they reek on infantry and light vehicles alike. Also, Gauss spam works really well too. We are one of the fewer armies who rely on their troops to do damage (assuming you're not playing scythe or wraith spam) and thus plentiful Gauss and Tesla weaponry are expected, even wanted.

So, since it seems you do want to go the Gauss spam route, let's talk about it a little bit. The Brick can work and is very effective at absorbing shooting. It's almost impossible to put down at range with Res Orb and Ghost Ark support, however as you said they die in droves if anything gets into close combat. There are a few ways to deal with this. The first is to make sure that your lords are kitted out for combat. Meaning Warscythes, MSS, and Semp Weaves. This is expensive when coupled with the res orb, but it can help you mitigate the amount of damage you take/improve how much you do a little bit. A second option is to have a counter assault element (scarabs, wraiths, or your lychguard) to deter or intercept anything that wants to charge your blob. Another way is to have smaller Warrior or Immortal squads for screening. Put them in front of your bigger squads to prevent the charge. This requires a little play testing as you need to get used to positioning your models in a way to prevent this, but it can really help protect your squishier/more valuable bits.

Also, I'd like to mention that the Brick is more of a mid-late game build. Don't expect it to kill tons of stuff the first two turns. It needs time to get it range, but it has the durability to do so if you can prevent anything from sweeping it away in combat. Once it does get in range, that's when the pain is unleashed.

Although for a quick solution, deathmarks with a despairtek are extremely useful in this situation. They are really good for sniping high priority targets and denying those armor saves.

For future purchase suggestions I would recommend at least one more barge. Two if preferable. And the free HQ you get with them! They're so good at what they do and compliment your fire power nicely. Or if you prefer, you can go the Lith route and represent more old school crons with 2 ap3 str8 templates. That's really expensive though. At least 3 more wraiths help, as 3 are extremely squishy. Really, that's all I have right now to suggest.

Monoliths! They dont do much for winning tons, but its the pimpyest model in the game. (they will also let you move your troops fast)

Personally, I would swap out your Lychguard for Deathmarks and a Harbinger of Despair with Veil of Darkness (hereafter referred to as a 'veiltek').

This unit deep strikes in next to something very, very scary and kills it instantly using the combination of Hunters from Hyperspace granting 2+ to wound and AP1 on the Abyssal Staff, which incidentally also ignores cover. Favoured targets are Assault Terminators, Centurions and Veteran squads.

Wraiths need to be in larger squads to be truly terrifying, but you only need whip coils half of them, which helps save on the cost.

Running Scarabs on their own is a bit of a pot luck - they work best when combined with a Canoptek Spyder or two.

A really fun melee beatstick unit is 3 Canoptek Spyders led by Vargaard Obyron, since they can teleport to keep up with the Scarab swarms, reinforcing them all the while, and between the Warscythe and the Spyders' Smash Attacks they'll go through any vehicle or walker in the game, making them perfect for finishing off anything the scarabs don't chew through.

Ideally, you want a Necron Lord for every Warrior squad you field. The warscythe and mindshackle scarabs give them great counter-assault potential, while the ressurection orb will keep them on the field much longer. If you splurge on a second Overlord, you can also do something really nasty and also put a Harbinger of Despair in each warrior squad, giving them truly vicious overwatch potential.

The goal here is to make the enemy really think twice about whether they actually want to charge that warrior blob, since it'll potentially result in losing 3 Marines on the charge, followed by another Marine's attacks (probably the sergeant if you're smart about consolidating) to the Mindshackle Scarabs, followed by two to the Warscythe.

Thanks for all the input so fast guys, it means a lot. Like KelCJ said, we do mostly play for fun, so I guess I'm not really looking for fancy tactics and rule navigation. I plan to create the Scarab congo-line army far in the future. So I got that I need more wraiths, and 2 more barges. So I don't need another ghost ark for now? On another note, the guy playing GK tries to spam psycannons and other blast weapons. What can I do to handle this?

While I agree with everything said so far, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is a Destroyer Lord. Put him in a unit of 6 wraiths, and you'll have a pretty heavy-duty close combat unit.

The best advice against blast weapons is the most simple: Make full use of your 2" unit coherency. It can be really annoying to measure every single model to make sure they're 2 inches apart, but it will absolutely save you against blasts.

wfischer wrote:
While I agree with everything said so far, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is a Destroyer Lord. Put him in a unit of 6 wraiths, and you'll have a pretty heavy-duty close combat unit.

The best advice against blast weapons is the most simple: Make full use of your 2" unit coherency. It can be really annoying to measure every single model to make sure they're 2 inches apart, but it will absolutely save you against blasts.

Well, I know everyone talks about using destroyers, but, well, this might sound a bit stupid, but I've made a dynasty with it's own lore, and part of it is not being an aggressive group, and destoryers and flayers tend to be, well, aggressive. I've I absolutely HAVE to have destroyers, I guess I'll have to deal with it, but I'd rather not recruit the bloodlust of those things.

But there is no other HQ to join the wrights other then an overloard with a destroyer body .

Against blast aside for being wright and 2" away from each other , the best thing is to sit in a flyer. flyers can't be targetd by blast weapons , because those can't snap fire.

