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+++ Gone to the Birds (2500pts) +++
+ Lords +
* Anointed of Asuryan (545pts); Khaine's Ring of Fury, Dawnstone, Enchanted Shield, Ogre Blade, Frostheart Phoenix
+ Heroes +
* Caradryan (420pts); Ashtari
* Mage (155pts); Staff of Sorcery, Lore of High Magic, Wizard Level 2
+ Core +
* Ellyrian Reavers (105pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers, Harbinger
* Ellyrian Reavers (105pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers, Harbinger
* Ellyrian Reavers (105pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers, Harbinger
* Ellyrian Reavers (105pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers, Harbinger
* Ellyrian Reavers (105pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers, Harbinger
* Ellyrian Reavers (105pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers, Harbinger
+ Special +
* Phoenix Guard (270pts); Keeper of the Flame, Musician, 15x Phoenix Guard, Lichebone Pennant
+ Rare +
* Frostheart Phoenix (240pts)
* Frostheart Phoenix (240pts)

So who needs large blocks of troops when you have 4 phoenices and a bunch of redirectors. The idea behind this list is to overwhelm 1 unit at a time, wipe them out, and then move on to the next. The mass of redirectors will hopefully help with this. I am pretty much hard countered by mind razor though. Is there any way to run 4x phoenices at sub 3000 pts levels? Please give me some advice, thanks.

I'd stick the lord on a flame phoenix.
The general returning to life is too awesome to pass up; and you already have 2 other frost phoenixes.

-Matt

Agreed, 2 and 2 on the phoenixes especially for lord rez

 ansacs wrote:
. The idea behind this list is to overwhelm 1 unit at a time, wipe them out, and then move on to the next.

The problem with this plan is that, this edition, it won't work. You can charge 3 Phoenixes in and kill dozens of troops, only to be held because the enemy is steadfast. Then your opponent will pile his other units into combat and overwhelm you with ranks and attacks. Or, as you say, hold you up until he can get a decent buff off. Which won't be so hard, since you've only got a level 2 Mage. You haven't even got any nasty spells of your own to help you take out massed infantry. And you've got no BSB.

I understand that this army might not be intended to be competitive, and I appreciate the effort at a different list but, unless you know your opponent is going to be bringing a similarly alternative army, the battle is likely lost before it has begun, and you probably won't have a good time doing so.

Try running the following:

In your Lords, have a Lvl 4 Archmage with the Book of Hoeth and an Anointed with the Ogre Blade/Reaver Bow + Golden Crown on a Flamespyre Phoenix. That puts you exactly on 750, which is fine in a 3k game. If that's too large for you, then I'm afraid you'll have to stick with Caradyran instead of the Anointed.

In Rare, take two Frosthearts and two Eagles. This will fit in a 2400 game. And there's your 3 Phoenixes.

In Core, take a single unit of Reavers. That, combined with the Eagles should give you enough chaff drops. Take a second unit, if you really want. Spend the rest of your Core on a nice big block of Spearmen.

In your Special, you're free to do what you want, but again, I'd recommend more Infantry.

In Heroes, if you want to go for a 2400/2500 point game, and hence have to stick with Caradyran, then I'm afraid you'll have to forego a Scroll Caddy for a BSB (which you really need) and just have to bear the brunt of the enemy's magic, though the Book should help.

That should give you a nice, themed list that can still deal with other armies fairly well.

Thanks for the advice. I already pretty much resigned myself that a lord level caster would be the minimum requirement for the list to function. You are also right in that while I can win without troop blocks it is significantly easier if you have 1-2 blocks to break steadfast for you. What do you think of this list;

+++ Gone to the Birds 2 (2498pts) +++
+ Lords +
* Archmage (275pts); Book of Hoeth, Lore of High Magic, Wizard Level 4
+ Heroes +
* Caradryan (420pts); Ashtari
* Noble (164pts); Dragon Armour (Fireborn), Great Weapon, BSB, Banner of the World Dragon
+ Core +
* Ellyrian Reavers (95pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers
* Ellyrian Reavers (95pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers
* Ellyrian Reavers (95pts); Bows and Spears, 5x Ellyrian Reavers
* Spearmen (255pts); Musician, Sentinel, 25x Spearmen, Standard Bearer
* Spearmen (264pts); Musician, Sentinel, 26x Spearmen, Standard Bearer
+ Special +
* Phoenix Guard (270pts); Keeper of the Flame, Musician, 16x Phoenix Guard, Standard Bearer
+ Rare +
* Flamespyre Phoenix (225pts)
* Frostheart Phoenix (240pts)
* Great Eagle (50pts)
* Great Eagle (50pts)

That's looking a lot better. I only really would recommend a few tweaks.

I still don't think that 3 units of Reavers are necessary. You're 54 points over on Core, so I'd drop one unit of Reavers, add in enough Spearmen to take you to min core, then spend the rest on a few more Phoenix Guard. That PG unit is just a little too small for my liking.

I'd perhaps have rethink of your Lore on your Archmage. I'd recommend a Lore with a nasty spell that can be useful in taking down large blocks of infantry and while High Magic does have Conflagration, it tends to only work best on low-toughness and low armour units, such as Skaven. It depends what your meta is like. And again, while Walk Between Worlds is awesome with Pheonixes, I still think other lores have more merit overall. Beasts works well with all your... beasts and the buffs are good in general (getting Savage Beast off on Caradyran would be funny); Life is great for keeping your Infantry alive as well as having Dwellers to take out enemy hordes and an Attribute that could heal your Phoenixes and Heavens has some generally useful hexes/augments and is great for taking out enemy war machines and enemy fliers which will really help out your Phoenixes. Some food for thought.

Finally, where are you putting your characters? I'm assuming Mage with Phoenix Guard and BSB with a Spearmen block?

No love for reavers? I can see the merits of your suggestion but I really do live the reaver's harassment and redirecting abilities.

I was also thinking about switching to life. If I can get throne it would become incredible. Additionally the ability to get off lots of low PD spells would allow me to regenerate wounds on my pheonices.

I was thinking the mage would stay in the phenix guard most of the time and only go into the spears if someone manages to kill them off. The BSB will probably be in the bigger block of spears most of the time but I might switch them out if I need to throw a 6 PD spell or the opponent starts targeting the mages unit with too much magic. I plan to keep the PG within BSB range of the spear blocks but behind.