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Hi All.

What advice would you give to a novice of both wargames and warmachine in picking there first army. This preferably include a way to get an army that isn't too expensive but is quite easy to pick up the game with.

It will likely be a while before I manage to purchase this hypothetical army but I thought I would ask anyway.

Thanks

Well what sort of grabs your attention when it comes to armies that you'd like to collect. Realistic sort of gear, such that you would expect to see on an industrial age/medieval/dark age human? More alien things which look either a bit too high tech for humans, or just subtly wrong?

Well really the most important question would be this; Pick one of the following;

1) Giant monsters with big gnashy teeth/claws/tentacles/weapons which can destroy almost anything they touch
2) Giant robots with big smashy fists/hammers/swords/guns which can destroy almost anything they touch

That's probably most important, followed by the aesthetic question from above, then we can get into picking an army that suits those criteria

Any of the battleboxes are a cheap way to get right into the action.

Add a unit or a couple solos and you have a ready to go 15 point army, which is plenty to learn the basics of the game with. Once you have that down you can start focusing on optimization.

Battleboxes are all $50 and contain $80-100 worth of models depending on the particular box.

Word of warning, the battleboxes are not of equal competitive stature, but that won't be enough to make a difference if you are just starting out.



Because the game is quite balanced the decision for what faction you want can be based purely on playstyle and aesthetic preferences.

Here is a link to the PP faction descriptions for Warmachine and Hordes respectively.

http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/welcome-to-warmachine

http://privateerpress.com/hordes/monstrous-miniatures-combat

Giant robots I think. But its very close.

In terms of aesthetic I like quite a lot of Warmahordes tuff. Cygnar look good, so do menthoth. Also like the look of troll bloods and skorne.

Well, Cygnar by itself isn't a very tough melee faction. Their melee units tend to be specialist in nature and a bit flimsy unless they specialize in defense. Their melee jacks are quite strong and very respectable defense with usually a gimick or two. Their true strengths tend to be at ranged combat. Black 13th gets a lot of work and is one of the best ranged units in the game despite being only 3 models.

Menoth is all about synergy and interdependence. Their jacks unsupported are behind the curve of power significantly. With buffs, they break the curve off and beat you to death with it. They have some of the finest melee units and jacks this side of the game, but they pay for it. Most of their special abilities and rules are defensive in nature with a lot of "I can't let you do that Star Fox!"

Trolls are a very tough faction (ba dun tish!). Nearly every unit/caster has tough and their warbeasts regenerate HP. They too are very synergistic in play style. If you want an army that refuses to die, Trolls.

Skorne is a very aggressive faction. They have the award for the highest potential damage roll for a single attack in the game. Again a very interdependent faction, their beast handlers are a godsend and on par with choir for being the most powerful support in the game. Their beasts start slow, but if you look in the right places, you can turn a 4 inch movement into a 13 inch charge range. They have an odd mix of defensive and offensive units that are highly specialized. They also coined a term: Skornergey, which stands for anti-synergy. It mainly applies to pHexris as many of his abilities conflict with one another because of the way models die in this game (disabled -> boxed -> destroyed).

This game can very difficult as far as just getting started and picking a faction simply because they are all good and competitive. You cannot make a wrong choice here. We can give you a run down on themes for each faction and their general styles but it really comes down to what you like most. You can check out battlecollege for some general concepts of the factions.

Cygnar is more advanced industry wise than the other factions. They utilize alot of well built firearms and have technology that lets them hurl huge surges of lightning at their enemies.

Trollkin generally field alot of rugged medium based infantry and have a large number of support units that buff other units. They are seen as underdogs, with many small villages coming together to resist oppressors encroaching on their land. They wield ancient mystical powers of the earth and are allied with the savage dire trolls which act as their heavy warbeasts. They have very little technology, in fact, most of their "advanced" weapons come from trading with Cygnar. They have lots of make-shift weaponry - their big siege warbeast is a dire troll that hurls flaming barrels of gun powder.

Menoth is the holy zealot faction. They are out to convert everyone to their faith and kill everyone who refuses. Their units are generally inferior to other faction's units, but become very good with their numerous support models. They synergize well but start falling apart if you can take out their support models. They also are the only faction with wide spread access to a fuel source that allows them to use fire based weapons such as flame throwers, rockets, and grenades.

