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Hey fellow Dakka'ers,

I'm looking at dipping my toe into the 40k world as I've been interested in the game and fluff for quite some time now. I am quite the fan of both Dark Angels and Chaos so I know I'll get the Dark Vengeance box set. However, as I understand the box itself isn't balanced nor is the Dark Angels army legal out of the box. I'm planning on playing the two armies vs. each for a longer-ish time so currently I'm really only concerned with balancing them against each other and not so much other armies or within the meta. Additionally, I'd like to keep the lists WYSIWYG with what comes with Dark Vengeance (I'll be magnetizing anything else I need to buy for extra variety or for needing to fill out Dark Vengeance weaknesses).

So basically, my criteria would be as follows.
1. Armies fairly balanced against each other (both points wise and having things to deal with each other's units)
2. Having both Armies be legal
3. No allies
4. Using Dark Vengeance models WYSIWYG
5. Preferably no big vehicles (but this isn't totally necessary if somethings NEEDS to be in for balance sake)

6. Finally and pseudo-most importantly I wouldn't want to be inflating the armies to both be bigger. Mostly I want to stick with Dark Vengeance and just buy whatever I need to to balance it out. I'm interested in smaller point games.

Thanks everyone!

Hmm, I've noticed the chaos units in Dark Vengeance seem to have odd loadouts, for example melee chosen and the helbrute without a scourge, However, i think one way to balance the two armies would be to "mirror" one other and their choices. For example, some chaos bikers could be equivalent to the ravenwing bikers. One thing I've noticed is that with my local GM, (wouldn't be sure about you're local one though ) The the displayed armies on the gaming boards are dark vengeance models with extra things added, such as a forgefiend or MOAR cultists, if You're local GM is like that, maybe that could help with some of the models to look at getting. The other thing is that, how much points do you want to look at? If you want to have a small-ish point game (1000 points & under), they are quite easy to balance. However once we get over 1000 it turns into a poopstorm sometimes...Darn fliers...

Hope this helped!! ~Ashley

Actually: the Dark Angels Can be a legal army, but that involves using the Chapter master to proxy Azreal, since he will make both the terminators and the bikes count as troop choices.

The simplest way to expand your armies would be to buy a second Dark Vengeance. From there, its just a matter of making the lists.

Design the DA list to avoid using large blast templates, and flamers (( as much as I like my Whirlwind, it will decimate cultist squads))

Doesn't the DA part cost a lot more points then chaos ?

Both armies in the box are already *legal* armies if you play the DA captain as Azrael to allow either the ravenwing or deathwing squad to become a troops choice, but the DA points value is higher and its capabilities are much better. The only way to balance the armies as they are in DV and using DV minis as is would be to total up the points of both forces from the codecies (apologies, but I can seem to locate the point costs others have generated from back when DV was released, though you might be able to find it through a search of this forum), and then start removing parts of the DA army until it comes in at the same amount of points as the chaos side. One quick balancer is to remove the heavy plasma cannon from the DA side. It far outclasses any thing the chaos side has on the table. The multimelta on the helbrute is more potent, but with its short range is not as big a threat. From there you can pull out the librarian or the commander fig depending no which you prefer to lead the force. That should bring things closer into balance. The DAs will still have the advantage of better armor across the board, but will lose a bit of offensive punch balancing things a bit better.

Don't double up the minis in DV as that just means the DAs will have an even bigger edge over the chaos side after doubling and the chaos side ends up with 4 elite units and can only legally have 3 in an army. If you want to use all the minis in the DV box the best bet is to total up the points and then just add some stuff to the chaos side until the points line up. Adding either chaos marines or chaos havocs would help the existing DV chaos force immensely, by adding armored bodies to soak fire and adding a bit more of a longer range punch.

Skriker

Best way to balance them

Chaos

Add 20 Cultists to bulalance the Troops
Add a Scourge to the Helbrute to tackle the enemy Dreadnought
Trminators with equvilent equipment (Powerfists, Powersword Champion and Reaper Autocannon, with points left over to spend on Vets)
Add 3 Nurgle Bikers to combat Ravenwing
Add a Sorceror (and/or Dark Apostle if he has/uses the Chaplain)
Count the Lord as having the Murder Sword for AP1 vs the Captain who will likely have 2+ save.

Dark Angels
Add a second Tactical Squad with gear of your choice. Now you have 2 Troops. Either than or replace one Bolter marine with a Sergeant and run 2 Combat Squads
Add Company Veterans (for the Chosen)
Add a Dreadnought of choice for Helbrute

 Deadshot wrote:
Best way to balance them

Chaos

Add a Scourge to the Helbrute to tackle the enemy Dreadnought

What enemy dreadnought? The DAs have no dreadnought in the DV box. Think you might be combining the DV and AoBR boxes together in your head.

Skriker

Deadshot was suggesting to add a Dreadnought to the DA side in his post.

 reiner wrote:
Deadshot was suggesting to add a Dreadnought to the DA side in his post.

Ahh oops.

Skriker

Awesome! Thank you for the suggestions everyone.

If I was to go the Azrael or Belial route to make the Dark Angels force legal out of the box, what's the best way to balance Chaos up to the Dark Angels (aka, only having to buy models for Chaos to make up the difference)? Thanks!

Plague marines with gak loads of plasmas

That is the problem with DV I think . DA army drips in plasma , its is everywhere, on charactrs on bikes , on the tactial . while chaos has 1 MM , plasma pistol on the lord and that is it . if 2 lords are taken and 2 bruts , that is 4 shots to counter 10 terminators and anything from 2 to more character from the DA side depending , if the DA had the plastic chaplain inside or not.

I haven't familiarized myself with the rules yet but I'm assuming plasma cuts through armor saves? And that's why it's important to get more on the Chaos side? Is there anything else in the Chaos arsenal that cuts through heavy armor other than anyone who can take plasma (like the aforementioned plague marines with plasma)?

Its because Chaos has just under 500pts worth of models, if running with stock equipment as specified in the box's little booklet, while the Dark Angels have a significant amount more (The Captain is roughly 100ish, and the Termies are somewhere around the 240ish mark. Add in a Tac Squad loaded with Plasma and a Ravenwing Squad and its already over the Chaos limit, but I'm not sure on exact pointage as I don't play them. That's not even taking into account the Librarian and his powers, or the Chaplain if he's there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes, Plasma cuts through all armour, being Armour Piercing 2 (AP2). Its very good for taking out Termies and Marines which is what the DA are, but for some reason the DA have all the plasma, while the Chaos, who are mostly lightly armoured Cultists, have 1 Plasma pistol.

A good way to balance them up, without spending a whole lot are Plague Marines, an excellent unit in the codex. They are tougher than regular marines and can be loaded with 2 Plasma Guns or Pistols, plus a Pistol on the Champion. They can also be troops by giving the Chaos Lord a Mark of Nurgle which makes him tougher himself, but means he can only join other units with a Mark of Nurgle. This means he can join the Plague Marines but if he wants to join other units they'll need to buy Marks of Nurgle too. Not necessarily bad but if means you have less points to spend on more stuff.