So let the wraiths fly on their own. They're just canoptek bots, it's not like they matter in the grand scheme of things.

You have the same problem that i did early on in my 40k career. You want a bit of everything. Honestly its fun to have a bit of everything but a bit pricey in the long run. Itd probably be a good idea to look at some lists people have been made in the 40k lists section.

Metrosoda wrote:

wfischer wrote:
While I agree with everything said so far, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is a Destroyer Lord. Put him in a unit of 6 wraiths, and you'll have a pretty heavy-duty close combat unit.

The best advice against blast weapons is the most simple: Make full use of your 2" unit coherency. It can be really annoying to measure every single model to make sure they're 2 inches apart, but it will absolutely save you against blasts.

Well, I know everyone talks about using destroyers, but, well, this might sound a bit stupid, but I've made a dynasty with it's own lore, and part of it is not being an aggressive group, and destoryers and flayers tend to be, well, aggressive. I've I absolutely HAVE to have destroyers, I guess I'll have to deal with it, but I'd rather not recruit the bloodlust of those things.

Destroyers are nice and seem to cover the AP3 issue.

If an army has lore/theme then that means conversions and "count as" is in the realm of possibilities.

Can use the Anchorites from Forgeworld as destroyers.
Treat as Canoptek sentries fluff wise.

Destroyer Lords can be a converted Wraith with Cryptek head and carrying Warscythe..
Fluff: Was a Cryptek obsessed with maintenance of the Tomb World so placed his body into a wraith to get around. Do not have codex on me but maybe give him Phase Shifter?
Has Preferred Enemy because he is pissed off at Xenos interrupting him and making a mess.

-Dert

 DerT84 wrote:

Metrosoda wrote:

wfischer wrote:
While I agree with everything said so far, one thing I haven't seen mentioned is a Destroyer Lord. Put him in a unit of 6 wraiths, and you'll have a pretty heavy-duty close combat unit.

The best advice against blast weapons is the most simple: Make full use of your 2" unit coherency. It can be really annoying to measure every single model to make sure they're 2 inches apart, but it will absolutely save you against blasts.

Well, I know everyone talks about using destroyers, but, well, this might sound a bit stupid, but I've made a dynasty with it's own lore, and part of it is not being an aggressive group, and destoryers and flayers tend to be, well, aggressive. I've I absolutely HAVE to have destroyers, I guess I'll have to deal with it, but I'd rather not recruit the bloodlust of those things.

Destroyers are nice and seem to cover the AP3 issue.

If an army has lore/theme then that means conversions and "count as" is in the realm of possibilities.

Can use the Anchorites from Forgeworld as destroyers.
Treat as Canoptek sentries fluff wise.

Destroyer Lords can be a converted Wraith with Cryptek head and carrying Warscythe..
Fluff: Was a Cryptek obsessed with maintenance of the Tomb World so placed his body into a wraith to get around. Do not have codex on me but maybe give him Phase Shifter?
Has Preferred Enemy because he is pissed off at Xenos interrupting him and making a mess.

-Dert

Ha, I really like that idea. I don't really want to tweak rules to make it work though, so I guess creating that and just using destroyer rules works. However, Im seeing issues with hq limits here. I need one lord per unit of warriors, (2 lords w/ res orb), and one destroyer lord to stick with wraiths. How can I make that work? Destroyer lord doesn't have phaeron upgrade does he? Also, something else I was looking into in the far future was playing Orks. I realized that they are AoC with Necrons, so maybe bring in a squad with my army for giggles, as they are worshiping the metal beings for their ability to provide many enemies to fight and teeth to collect. On one last note, from what I'm reading, I should avoid flyers as my current focus is infantry fire? If I understand right, I don't want to spread my focus out to much and have a bunch of stuff that doesn't make a proper army?

can't necron overlords take take courts which can have normal lords and crypteks ?

Makumba wrote:
can't necron overlords take take courts which can have normal lords and crypteks ?

Well, you have to upgrade the Overlord (30 pts), THEN you get to have a royal court full of fun. So if I brought the destroyer lord and a phaeron overlord, THEN i could use lords and crypteks, but that would end up costing a LOT of points.

You do NOT need to take the Phaeron upgrade to take a Royal Court.

Phaeron only makes the Overlord and the squad he joins Relentless. That's all it does. You can take a naked Overlord for 90 points and put his royal court wherever you like, as long as there's no more than 1 courtier in each squad.

Metrosoda wrote:
So I don't need another ghost ark for now? On another note, the guy playing GK tries to spam psycannons and other blast weapons. What can I do to handle this?

You can get another Ghost Ark if you want. Two are good for redundancy but they do take up a lot of points.

Also, as has been said, max coherency is your best friend versus blasts as well as cover. Always helps.

Orks can make good allies for Crons because of their cheapness. Just lay down two squads of boys with all the trimmings, some lootas and a battlewagon (or looted wagon for fun) and you have a solid base. Of course, if you don't want to go that route there is always 5-6 nob bikers with a painboy and a warboss that can really put the hurt/be a good bullet sponge for weaker units.