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Recently watched a college game between Cal and Oregon State, where the commentators were talking about the coaches seeking aid from the Rugby club at the school for tackling technique. Boise State's football coach has done the same, even going so far as to have a tackling clinic put on by the local rugby club, and thus far, seems to be paying off for his team, in the number of missed tackles and concussions sustained by his players.
On the flip side of that, I think that people like ESPN, and Fox Sports are continuing to harm the game, by putting the big hits that are leading to these sorts of injuries on their "Top Play" segments, which lead to youngsters wanting to emulate that, and also the older gents to continue to hit like that, in an attempt at being on one of those national level broadcasts.
Doubled sided issue. I don't feel bad for the guys out there making hundreds of thousands to millions facing this. How many military member suffer worse, with nothing near the same level of compensation?
For the younger players though, things gotta get more stringent about their safety. Can't have kids suffering brain damage for playing an after school sport.
djones520 wrote: Doubled sided issue. I don't feel bad for the guys out there making hundreds of thousands to millions facing this. How many military member suffer worse, with nothing near the same level of compensation?
As a soon-to-be-former-military type, I agree with this, but with our newest generation helmets, they are gathering impact data in a joint study with hockey, football and us to better understand the nature of head trauma.
djones520 wrote: Doubled sided issue. I don't feel bad for the guys out there making hundreds of thousands to millions facing this. How many military member suffer worse, with nothing near the same level of compensation?
As a soon-to-be-former-military type, I agree with this, but with our newest generation helmets, they are gathering impact data in a joint study with hockey, football and us to better understand the nature of head trauma.
Which is awesome. My last deployment, they did a pretty extensive cognitive test on me, in order to be able to measure any damage that may occur if I had suffered an injury. My first deployment, there was nothing at all like that. Makes me glad to see that we have been taking the threat of trauma more seriously over the years. And it's good we're working with other organizations who deal with similar issues, to try to help limit it.
Which is awesome. My last deployment, they did a pretty extensive cognitive test on me, in order to be able to measure any damage that may occur if I had suffered an injury. My first deployment, there was nothing at all like that. Makes me glad to see that we have been taking the threat of trauma more seriously over the years. And it's good we're working with other organizations who deal with similar issues, to try to help limit it.
lol, they did the same cognitive test on me prior to 2nd deployment, but the wonderful fort carson managed to lose that test, and had nothing to compare the post deployment test with... so now in MEB, they have no paperwork to prove my TBI
Which is awesome. My last deployment, they did a pretty extensive cognitive test on me, in order to be able to measure any damage that may occur if I had suffered an injury. My first deployment, there was nothing at all like that. Makes me glad to see that we have been taking the threat of trauma more seriously over the years. And it's good we're working with other organizations who deal with similar issues, to try to help limit it.
lol, they did the same cognitive test on me prior to 2nd deployment, but the wonderful fort carson managed to lose that test, and had nothing to compare the post deployment test with... so now in MEB, they have no paperwork to prove my TBI
That sucks. My last physical with my Doc, I learned that the AF is getting serious about documentation now. EVERYTHING is supposed to be written down now, to help ease our VA claims. Should be helpful when I go in for mine. Wonder how much I'll get for a defective toe...
Seeing as American Football unsurprisingly isn't all that popular over here, I have some related questions. Watched some highlights on YouTube and are there no rules against:
- Lifting a player and dropping him?
- Clotheslining a player?
While I'm at it, saw a tackle where 3 guys collaborated in lifting 1 guy over their shoulders like a WWF move. How is that allowed?
Evil_Toast wrote: Seeing as American Football unsurprisingly isn't all that popular over here, I have some related questions. Watched some highlights on YouTube and are there no rules against:
- Lifting a player and dropping him?
- Clotheslining a player?
While I'm at it, saw a tackle where 3 guys collaborated in lifting 1 guy over their shoulders like a WWF move. How is that allowed?
You cannot "clothesline" another player, it is a personal foul and if it is severe enough, the player could be ejected from the game (and most likely suffer a game suspension and monetary fine regardless).
Yes, a player can lift another player and force him to the ground. However, if an official deems it excessive (as in the offending player was deliberately trying to cause bodily harm), the tackler could be flagged for it. As far a lifting a guy over their shoulders and slamming like a WWF move, I wouldn't think that would go unpunished.
