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Hello, I keep going round and round in circles trying to build my Blood Angels army. I've stripped all the paint off my minis and about to re-paint them all in BA. But I still can't decide on my army list. What are peoples suggestions, given what I current own. I don't mind buying extras however I would like to use what I already have. I might also be able to make a minor changes to existing minis.

Captain, lightning claws and storm bolter.
Captain, thunder hammer.
Librarian Termie

10 Termies, with 2 assault cannons.
Dreadnought, Flamer, Assault cannon
8 Vets - Champion, Standard bearer, a couple power swords, power axe, 3 chainswords/pistols
3 Apothecaries

10 Assault marines

30 odd Tactical Marines with bolters
5 Heavies with a Missile Launcher x2, Lascannon, Heavy Bolter, Plasma Cannon
2 Marines with flamers

Rhino x2
Razorback
Predator


As BA have Decent of Angels, I could go down the route of buying another 30 jump marines. But then I don't want to waste my tactical marines. Or I could buy another 3 razorbacks/rhinos and utilise the fast tank ability. It would be nice to put a Death Company in there, but they are expensive for what they are. Without Decent of Angels, might be better in a tank, but then they can't take special/heavy weapons to make relentless useful.

So I just don't know. What would you do?

Cheapest effective(ish) delivery method for dc is a pod. Also makes taking bolters useful for the drop and then you can use relentless in future turns to fire your bolters and charge.
When it comes to your tactical marines you will probably keep using them for a while until you realise its just not worth it, believe me I know your pain, I have about 70 of the beggers, although 40 of them are the old 2nd ed boxed set 1 pose fits all type, I rarely use them!
If you want assault marines I suggest buying the dc boxed set and paint them red. They look better and you get loads of bitz for only a few pounds more.

I've been playing BA for years and I don't think tactical marines are useless. I run a very very tank heavy, almost leaf blower, BA list. I rely on them to battle squad and hold objectives. I'll share but this is the only list I've had any luck with.

HQ

Librarian - 100pt
Force Axe
Shield of Sanguinius
Blood Lance

ELITE

Chaplain - 110pt
Hand Flamer

TROOPS

Tactical Squad - 250pt
Sergeant w/ Combi Plasma
Full 10man
Missile Launcher
Plasma gun
Razorback
Twin Linked Heavy Bolter
Dozer Blade

Assault Squad - 240pt
Sergeant w/ Power Sword
Melta Bomb
Full 10man
Plasma Pistol
Plasma Pistol

Death Company - 470pt
11man
Bolters
Land Raider Redeemer
Pintle Multi Melta

FAST ATTACK

Baal Predator - 155pt
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
Heavy Flamer Sponsons
Hunter Killer Missile
Dozer Blade

Baal Predator - 155pt
Same as above

HEAVY SUPPORT

Vindicator - 160pt
Hunter Killer Missile
Dozer Blade

Vindicator - 160pt
Same as above

Stormraven Gunship - 200pt
Twin Linked Lascannon
Twin Linked Multi Melta

Ok so the break down....it's a super fast list that gets all up in their sh*t right away. Almost too much to deal with. Battle squad the tactical putting 4 bolters and ML on an objective and the Libby, Srg., and plasma gun in the Rback. I cast from the Rback since it has hatches giving all tanks 5+ cover. Assault marines deepstrike. DC in LR with Chaplain go up the middle with Rback behind and the vindis on each side. Flank the edges with the 2 Baal preds...don't forget their scout move 12 inches. Turn 1 unload all HK missiles on 1target if possible because you will likely lose a tank. Try to go 2nd so you can claim the air with your raven. I love the way it plays and with good rolling and smart targeting you can beat or at least give a good game to any list. BAs biggest problem IMO is overpriced basic units but fast tanks are an amazing deal being able to move and still fire 2 weapons at full BS. Tell me what you think.

GET MEPHESTON!

also, for BA Assault marines> Tacs. but. I suggest

2 tacs 10 man w/ missile launchers and flamer.

get a sang priest, (2) w/ jump packs and pop them in squads of assault marines (10 men strong) give the Sgt. power weapon, and the priest power fist. Sgt.takes challenges for priest.

you can use TH/SS terminators as a mobile cover wall for your assault marines (either he shoots the terms or your marines)

turn the apothecaries into sang priests, 5 sternguard w/ melta combis in a drop pod w/ the dreadnaught (turn it into a furioso)

People will argue that their is not enough scoring units but their is too much other stuff to deal with and people tend to forget about a small handful of marines amongst all that armor. Too comment on your stuff.

Blood Angels captains suck but librarians work great though I'm not big on the terminator armor. It really negates BAs biggest strength being speed. I never use terminators in my lists unless I'm messing around I throw them in a land raider.