Skorne is basically a race of ancient elf vampires that draw their power from inflicting pain and suffering on others and from the souls of their fallen comrades. They enslave, torture, and train a species of massive elephant like creature called a titan and use them as their warbeasts. They also have some awesome support for their beasts and their titans have the highest damage output ability in the game out of any warbeast/warjack.

Every faction brings mixed forces to the field. Every faction can field warjack/warbeast heavy lists or infantry heavy lists, but some of them do it better than others. For instance, Khador has 1 warcaster that fields a warjack heavy list, all others generally field infantry centric lists. Menoth generally fields several warjacks in every list. Trolls have warcasters that can do both - Madrak generally fields alot of infantry, while doomshaper usually fields multiple dire trolls. Nearly every skorne list I have seen fields a pair of titans at least (their warbeast support is very good), but their infantry can also hold their own with little to no support. Cygnar pretty much always fields a wide mixture of very tactical infantry who fulfill specific roles as well as very capable and well rounded warjacks.

Thanks for the information so far guys. I do really like the look of the Merc faction too but I hear they are not really much good to play as a separate faction.

I hear that the battle group and black 13th makes a great starter army for Cygnar.

I am actually in the same spot the OP is with deciding what to get and what things mean. Will the MKII core rulebook explain the difference between "P" "Epic" etc? I have heard in many videos people call units for instance, "Epic Doomshaper" or "P Doomshaper". From what I understand this is a fluff thing, but does the model come with all the cards? As I assume they are different...

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I am actually in the same spot the OP is with deciding what to get and what things mean. Will the MKII core rulebook explain the difference between "P" "Epic" etc? I have heard in many videos people call units for instance, "Epic Doomshaper" or "P Doomshaper". From what I understand this is a fluff thing, but does the model come with all the cards? As I assume they are different...

Epic characters are just differant rules and models for the same character.

Is the Evolution rule book needed for them? Or are their rules included on the cards in the box?

All warmachine/hordes miniatures come with their rules.

Should someone buy the books before ordering models since you can't tell how many points they are?

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Should someone buy the books before ordering models since you can't tell how many points they are?

Looking about the internet/ NQ will give you a load of clues on point values.

What force are you leaning towards strengthofthedragon2?

 carlos13th wrote:
What force are you leaning towards strengthofthedragon2?

He seems to be intersted in trollbloods.

Yeah, trollbloods or Cygnar those are the two that catch my fancy. I didn't mean to thread jack though from the OP but I have lots of questions. I am mainly interested in the painting/modeling if new stuff (instead of 40K stuff). The PP models are so full of life and pose quite the challenge in painting them to bring that life out... But first things first, which items to buy... Will the online rules on the PP site be sufficient to play games outside of the starter set?

Epic vs prime war casters are just different models with different rules for the same character. It represents story progression.

pKreoss was High Exempler, then the previous Grand Exemplar was killed and he was promoted to Grand Exemplar. Then he was again promoted to Intercessor for his third incarnation. All three versions have different models and rules. No restrictions, other than you can't field the same character twice in an army, exist for epic or prime models.


Yes, the free rules from the PP website will be sufficient to play games, although you will want to get a rulebook eventually. You should also download the Steamroller scenerio packet each year. Its the tournament scenerios they put out each year for competitive play, but even casually the game is designed around scenerio play. Just playing assassination each time is no fun for certain casters.

If you are interested in trolls, either buy the battle box, or a warlock and a few beasts that catch your eye.

pDoomshaper, a Mauler, an Axer, and an Impaler would be a solid foundation for a troll list. After you are comfortable with the game, you can get some other stuff. A Stone keeper unit, Kreil warriors, a Bomber, Mulg the Ancient, and a Stone scribe would all be solid additions.

The starter boxes come with a short leaflet with a rundown on the most basic rules. Tbh this is enough to play for quite a while especially because most rules are explained on the cards themseleves.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Yeah, trollbloods or Cygnar those are the two that catch my fancy. I didn't mean to thread jack though from the OP but I have lots of questions. I am mainly interested in the painting/modeling if new stuff (instead of 40K stuff). The PP models are so full of life and pose quite the challenge in painting them to bring that life out... But first things first, which items to buy... Will the online rules on the PP site be sufficient to play games outside of the starter set?