Remember, just because a player does something and it makes a highlight reel doesn't mean that it is okay. Depending on when it happened, the player was probably flagged in game and a fine and/or suspension was handed down from the league after the game.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Yeah, the reason the fines aren't made a big deal of is because the players can afford them. A few thousand is nothing when you are getting paid 6+ figures.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Only time I've seen fines levied due to violence in the NHL, it's been in conjunction with game suspensions, and the fine coincides with the amount of income that would have been earned with those game. So if a player is suspended 5 games, he basically forfeits his pay for that amount of time, which can be a big chunk of change for some of these guys.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Not being able to buy a new sports car for a couple months really sucks.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Head injuries in the NHL, NFL/CFL are only a major issue at the moment because;
a) We as a society have finally realised that high speeds + direct attacks at the opposing player's head lead to brain trauma. (who'd a thunk it?! )
b) The on-ice/field officials either miss the infraction or else don't consistently call it for what it is.
c) The league disciplinary body is the biggest problem of all as they don't hand out meaningful suspensions, they allow appeals to made of suspensions AND they refuse to bring in proper rules to deal with the lack of respect towards opposing players. (the NHL is super guilty of this!)
Having myself suffered 8 concussions from playing hockey, (not to mention coming within about an inch of being paralysed), it is highly infuriating especially to see known repeat offenders just constantly get a slight slap on the wrist of say 2-3 games, maybe 4-5 at most, while you're out for at least 2-3 weeks to perhaps 2-3 months at a time. (if not the rest of the season)
And you're honestly never the same after suffering a major (grade 3) concussion.
Of course, pro athletes at least have their millions of dollars and can sue for league compensation, unlike the rest of us lowly mortals.
Which is awesome. My last deployment, they did a pretty extensive cognitive test on me, in order to be able to measure any damage that may occur if I had suffered an injury. My first deployment, there was nothing at all like that. Makes me glad to see that we have been taking the threat of trauma more seriously over the years. And it's good we're working with other organizations who deal with similar issues, to try to help limit it.
lol, they did the same cognitive test on me prior to 2nd deployment, but the wonderful fort carson managed to lose that test, and had nothing to compare the post deployment test with... so now in MEB, they have no paperwork to prove my TBI
The whole time I lived in the Springs, I've heard nothing but problems with Ft. Carson medical losing things.
I'd heard and seen nothing but good with Peterson's and the Academy's documentations, though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/26 17:56:25
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Grey Templar wrote: Not being able to buy a new sports car for a couple months really sucks.
Because they make more money than you means they shouldn't be allowed to do their job as safely as possible right?
There are serious problems in professional sports and they are finally being dealt with (albeit slowly). Fines will go up, suspensions will become more severe, and hopefully repeat offenders will begin to be banned. All of these are good things, by the way. The NHL/NFL can still maintain an "enjoyable" amount of violence without seeing guys end up in broken heaps on the ice/turf.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
djones520 wrote: Doubled sided issue. I don't feel bad for the guys out there making hundreds of thousands to millions facing this. How many military member suffer worse, with nothing near the same level of compensation?
As a soon-to-be-former-military type, I agree with this, but with our newest generation helmets, they are gathering impact data in a joint study with hockey, football and us to better understand the nature of head trauma.
My cousin is actually a part of the team working on this research at Johns Hopkins. It's awesome work they're doing.
Grey Templar wrote: Not being able to buy a new sports car for a couple months really sucks.
Because they make more money than you means they shouldn't be allowed to do their job as safely as possible right?
There are serious problems in professional sports and they are finally being dealt with (albeit slowly). Fines will go up, suspensions will become more severe, and hopefully repeat offenders will begin to be banned. All of these are good things, by the way. The NHL/NFL can still maintain an "enjoyable" amount of violence without seeing guys end up in broken heaps on the ice/turf.
I think you misunderstood me. I don't think football shouldn't be safer, it definitely should.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Not being able to buy a new sports car for a couple months really sucks.
Because they make more money than you means they shouldn't be allowed to do their job as safely as possible right?
There are serious problems in professional sports and they are finally being dealt with (albeit slowly). Fines will go up, suspensions will become more severe, and hopefully repeat offenders will begin to be banned. All of these are good things, by the way. The NHL/NFL can still maintain an "enjoyable" amount of violence without seeing guys end up in broken heaps on the ice/turf.