I would never take a dread as a heavy choice. Too many other better options at around the same cost. If you like dreads because I do think they are an awesome model I would take the furioso or dc dread. They are easy to pop so prepare to use them as a decoy.

I like sternguard vets but not too keen on vanguard. If you are going to pay for them you may as well take DC with JPs. Sternguard drop pod with meltas is devastating.

Apothecaries can be used as sanguinary priest which is the one thing every army should have. I know I don't have one but I've been trying to find the points for one to DS with my assault squad....gives them FnP and furious charge.

I told you how I feel about tactical. They have their uses just don't overload on them. They don't play to BAs strength which like I said is speed. Plus we have to field 10 to get special weapon access.

Rhinos and Rbacks are always useful just not for DC. You want DC in quickly. Everyone knows how good they are and they will be targeted. In my list they are almost Always my MVP. Baal preds and vindis are focus fired while the LR is ignored because of its armor. When they come out they bring the pain. When put with a chaplain you get 44 strength 5 attacks on the charge rerolling everything. You don't need 2 hand weapons...44 rerolled attacks is more then enough to kill anything in cc. Take bolters because they can fire and charge due to relentless.

Predators are ok but once again heavy choices. Baal predators are better because fast attack choice. I love vindis dropping str 10 plates across ranks so I save my heavy spots for them. Plus a lot of people forget the bonus to armor piercing on that gun. You roll 2 dice for penetration taking the highest added to str 10.other then insane cover saves nothing lasts against them....creates a lot of havoc.

More on DC. They are very expensive with JPs at 35 points each I believe. Tactical marines are what 16? So without JPs I believe they are 4 points more per model for +1WS, +1attacks(+3 on the charge), fearless, feel no pain, relentless, and the uber furious charge. One of the best deals in the game. So what if you can't capture objectives...if you are playing death company objectives are a fall back plan, they can still dispute if I remember right.

These are just my opinions...anyone is entitled to think otherwise. By no means are these musts. Ultimately we play this game for fun and too many people lose sight of that. Hope you can pull something useful out of what I've said.

In more recent games i have been doing a Sanguinary Gaurd spam. Looks kinda like this.

--HQ--
Dante

---Elites---
Sanguinary Priest x 3
JP
PW

Furioso Dread
Talons w/ melta
Talons w/Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

----Troops----
Sanguinary Gaurd
Banner
Infernus x 2
Mix of axes and swords

Sanguinary Gaurd
Infernus x 2
PF
2 axe, 2 Sword

Sanguinary Gaurd
Infernus x 2
PF
2 axe, 2 Sword



The above is my base list. I add to it or take away based on what i feel like playing at the time.
Generally its a BAAL or 2, Sniper scouts or dev squads. Sometimes VV for the heroic intervention (used to tie up units)

Lemartes can I just ask, how do you find it running a sang guard backbone to your army? Reason I ask is that I have 5 sang guard units, 3 beautifully painted (not by me!), but I find that they are ridiculously overpriced! Do you get much success with sang guard? If so, what tactics do you use to avoid removing 7 or 8 a turn at 2k points? The most success ive found is in running 2 or 3 vindis and/or a dc to distract the firepower of the opponent away from the sang guard. However, investing so much in distration units often proves counter intuative I find.

sang guard are not competitive. just to expensive for what they get.

i personally find them to be very effective. How to keep them alive is to present a "Juicy" Target and keep them in cover till your ready to use them. I do this with the BAAL's and the Dreadnaught. I generally also keep them in reserve to deepstrike if I can. As for the comment of "they are not competitive" its all in how you use them. When i use them competitavly i use them as bait and tank hunters while my normal assualt squads mop up. At 2k for competitive play 1 or 2 should be enough. 1 goes with Dante along with a priest. People see that gold and just go crazy trying to kill it. And if they don't then they are pretty dangerous. Watch out for S8 AP2 Pie plates though. Thats really the only thing that is gauranteed a kill.

or melta, plasma shots are almost a gaurentee. oh, and volume of fire.

Cheers for that. I'll take your advice that 2 should be enough. More than that and my model count goes down rapidly lol!

i Personally found it works well. I run them with Sang Priests so unless they are STR 8 ap2 shots i don't loose to many.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 raiden wrote:
or melta, plasma shots are almost a gaurentee. oh, and volume of fire.

I never have to many problems with volume and tend to roll well. And for the melta thats why i jump the from cover to cover.

Thanks for everyones comments, it's been a lot of food for thought.

I've decided to go for two(three) armies, a Decent of Angels and A Fast Mech Army, then later I might do a deathwing to give my termies a home.