Dont worry about that. Ask away. Im sure any thing you ask will be interesting to me too.

Other things you will want to get are card sleeves and dry erase markers so you can mark damage on your cards.

You'll also want the template set as well as your faction token set. The template set comes with a spray and blast template, as well as a handy dandy marker which has 1/2" melee range, 2" reach range, and 1" cover indicators.

The token set is also very handy. It has tons of tokens to mark fury or focus points and things to indicate spells and special effects. All in visually pleasing faction colors and engravings.

Does it matter which token set I get? I have noticed there are some called "epic" tokens. Again, this seems to have been related to some kind of Special edition or something. It is definatley exciting to learn about a new game system.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Does it matter which token set I get? I have noticed there are some called "epic" tokens. Again, this seems to have been related to some kind of Special edition or something. It is definatley exciting to learn about a new game system.

In general, any token set will do. In Mk1, there were different token sets for different warcasters, but in Mk2, that was narrowed down to one per faction. They're convenient, but not essential, you can get by with scraps of paper, and spare dice to keep track of focus or fury points. Each pack has a different focus depending on what they're more likely to use (ie, the Troll one has a lot of knockdown tokens, because their Tough rule means a lot of their guys will be knocked down, the Protectorate one has a lot of fire tokens).

Two good resources online are:
forwardkommander.com
battlecollege.wikispaces.com

Battle College will let you read what models and units do. While there are a few errors here and there, it is pretty generally useful.

Forward Kommander lets you build lists, so you can play around with certain configurations and tiers. Some of the tier lists don't work perfectly, but over all you can really play around and decide what lists you want to run, and what units you can squeeze in.

Of course, there are smart phone and tablet aps that do the same thing, but those two are free. You will spend enough on the rule book, templates, tokens and maybe a faction book (which isn't necessary!) that you might want to save a bit ahead of time.


As to choosing factions, I can't give a ton of advice, but a little.

First, definitely choose a faction you like the look of, and try to get a grip on the play styles of each. Not only of the faction, but of the different casters. (Battle College helps there, as well as forums.) Different casters can really change the way a faction list plays, but over all if you like tanky armies you are going to be very limited if you pick a glass hammer army like Circle, for instance.
But seriously, think hard about aesthetics and backstory, etc. Warmahordes has a long learning curve, so for a little while a lot of the fun is going to be learning the rules and admiring your little metal men as they get slaughtered over and over. You really want to be able to care about the faction and feel it. It also doesn't hurt that PP does a nice job making fluff approximate game behavior, so if you like how a faction's fluff works, you might well like how they work on the table.

As to specific factions, I play Circle primarily. They have tons of tricks, and so probably have a bit steeper learning curve than other factions. On the plus side, they make you a better player faster, but you pay for it early on. It is also easier to surprise your opponents with things they have never seen. Biggest downside is probably that we lack weapon master infantry (sort of) and heavy infantry isn't really our thing in the same way trolls and some Skorne lists pull it off. You will never hear any other faction get blamed for having over powered traffic cones, however.

Mercs can be... touchy. The divisions of their lists are a bit awkward, with some jacks only able to be taken by Rhulic (dwarf) casters, etc. Usually merc lists take advantage of their cool solos (their raison d'etre) with some other synergies to win. There is a pretty good reason you don't see merc turn outs to things like WTC very often though. Personally, I think mercs (and minions for that matter) make a fun second army as you can swap in parts into your Big 8 forces. Picking up solos and units to boost your normal Big 8 list and sooner or later you are just a few models from a second army, that's pretty cool.

Best advice though is to study ahead of time, ask lots of questions, and find an army you love to look at and read about, because studying and reading about armies is the best way to get good at the game.

I am having a hard time understanding "Tiers". Who makes them up? From what I can tell each warcaster/warlock has his own tier? Do people only play with certain tiers or is it a way to regulate list (like at a tournament). Basically, these are just unfamiliar terms. It seems similar to a force organization chart.