I think you misunderstood me. I don't think football shouldn't be safer, it definitely should.
What I got out of it was that you were criticizing the fines as being ineffectual to curbing the behavior.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
And they are, but hopefully that will change. ScootyPuff seemed to think I thought injuries were ok because they make so much money.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Its at a level where you can look at the fine as an acceptable price for whatever the infraction was.
Sort of like paying to take your opponent's players out of the game.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
djones520 wrote: Doubled sided issue. I don't feel bad for the guys out there making hundreds of thousands to millions facing this. How many military member suffer worse, with nothing near the same level of compensation?
As a soon-to-be-former-military type, I agree with this, but with our newest generation helmets, they are gathering impact data in a joint study with hockey, football and us to better understand the nature of head trauma.
My cousin is actually a part of the team working on this research at Johns Hopkins. It's awesome work they're doing.
I know in the Documentary "Head Games" much of the ground breaking research was being done at UMass, IIRC. And at the time it was kicking off, the NFL was seriously trying to brush it under the rug.
Having immersed myself completely in Rugby Union, I feel that the rules there are significantly better in regards to the concussion issues that plague American Football.
djones520 wrote: Doubled sided issue. I don't feel bad for the guys out there making hundreds of thousands to millions facing this. How many military member suffer worse, with nothing near the same level of compensation?
As a soon-to-be-former-military type, I agree with this, but with our newest generation helmets, they are gathering impact data in a joint study with hockey, football and us to better understand the nature of head trauma.
My cousin is actually a part of the team working on this research at Johns Hopkins. It's awesome work they're doing.
I know in the Documentary "Head Games" much of the ground breaking research was being done at UMass, IIRC. And at the time it was kicking off, the NFL was seriously trying to brush it under the rug.
Having immersed myself completely in Rugby Union, I feel that the rules there are significantly better in regards to the concussion issues that plague American Football.
I talked to Chris and I was actually a little bit wrong. They're working on improved ballistic resistant materials for the undercarriages of vehicles with IEDs in mind. I knew they were doing some head trauma research too, but apparently it wasn't entirely related. Whoops!
Having immersed myself completely in Rugby Union, I feel that the rules there are significantly better in regards to the concussion issues that plague American Football.
It is hard to compare the two, as they are very different games.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
I remember reading something about spinal issues being more frequent in rugby, and that the amount of pressure put on ones back in a scrum is greater then anyone expected when they started measuring it.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Grey Templar wrote: Not being able to buy a new sports car for a couple months really sucks.
Because they make more money than you means they shouldn't be allowed to do their job as safely as possible right?
There are serious problems in professional sports and they are finally being dealt with (albeit slowly). Fines will go up, suspensions will become more severe, and hopefully repeat offenders will begin to be banned. All of these are good things, by the way. The NHL/NFL can still maintain an "enjoyable" amount of violence without seeing guys end up in broken heaps on the ice/turf.
I think you misunderstood me. I don't think football shouldn't be safer, it definitely should.
No, I understood you "they have enough money so the fines don't matter" attitude just fine. That idea aside, you fine a guy $50,000+ for a hit and suspend him a game or two (which he won't get paid for), he'll notice that money is gone. Dashon Goldson was fined $100,000 in week 2 for an illegal hit and I'm sure he realized he just just a lot of money. There are guys that fines and suspensions won't fix, Ndamukong Suh is a prime example of that. He's been fined 4 times for a total of $209,000 (not including forfeited pay for suspended games) and at this point people like him just need to be weeded out. His problems extend beyond hits that are now considered illegal, he's just a dirty player all around.
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
Having immersed myself completely in Rugby Union, I feel that the rules there are significantly better in regards to the concussion issues that plague American Football.
It is hard to compare the two, as they are very different games.
when it comes to tackling, it is more similar than you think... If you took out what amounts to shoulder charging in American Football and enforced a use of arms in tackling rule, as they do in rugby, IMO, could go quite a long way to making things safer. And if people don't think its possible to lay a good hit on a guy without using arms, look at some of the recent matches in Premiership/Heineken Cup, guys like Courtney Lawes and Samu Manoa are beastly tacklers and routinely end up on hitting highlight reals for rugby, and play within the confines of their rules.
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