So what do you think of;

Decent of Angels;
55 Marines all with jump packs.
of which 10 are DC, with Lermates, Reclusiarch and 3 chaplains. So all have Decent of Angels and Liturgies or Blood. A couple hundred attacks on the charge with re-rolls all round. I'll also give them melta bombs and Power fists for armour. Might struggle against heavy armour, but should be fun to play with.


Fast Mech;
2x Vindicators
1x Predator
3x Baal Predator
2x 10 Marines, Flamer, Missile Launcher in Rhinos
Honour Guard and Captain in Razorback
Here I'm assuming I can disembark a combat squad and transport the 2nd combat squad to another objective and both be scoring.

I'll ultimately work towards these two list, but will work with what I have to make a combination of the two, until I buy and paint the missing units.

The second list is cool but I suggest putting 1 assault squad in to snatch a late objective if you have to. a 12in move versus a 6 inch move with 1 turn to go can make a huge difference.

As for the first list. Running that many assault marines I must stress, you NEED Sanguinary Priests. They will die way too fast without any. I would personally cut down to 4 squads of assault marines and drop a chaplain. You could run 3 priests as a single elite choice then spend the other points elsewhere. Make sure to give the priests power fists and jps which rounds them out at like 90-100 points each if i remember right. You accept challenges with the chaplain or sergeant if you want to throw away the challenge and devestate the unit.

AngelusMortis wrote:
The second list is cool but I suggest putting 1 assault squad in to snatch a late objective if you have to. a 12in move versus a 6 inch move with 1 turn to go can make a huge difference.

Do you not think combat squad in a Rhino moving flat is enough? I wanted to keep a theme of just tanks and having some jump marines will spoil it a little.

AngelusMortis wrote:
As for the first list. Running that many assault marines I must stress, you NEED Sanguinary Priests. They will die way too fast without any. I would personally cut down to 4 squads of assault marines and drop a chaplain. You could run 3 priests as a single elite choice then spend the other points elsewhere. Make sure to give the priests power fists and jps which rounds them out at like 90-100 points each if i remember right. You accept challenges with the chaplain or sergeant if you want to throw away the challenge and devestate the unit.

Good idea, I'll do that. Do the priest give themselves Furious Charge? If not it would probably be better to give the serg the Power first and let the priest take a lightning claw.

rhysgm wrote:

AngelusMortis wrote:
The second list is cool but I suggest putting 1 assault squad in to snatch a late objective if you have to. a 12in move versus a 6 inch move with 1 turn to go can make a huge difference.

Do you not think combat squad in a Rhino moving flat is enough? I wanted to keep a theme of just tanks and having some jump marines will spoil it a little.

One thing you will find with BA mech lists is that you NEED assault squads to keep the tanks alive against a lot of armies or at least to kill the unit that just blew one up. Fire dragon drop? Send the assault squad! Veil of darkness led stormteks? Send the assault squad! Podding sternies? Send the assault squad! Close combat monster.... errrr... why havn't you dealt with it yet? Sacrafice the assault squad!

Also in the first list as Angelus wrote - priests will help! Although you can save a few points and comfortably take 2 per 20. And yes priests are affected by their chalice - it's why corbulo is ace at tanking. I tend to find arming the priest and sarge the same works well as then if you deny a challenge, the opponent can't challange out 'the best' or only effective weapon for the job.

I understand what you are saying but I'm pretty sure, may be wrong, if the squad moves to enter the rhino then the rhino wouldn't be able to move until next turn. I never enter a rhino once I've reached my destination so I may be way off here. Regardless Jump packs are just so manouverable. Dont have to worry about buildings or terrain getting in the way, just jump over it.

I love corbulo...if only he could take a jump pack he would probably be the best named character in the BA codex. If you want to run an all tactical squad he is a great addition to them. 4+ FnP is boss and he can take out tanks with his chainsword.

@Poly Ranger I'm 99% sure that the opponent does not get to choose who they are challenging. They issue the challenge with whoever they choose from their unit. You accept with or deny with whatever single model you choose. He can't say "I challenge your Priest". He simply issues a challenge then you decide who takes it. You NEVER want a priest accepting a challenge unless the character would wipe your unit and you have no other model to accept it. Thats why you arm the priest with the beast mode strikes last instant death issuing melee weapon and give whoever else you want something like a power sword for ap3.

You are totally correct. But that is not what I meant. What I meant was that if you want to deny the challenge altogether the opponent will then get to chose which weapon is challenged out. Take a tervigon for instance. The nid player offers a challenge, who ever accepts is paste, so you deny. Now if you only have 1 pf in the unit the nid player will decide to disallow the pf to attack, if however you have 2 pfs, you still have one model who can reliably hurt the tervigon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All due to the fact that the opponent choses which model does not get to attack if you deny the challenge.