Ok there are 2 ways to build a list. 1 is with the conventional (I can't think of a better word) rules that mean you follow the point cost and FA (field allowance) on the card, not exceeding the FA of any unit/jack and not exceeding the points value of the game.

Theme forces are a way of building a list that uses 'tiers'. It restricts your access to certain units, but in turn as you fulfill the requirements of the higher tiers, you get benefits which can include increased FA, starting role bonuses, spells beginning in play, point reductions, etc. So basically trading off choice of units for some buffs to the army. Some of these are really nice, some are a bit less useful.

Some tournaments are themed forces tournaments, and require you to use theme forces of a certain tier or higher, others just use regular list building. I'm sure there are some that disallow theme forces, but I'm not 100% on how the big tournaments do it.

And as for force org chart, think of it more as the old 0-1, 0-3, etc limitations that were placed on units in older codexes.

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Should someone buy the books before ordering models since you can't tell how many points they are?

*cough*Forward Kommander *cough*

http://www.forwardkommander.com/

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
I am having a hard time understanding "Tiers". Who makes them up? From what I can tell each warcaster/warlock has his own tier? Do people only play with certain tiers or is it a way to regulate list (like at a tournament). Basically, these are just unfamiliar terms. It seems similar to a force organization chart.

Tiers are a part of theme lists. Theme lists are an optional set of rules for casters. Normally , you pick a points limit, grab a caster, take stuff from your factions roster (entirely up to you) and play.

Theme lists are more akin to playing farsight enclave tau in the previous codex, or even craft world elder, if you go back that far! Essentially, theme lists are like these. They're alternative builds with a specific set of options and restrictions. All casters have at least one 'theme' list with an in-built set of restrictions in terms of what units they can take, but also with a corresponding set of advantages. 'Tiers' are a term used to define those sets of restrictions. And all 'theme' lists have four levels. Each us more restrictive, but each gives further boons as well. Think farsight. Fewer tanks, more limited regular options, but more options in other places.

Basically You meet the criteria for the first tier of a theme list (typicalily you can only take x, y, z) then you can specialise further by aiming fir even more specific sets of restrictions.

For example, take butcher 1s theme.
First tier restricts him to non character warjacks, kossires, widowmakers, men o war, winter guard, and a specific set of solos.
Second tier requires two men o war units.
Tier three requires four or more solos.
The fourth requires three warjacks without ranged weapons.

If you fulfil the requirements of the first tier and inky take them, men o war get a points discount, and you can take more man hunters (beyond the normal limits). If your list has two men o war units (second tier), you get a speed bonus during your first turn. If you have four solos (third tier) you can redeploy all solos after both players have fully deployed. If you meet tier four, your warjacks basically get warmachines version of infiltrate.

Bear in mind, theme lists are optional. You don't have to field them, and even if you do, there is no requirement to go all the way. They're a fun addition to the game, and so me tourneys are theme list tournaments. I do t generally like the statements that they're "fluff" armies - essentially, all lists in this gene are fluff armies - there us no distinction between fluff and power lists - you have lists, full stop. However, while not fluff armies, they are themed armies - that's the whole point.

 Surtur wrote:

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Should someone buy the books before ordering models since you can't tell how many points they are?

*cough*Forward Kommander *cough*

http://www.forwardkommander.com/

This looks great! I just need to play with it a little bit to figure it out, but it looks really helpful!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So playing around with that software I am noticing something, are the 'casters/warlocks free? And then you pay for units? It seems the math doesn't quite add up...

Todd

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

strengthofthedragon2 wrote:
Should someone buy the books before ordering models since you can't tell how many points they are?

*cough*Forward Kommander *cough*

http://www.forwardkommander.com/

This looks great! I just need to play with it a little bit to figure it out, but it looks really helpful!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So playing around with that software I am noticing something, are the 'casters/warlocks free? And then you pay for units? It seems the math doesn't quite add up...

Todd

Yes, as you always need to have a warcaster to play, but also the 'Caster/'lock comes with Warjack/Warbeast points, in which that is how many points he/she can use towards a 'jack/'beast for free. The Rest you have to pay for,